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[TOT] Sengoku 1560

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario Creation' started by Dadais, Feb 11, 2022.

  1. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    After spending tens of hours in the span of few days in the scenario testing and lua code for TES Stormcloak Rebellion, I need to escape few days from it, only getting into it to apply corrections for its 1.1 patch, I hope the last one.

    Still going with dual projects (one on working machine & the other on fun machine), I shall begin to play with graphics for a new proposition :

    The Idea is to explore the Sengoku late period, thirty years after the beginning of the Mge then ToT scenario Sengoku Jidai. Something like "Sengoku : Unification" or simply "Sengoku 1560".

    Played monthly, I intend to on the one side take advantage of Lua possibilities to alter terrains type and terrain graphics to pictures seasons and weather,

    exemple, Rice Paddies
    exemple.png

    On the other side, i was thinking about including a "Strategic Building" system in the same Idea as the "Strategic bombing" one, except one would have Ninja instead of bombers and Night Guards instead of Fighters on a Night map instead of an Air map.

    There's the main idea.
    That shall be a secondary project with the EmperorIsDead becoming the main one.
     
    typhoon353, JPetroski and CurtSibling like this.
  2. Buck2005

    Buck2005 Prince

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    he graphics are honestly quite disgusting and toxic. In the former TES and EmperorIsDead scenarios, the design looks much nicer. However, my opinion in this case is unrepresentative, so this is not how I play the scenarios. Of course, you can choose any graphics you like. It's just an outside opinion. )
     
  3. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    If I could ask, are the bonuses the issue ? Too small and undetailed ?
    The unsnow Rice Paddies tile ? Are the water color too green ? The Plant pod too messy ?

    Thanks for giving opinion anyway.
     
  4. CurtSibling

    CurtSibling ENEMY ACE™ SLeague Staff Supporter

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    The only toxic thing I see here is the way Buck spoke to you. I'd urge him to use politeness when talking to his fellow CIV players.
     
  5. Buck2005

    Buck2005 Prince

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    Colors are overly bright. Calm vanilla shades are much more effective for practical use, for reading a map.

    I prefer not to continue this conversation further, as it obviously causes a strange reaction from other users. ) I'm sorry if the tone of my previous message seemed offensive to you. I didn't intend to offend anyone.
     
  6. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    These graphics shall be reworked anyway. :)

    Looking at Rice cycle, this first Idea of food cycle was somehow naïve :
    the scale of a monthly-turn preindustrial world have differences with a century-turn, then tens-turn and at worse a year-turn world, like it has differences with industrial and modern world where the "energy" value of food for economic systems get lower as technologies and energetic resource get used.

    .

    I'm thirsty of proposing more realistic production cycles in accordance to seasons, cycle of production and terrains. That won't be for EmperorIsDead, but, i'm willing to mature this though for this scenario.
    This makes me ponder about the game resources and the place of food in it for this scenario :

    -Food : should figure the Population Growth Potential, devoid of other factors.
    Have villages/cities instead of irrigations/farmlands ? Gives bonus PGP to lands bonuses inducing more population living upon them, to like special ore (or already mine) spots ?

    -Shields : should figure like in usual civ production the concrete action from rulers.
    Main resource at this time was wood rather than stone or metal, so woodcamp/sawmill should be prefered to the usual mine ?

    -Trade :
    Trade was a vast resource agregating many economic concepts, simuling economical activity. As such, food shall supplement this one in pre-industrial socities ?
    "Economical Activity" or even "PNB" being simplified in "trade" seems fine, with the division in three parts on the lord's choice.

    -Luxury :
    Well depicted, that's the part for the population well-being.

    -Science :
    In this scenario, like the TES one, not much ambitionning to picture "technologies" but rather "policies"
    (like let's say, hey, a portuguese merchant showed us muskets few decades ago, let's use it in our army, or "no more weapon for civils")

    -Money :
    My point there is, is the scale of feodal japan lord the one where their riches is only the amount of gold they have ? Wasn't their riches more than that, mainly including goods directly taken with taxes, including large amount of food to use ?
    To use to sustain food shortage. To use to feed its army ? Is it an interresting thing to (try to) picture that, like Jpetroski do with fuel in Hinge of fate ?

    .

