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Senshi and RawSasquatch - The Cajuns (Beausoleil) for Vox Populi

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by gwennog, Dec 6, 2020.

  1. gwennog

    gwennog Prince

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    174.png
    Great Expulsion

    Cities reveal Shrimp.png Shrimp resources on coasts, lakes and bayou (coastal marshes) when founded. While a rival city is in :c5angry: Resistance, :c5citizen: citizens from it may migrate to your cities. Migrations brings +50 :c5faith: Faith and :c5culture: Culture, scaling with Era.

    205.png
    Mi'kmaq Militia (Musketman)
    • -20% :c5strength:, -10% :c5rangedstrength:
    • Promotions: Withdraw Before Melee, Child of the Dawn (+1 :c5moves: Movement and Sight, Ignores Zone of Control, While at full health, causes blockaded enemy cities to enter :c5angry: Resistance when beginning a turn adjacent to them.
    Cajun_Swamp_Cabin_768.png
    Bayou Cabin (Lighthouse)
    • +1 :c5culture: Culture and +1 :c5greatperson: Great Musician Point by Sea Resources and Atolls worked by the City.
    • Add one Musician specialist slot.
    • +10% to :c5faith: Faith and :c5culture: Culture during Mardi gras (WLTKD).
    • Improves bayou and lake Shrimp.png Shrimp.
    • The City does not have to be built on the coast.

    Shrimp_resource.png
    Shrimp (Luxury resource)
    • +1 :c5food: Food and :c5culture: Culture.
    • With Monopoly: +1 :c5food: Food and :c5culture: Culture and +5% :c5gold: Gold.

    Spoiler 4UC Compatibility :

    KreweIcon.png
    Krewe (Great Musician)
    • Promotion Mardi Gras: Start a WLTKD when expended.
    FrenchQuarter_256.png
    Vieux Carré Français (National Visitor Center)
    • Come earlier, at Railroad
    • +25 :c5culture: Culture for new :c5citizen: Citizen.
    • +15% :c5gold: Gold during WLTKD.
    • 10% of :c5food: Food created by the City counts as :c5culture: Culture per turn.
    • Artists, Musicians and Writers Specialists in all cities produce +1 :tourism: Tourism.


    Credits:
    • senshidenshi: Original Creator, most XML, SQL and Art
    • Chrisy15: Lua
    • Leugi: Leader Scene
    • GPuzzle: "Other Things"
    • Octoski: Creator of original Acadia mod
    • Sasquatch (aka Kramer): Actually finished the mod
    • Gwennog: VP compatibility changes
    • DMS, JFD, Adan_eslavo, Sukritact: lua inspiration and source
    • Shrimpu-art: Art on net
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  2. gwennog

    gwennog Prince

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    A funny Civ from Senshi and Rawsasquatch, I changed a lot of things while trying to stay true to the original spirit.
    The quality of the new art is very average, please apologize me, but after many hours of work and unsuccessful attempts I have to face the facts, I really suck at it.

    When I first played with this civ, a long time ago, I immediately thought of shrimp instead of the random sea resources of the original version. And always a clip of Forrest Gump comes to mind :



    This version of Cajuns Civ is also a tribute to Bubba, Forest and Ldt Dan and of course to Louisiana. :hatsoff:.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    John.B.C likes this.
  3. Heinz_Guderian

    Heinz_Guderian Warlord

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    Cool Idea, does it have any 3&4UC?
     
  4. gwennog

    gwennog Prince

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    Thank you. For the moment no, I have never played with 3&4UC but I must try it. I will then be able to complete the CIV's that I have modified.
     
    Heinz_Guderian likes this.
  5. Eddie.exe

    Eddie.exe Chieftain

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    I see you used a variety of Cherry Shrimp as the icon of the Shrimp luxury!
     
  6. gwennog

    gwennog Prince

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    It was the idea because it is clearly visible but in fact it is a cooked shrimp :mischief:
     
  7. gwennog

    gwennog Prince

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    V3

    Add 3UC et 4UC Compatibility
    Change part of the UA to work with this version

    Bayou Cabin give +10% to :c5faith: Faith and :c5culture: Culture during Mardi gras (WLTKD) instead of +10% to :c5gold: Gold and :c5culture: Culture.

    Maybe Vieux Carré Français arrives a bit early, I take any feedback on this subject.

    At the moment, the Krewe is not an original musician with his own pieces. Unit_UniqueNames functionality seems buggy. I posted on Github and hope for a response.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  8. SolutionIt

    SolutionIt Chieftain

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    Finally went ahead and tried this civ and had the AI use it too! Really fun but I think it is currently overtuned mainly because of the Bayou Cabin, Migrations, and with 3UC/4UC activated the Krewe.

