Sentencing Poll: Chieftess (V)

[naervod]

Chieftess has been found guilty of violating CoL: D.1.C.1 per this poll.

The sentencing poll will last for 72 hours.

Please vote:
Suspension (Length to be determined by moderators)
Impeachment
Warning
No Punishment
Abstain

As the Judge Advocate I recommend a warning.

 

[eyrei]

This is giving me a headache. Once I have slept on it, I am going to start a discussion about removing PIs altogether.

 

[Chieftess]

Wow, so some are saying a minor tile misplacement or two warrants suspension just as something major like playing ahead in the game to see our anarchy length? Something is certainly wrong here.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

CT, in the case you are referring to, the trial verdict was released too late in the the term for an impeachment to have any effect, especially since the defendant wasn't pursuing a position next term. So while may voters may have chosen this option otherwise, they opted for suspension.

As this term winds down to close, we find ourselves in a similar situation, with the defendant seeking office in Trade. Therefore, I will submit my vote for warning instead of suspension.

eyrei, I agree that these PIs have more than served their purpose and feel that any future DP will be very wary of how they handle governor instructions. This has definitely been a learning experience for all.

However, I would not be for abolishing PIs altogether. While they can lead to distraction, they are a vital part of the checks and balances our country provides. Plus, I believe that removing the PI process would make this game less realistic.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

I voted for no punishement ,wich make's it the leading option.

And i agree this Pi system should be seriously reviewed.

 

[eyrei]

For one thing, suspension from the demogame should not even be an option here. I am certainly not suspending anyone for missing worker instructions.

 

[disorganizer]

@duck: not at all. at this moment of the post, the standing is 5 for no punishment, and 7 for warning or higher. which would (hopefully, otherwise our voting system in general would be ridiculous) result in warning (the higher options than warning include warning as option. dont forget this when interpreting the results!).


EDIT (explanation of my interpretation):
6 against 7 for no punishment
7 against 6 for warning
4 against 9 for impeachment
3 against 10 for suspension

so at that very moment warning would be the winning option.

 

[disorganizer]

btw: and yes, i also find that suspension should not be an option in pi's.

proposal: all sentencing polls should have a max-punishment of impeachment, and if somebody is impeached it is up to the chief justice to bring the case to the high-court of the demogame, the moderators, who decide whether it is a matter of suspension or not. the duration as well as whether or not will then be up to the moderators. only exception: if the suspect is a moderator, the case is braught to TF as highest jurisdiction of cfc.

 

[naervod]

I think something needs to be done as Chieftess has been found guilty on two counts. However, it is one of my goals this term to seriously review PI's if elected Chief Justice. Also, it is the law that I have to include suspension. I do not think that is fair for something as minor as this and should be removed from CoL sentences.

 

[disorganizer]

well, in fact i never saw a poll even tending to have that win the possibility for that seems pretty low... the suspension votes normally just count towards the warning votes ;-)

i think that suspension should always be decided by a mod, not a vote (well, if a mod does not want to suspend a citizen we cant do anything about it... so its useless)

but another question:
i believed that a sentencing discussion should have been held, and only the options which were seriously discussed there should be up for vote? i will have to review the rules for that... because i somehow remember it was like that.

 

[Immortal]

For one thing, suspension from the demogame should not even be an option here. I am certainly not suspending anyone for missing worker instructions.

This is not your decision to make Eyrei, you are obligated do as the citizens wish. You do not have any other option then that if it is decided upon. If you go against the citizens you risk losing all credibility as a defender of the people.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Immortal
This is not your decision to make Eyrei, you are obligated do as the citizens wish. You do not have any other option then that if it is decided upon. If you go against the citizens you risk losing all credibility as a defender of the people.

No, I am not obligated to suspend anyone. I don't care who it is, or whether I like them or not, I am not going to suspend someone for failing to follow worker instructions. In fact, even our law says the length is to be decided by the moderators. The length in this case would be zero, though I seriously doubt that option is going to win.

 

[Cyc]

You people drink too much coffee. I voted Warning which is appropriate for this time. Next time would be impeachment.

The whole point of these PI's was to document all the ways that CT was running roughshod over the Governor's. Not to crucify her.

 

[naervod]

Originally posted by disorganizer

but another question:
i believed that a sentencing discussion should have been held, and only the options which were seriously discussed there should be up for vote? i will have to review the rules for that... because i somehow remember it was like that.

That is an excellent idea disorganizer, however, a sentencing discussion could potentially make a PI runabout 1/3 of the term, which is too long into my opinion. My idea is that we incorporate a sentencing discussion in to the PI discussion, so a set of options will be ready when the Judge Advocate posts the sentencing poll.

 

[Immortal]

I voted WARNING, even though I voted Not guilty in the trial poll I think conviction without punishment to be a foolish method of PI.

 

[disorganizer]

naervod: also, immortal is right. we should delete the options "no punishment" and "suspension" from the sentencing options.
no punishment when someone is guilty is senseless (a warning is a no-matter...) and suspension can only be decided by a mod (independent from a pi).
but we will need another option we had last game: "final warning", as warning is a pretty powerless option for minor issues, but final warning would be the last call before impeachment...
so with the options "warning, final warning, impeachment" the pi sentencing should be fine. the "no punishment" is done with the guilty/no guilty poll.

EDIT:
but we should add something to the laws also:
if a "high crime" was committed, even if no pi was requested, the judicacy should be able to decide whether the crime should be braught before the high court (moderators, TF if a moderator is concerned) to decide about a suspension from the game.

 

[Myartar]

I voted warning b/c this isn't that big a deal. The problems in this one city aren't threatening the entire country.

I also want to point out that the 3 people who have voted to suspend CT should be ashamed. CT has been one of the most committed people to the DG, and these three... wonderful people... obviously have no respect and care nothing for the DG if they're willing to make an attempt to get rid of her. (steps off soapbox)

 

[disorganizer]

ah i forgot something:
people harrassing others because of what they voted should be permanently banned of course ;-)

maybe some of those also wanted to put a counter statement to the "no punishment" fraction, and of course you could also argument that all people voting "no punishment" should be ashamed because they dont care about the rules

 

[Shaitan]

Please note that suspension in a PI is NOT a suspension from CivFanatics forums. It is a voluntary withdrawal from the demogame forums and chatrooms by the sentenced person for the amount of time specified by the moderators. The moderators were made the final word on suspension length but it could just as easily be the Judiciary, Senate or any other organized body.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

yup something i found out all too well