    Truth is, there is still much to learn, then a lot to think and mature about Sengoku scenario I dream of proposing.
    That, having in mind I hold a special place in heart to the (at the time MGE) Sengoku Jidai scenario which fascinated me, and which I don't plan to replace !
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2022
  7. CurtSibling

    CurtSibling ENEMY ACE™ SLeague Staff Supporter

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    It's not a strange reaction. It is me telling you to show respect to other users.
    A message that seems to have sunk in. Now let's allow this thread move to forward.
     
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  8. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    Reworked Rice Padies to somehow find a culture cycle using the second layer btw,

    and did put result in quick situation to see if it matches the surroundings.
    exemple3.png
    I'm wondering about the first flooded phase one and about a choice between the two pausing snowed lands.
    Green may be totally hidden from the first flooded phase, and the snow lands may loose their irrigation water too, appart from the choice ?

    Indeed, land around could evolve a little too changing terrain01 and terrain02

    I guess there's still room for amelioration. :think:
    Exemple2.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2022
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  9. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    Another dilemna, with two different concepts for cities.

    Exemple2.png
    First is a little altered version from Jamestout great graphics
    Second is an adaptation from a very well known source with a credit to give to "Saint Michael".

    Jamestout graphics are great and poetic yet ... somehow pastelish (if correct in english) considering the surrounding graphics.
    Furthermore, they wouldn't go quite well with the "strategic units" graphics built, from that same second source, looking like :

    exemple3.png
    Maybe this "strategic improvements feature" is a wrong path for such a scenario after all ?
    Maybe are these little work from that second source ugly too ?
     
  10. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    Met an issue with graphic work, having the terrain1.bmp crash civ2.
    Couldn't find the reason for it to crash this way.

    I took back a EmperorIsDead base to tweak the map, next will be new graphic works
     
  11. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    So, took the wonderful map of Sengoku Jidai scenario as a base, which tickled me in some way for this project.

    I thus altered some terrains types (merged the differents plains and forests together), and am now working from the north of Honshū with this wonderful website providing topographic maps to correct the hills and mountains placement, which will be important there :
    Indeed, Mountains shall be impassable anytime, but hills shall be impassable when snowy too, while passable otherwise.

    Also whished to have RR slower than roads, beeing depicted as snowy roads.


    On the other side, I planned to have cities need flat room to build some structures, having them placed on map, making these tile spawn point for designated units build by the city (eg, a "Samourai Archer" built in the city would spawn at the archery's tile), and making cities spread out a little (within its borders, from center to outskirts)

    This should give something like that :
    Exemple2.png
     
  12. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    Half of the map got its hills and mountains.

    Quite a tricky thing to adjust the topographic map to the cruve applied to the Sengoku Jidai one.
    Exemple2.png
     
  13. CurtSibling

    CurtSibling ENEMY ACE™ SLeague Staff Supporter

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    Map is huge, and looks great!

    Also I prefer the Jamestout artistic-looking cities. More in keeping with the culture/art of the era...Perhaps?
     
  14. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    That would mean building new jamestout-like units for the strategic stuff.
    I'll take time to ponder that after the map is built.
     
  15. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    Hills and Mountains are placed, some river got routed or added.
    Corrections may be pondered later considering city placement and gameplay.

    I somehow feel bad for altering this map which was truly gorgeous and felt like a enormous work from its creator (must be DarthVeda ?).
    All what's left are some ocean bonus to give to tiles in the open sea !

    Exemple2.png
     
  16. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    So, Curt, do you still prefer the Jamestout-like graphics with the complete following sets (cities + strategic units) ?

    Exemple2.png

    Others' opinions are welcome too. :)


    Edith : Ha ! Just realised I should be abl to propose both at the beginning of scenario ! This does it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2022
  17. typhoon353

    typhoon353 Chieftain

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    Here are some Japanese architectural elements in the Jamestout style that could help you with the strategic buildings - you could get some barns, shrines, dojos and castles from these:

    japanesebuildings.png
     
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  18. Dadais

    Dadais Prince

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    Project is put on hold at the moment.

    Working machine shall be used to advance the TES scenario to its 2.0 stage for totpp18, aiming to :
    alter some features,
    add media,
    add quests,
    rework messages and
    rebuild the lua code.
     
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