    Playing this civ gave me a mix of the Inuit and Brazil when playing them and I have to say their culture growth does not go unnoticed. While I did not finish my game I noticed that being able to produce great musicians over all your empire regardless of whether or not they are coastal is asking for an absurdly easy culture victory. (After this I'm just going to stop playing marathon length games, they take far too long).

    If I were to nerf the Bayou Cabin it'd probably be better to nerf the extra GMP Point and Culture per sea resource and atoll worked since that building pretty much seems integral to having The Cajun's kit synergize well, but being able to have music specialists by the Classical Era with good culture growth is pretty strong as it is, especially if sea resources enhance that further. That would also indirectly nerf Krewes since you wouldn't get them at the same rate anymore.

    Now I'd stop there if I didn't have 2 other things to address.

    I'll start with the migrations ability. It is the unique feature of this civ and arguably not just a UA that benefits them alone, but also benefits everyone else to some extent and directly screws over warmonger civs. However it does not require any effort from the player at all to interact with it currently outside of maybe bribing other civilizations, and hoping your opponent uses inquisitors to get rid of your religion. I can't recall if I could activate it through direct war myself, I'm positive you couldn't though. The ability also doesn't require that the Cajuns have actually discovered a civilization whose citizens are dissatisfied to migrate to his cities, effectively removing what would likely be a very important balancing issue with the ability since there could be enough early game wars to net you a religion much faster than probably intended.

    I think the way to address that part of his UA is simple though. Make it so he has to have discovered that civilization, and allow him to benefit from the migrations if he conquers rival cities in exchange for reducing the yields.

    My other issue which is much smaller really boils down to the shrimp resource. I'll make a comparison to the seals resource of the Inuit. The Inuit have some balancing mechanics that prevent the Seals from being absurdly powerful which is the requirement for Tundra/Snow/Ice to be near the fish resource, replacing a fish resource, and the fact they don't appear immediately upon settling forces researching Fishing instead of Trapping (Inuksuks).

    The Cajuns don't really have anything like that to slow down their initial culture gains with shrimp, and the same technology that improves shrimp also leads to sailing which gets you bayou cabins. I personally don't think this needs to be toned down if the suggested Bayou Cabin nerf is applied since it would effectively make their yields less effective overall, and unlike Seals, Shrimps don't guarantee the Giorgio Armier Corporation, they actually don't guarantee any corporation. But it is something to keep in mind if you have other ideas for a nerf.

    Overall the civ is great and takes advantage of a mechanic no other civ takes advantage of quite the same way or as effectively and is dead set for a culture victory, but it might be a little too good at it as it stands currently.
     
    Hinin and gwennog like this.
  9. gwennog

    gwennog Prince

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    I'm pretty much on the Duchy of Brittany at the moment but really thank you for the feedback. I will take the time to read your comments carefully to answer and correct them if necessary. I also need to add some original Krewe now that there is a solution for this.
     
    SolutionIt likes this.
  10. SolutionIt

    SolutionIt Chieftain

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    Nice I actually saw the thread and have it followed. I'm actually learning how to use Github with Visual Studio's C++ to do changes to the Fealty Policy Tree. I'm actually a little curious if there are any resources I could have thrown my way which would help with that. At the bare minimum I'm just trying to copy effects from parameters from tables in policies or traits to other tables so I don't think I'll run into too much trouble.
     
  11. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    Here is the summary in English of a conversation that I had with gwennog in pm.

    Spoiler English summary :
    UA :
    • Adding a Luxury Resource in the UA is quite the usual move in mods, but often causes unbalance. In this case, the ease of access for the LR (contrary to the Inuit for example) makes it too advantageous.
    • An idea could be to make the Shrimp a Bonus Resource instead. It is easier to tweak and balance, and has a lot less potency (especially because of the deals, monopolies and corporations LRs provide).
    UU1 :
    • My problem with this unit doesn't really come from its power (although it is undeniably powerful) but from what it represents.
    • The Mi'kmaq people was indeed only a temporary ally to the Acadiens (not the Cadiens/Cajuns), and were treated quite badly by the French crown, making them hostile quite quickly.
    • With gwennog, we agreed that the unit should be replaced by a more appropriate one (focus on the Creoles or the Houmas)
    UB1 :
    • As SolutionIt said, this building is far too powerful, with three different bonuses to culture, and an ease of access that make these bonuses even more potent
    UU2 :
    • The unit, although synergizing well with the UB1 and the UNW, is too bland in itself.
    • I proposed that the UNW (which replaces a very late NW normally) could be produced automatically once a certain number of Krewe are expended. It's only one idea among others, but the general concept is that the unit needs to be more interactive to become interesting and compensate for the lack of a second unique military unit for the civ.
    UNW :
    • In itself, the UNW is quite weak, and provides less bonuses that the NW (for example in Tourism when you look at the numbers) on the long run.
    Here is one concept to allow the UNW to be more powerful, but also scale better and have a more direct link with the Crewe (WIP of course).

    Vieux Carré Français (replaces the National Visitor Center)
    Available immediatly
    Cannot be produced or invested in
    No population or building requirement
    Whenever a Krewe is expended, gain 1/10 of the production cost for the Vieux Carré Français in Capital City.

    +1 :c5greatperson: GMusician point to all Specialists in Empire
    +1 :tourism: Tourism from all sources in City (so whenever a source gives Tourism, it is increased by 1, like for Gold during Golden Ages)
    +1 :tourism: Tourism from National Wonders, World Wonders, Great Works in Empire during WLTKD
    5 % of the City's :c5food: Food is converted into :c5culture: Culture


    Voilà.

    Full French version below for those curious:

    Spoiler French pavé :

    Great Expulsion
    • Hormis la mécanique liée à la Migration (extrêmement unique, mais difficile à contrôler), le principal point noir que je trouve ici est le fait que la capacité de faire apparaître des LR Crevettes, outre qu’elle n’est pas très originale (c’est un élément souvent critiqué dans les mod de civilisations qui essaient d’être uniques de cette façon, mais au final s’avère peu inspirés, un vrai piège en matière de design), est difficile à équilibrer (comme SolutionIt l’a mentionné).
    • La première solution qui me vient à l’esprit serait de transformer les Crevettes en BR (Bonus Resource) : cela t’éviterait d’avoir à te contorsionner pour trouver un moyen d’équilibrer la ressource (voir comment le mod des Inuits règle ce problème) et rendrait l'effet plus unique. Tu pourrais ainsi faire en sorte qu’elle apparaisse toujours aux mêmes endroits, tout en facilitant l'équilibrage de ce que la ressource rapporte.

    Mi’kmaq Militia
    • Même s’il arrive parfois que des unités « semi-étrangères » apparaissent au sein du kit d’une civilisation (ex. : Corsaires pour le Maroc, Mamelouk pour l’Egypte, Qizilbash pour la Perse, Cosaques pour la Russie), le cas des Mi’kmaq me semble un peu « limite », si je peux me permettre. Si effectivement des guerriers Mi’kmaq ont effectivement combattu aux côtés des Acadiens durant la première moitié du XVIIIème siècle, le fait est que non seulement cette alliance était très mouvante (ils combattirent d’un côté ou de l’autre selon les périodes), mais qu’en plus la couronne française s’est montrée particulièrement cynique à leur égard (notamment pour ce qui de la question de la possession légale de leurs terres en droit français et leur traitement lors des traités). Les intégrer de façon si visible dans le kit des Cadiens (UU1, seul moyen d’activer manuellement la mécanique de Migration de l’UA), alors qu’il s’agit d’un peuple bien distinct, aux relations fluctuantes (voire même hostiles) avec les Acadiens et qui en plus n’eurent plus aucun contact avec eux après le Grand Dérangement (et donc lorsqu’ils sont devenus Cadiens) me semble tiré par les cheveux, dans le meilleur des cas, irrespectueux dans le pire.
    • Mais bon, on est là pour parler de mécaniques. Sur ce front là, je n’ai pas grand-chose à dire (le design est intéressant, et le point faible majeur de l’unité, sa fragilité au CàC, est compensée par sa capacité à battre en retraite). Peut-être un peu trop puissant sur le papier, mais bon il s'agit de la seule unité militaire unique de la civilisation, donc je vais me montrer prudent ici.

    Bayou Cabin :
    • Comme l’a précisé SolutionIt, le bâtiment dans sa forme actuelle est trop puissant par rapport à son moment de disponibilité. +1 culture au début de l’ère classique n’est pas négligeable, et là s’accumulent le spécialiste musicien, le bonus pour les ressources et l’avantage lors des WLTKD.
    • Le fait que le bâtiment améliore les WLTKD, alors que la civilisation a déjà des facilités pour en obtenir plus souvent que les autres , est plus encore une amélioration de la culture de la cité (culture que le bâtiment fourni déjà en quantité) est je pense excessif. Si tu regardes une autre civilisation profitant de nombreux WLTKD, la Chine, ses seuls bonus lors des WLTKD sont en nourriture et en or, deux types de produit jugés comme parmi les plus faibles (avoir trop de nourriture est contre-productif, la valeur de l’or baisse considérablement au cours de la partie). Je pense ici que tu dois choisir entre « plus de WLTKD » et « de meilleurs WLTKD » : puisque tu as consacré une unité unique entière à la première solution, je pense que c’est sur ce chemin-là que tu devrais aller, et donc tout simplement supprimer cette partie du bâtiment.

    Krewe :

    • A première vue, on pourrait réagir en voyant ce UC en disant « c’est trop simple », et j’ai effectivement eu cette réaction la première fois que je l’ai vu (d’autant plus qu’il s’agit de facto d’une version affaiblie de ce que fait déjà la Chine avec son UA).
    • Néanmoins, cela colle thématiquement, et le fait que l’UA se focalise sur l’idée d’un développement le plus pacifique possible (du moins pour toi) rend logique l’absence d’une seconde unité militaire unique.
    • Une idée parmi d’autres pour ajouter un peu de « peps » à l’unité pourrait être liée au dernier UC du kit : le Vieux Carré Français. Je vais donc détailler ça juste après.

    Vieux Carré Français :

    • Parce qu’il est disponible bien plus tôt que le National Visitor Center qu’il remplace, le VCF a finalement un impact bien plus faible sur le tourisme (+1 tourisme par spécialistes culturel, c’est environ +20-25 tourisme, soit souvent le quart de ce que produit le National Visitor Center une fois construit), et ce n’est au final que peu compensé par le reste des bonus (excepté la conversion de la nourriture en culture, qui effectivement peut être très puissant).
    • Le double bonus de culture (lors de la naissance de citoyens + conversion de la nourriture) est excessif ici je pense
    • Le bonus d’or lors des WLTKD est trop similaire à ce que la Chine fait déjà trois ères avant le VCF.
    • Néanmoins, simplement remettre ce que fait le National Visitor Center serait effectivement trop puissant. Il faut trouver ici un équilibre, tout en retravaillant les bonus autour.
    Voici une proposition parmi d’autres :

    Vieux Carré Français (replaces the National Visitor Center)
    Available immediatly
    Cannot be produced or invested in
    No population or building requirement
    Whenever a Krewe is expended, gain 1/10 of the production cost for the Vieux Carré Français in Capital City.

    +1 :c5greatperson: GMusician point to all Specialists in Empire
    +1 :tourism: Tourism from all sources in City (so whenever a source gives Tourism, it is increased by 1, like for Gold during Golden Ages)
    +1 :tourism: Tourism from National Wonders, World Wonders, Great Works in Empire during WLTKD
    5 % of the City's :c5food: Food is converted into :c5culture: Culture

    Comme les Cadiens semble être conçus pour être une civilisation plutôt faible militairement, mais capable de devenir très puissante si la paix est maintenue, l'idée ici est de récompenser le joueur qui prend la peine d'investir pleinement dans les points forts de la civilisation, et ainsi d'augmenter le côté dynamique et interactif du kit : chaque Krewe devrait être important, puisqu'en plus du WLTKD et du GWork c'est une étape supplémentaire vers l'obtention d'un boost énorme pour la puissance culturelle et touristique de la civilisation (n'oublions pas que le Bayou Cabin va être considérablement affaibli dans tous les cas, et que donc la quantité de culture que la civilisation obtient en début de partie va beaucoup baisser).

    En résumé :
    • Crevettes trop puissantes (transformation en Bonus Resource ?)
    • Utiliser la Mi'qmak Militia est-il respectueux ?
    • Le Bayou Cabin est bien trop puissant et cumule trop de choses produisant de la culture
    • Le Krewe manque d'interactivité
    • Le Vieux Carré Français est trop faible par rapport à ce qu'il remplace, et cumule des effets anecdotiques ou rajoutant encore une fois trop de culture
    • Excès de culture dans l'ensemble du kit (UA, Bayou Cabin, VCF)

    Voilà. Désolé si mes critiques ont pu paraître un peu trop sévère (après tout, je ne suis pas celui qui fait les efforts avant ou après), mais je pense que, mêlées à celles de SolutionIt (qui a une meilleure expérience ingame de la civilisation), cela te permettre de mieux jauger ce que tu pourrais changer dans ce qui demeure un concept de civilisation très original et qui thématiquement me plaît beaucoup.
     
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