Separate build queues.

[Superkrest]

that would also be great for new cities that your trying to build both defense and cultral infrastructure

 

[Akka]

Maybe you could allow later buildings, like factories, to permit multiple builds, and certain improvements would give a production bonus to some units under construction. If you have an automobile plant (increases production) it could add 5-10 shields per turn to any mechanized unit you built, if you split the queue. Improvements like concrete plant would speed the construction of buildings/highways.

Great idea

 

[apatheist]

Maybe you could allow later buildings, like factories, to permit multiple builds, and certain improvements would give a production bonus to some units under construction.

I also think this is an excellent idea. You can only build one thing at a time, but once you have a factory, you can build two. With a manufacturing plant, maybe you can build three. Or a factory enables multiple builds in a turn with carryover of "extra" shields. As mentioned before, the latter achieves the former, but with additional flexibility.

... and certain improvements would give a production bonus to some units under construction. If you have an automobile plant (increases production) it could add 5-10 shields per turn to any mechanized unit you built, if you split the queue. Improvements like concrete plant would speed the construction of buildings/highways.

This may be too specialized. I'd like to keep all shields the same. Maybe it should be expressed as certain improvements (or small wonders?) reduce the build cost of some units or improvements. Still might be too specialized, though.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Nay! I just feel anti...

 

[Superkrest]

this would also be an incredible feature in the early part of the game..when there are a few wonders that you want to build..but you also need a few units or settlers..if your ahead in the tech game..and can afford to build it a little slower...that would be great by not completly shutting off one of your most important cities

 

[apatheist]

Another way of doing this would be to allow pausing and resuming of production. i.e., I've spent 31 turns on the Pyramids, but I'd sure like a Settler now, so I pause the Pyramids, crank out a Settler, and then switch back. Perhaps I lose some production by pausing and resuming to balance it; in civ3, there was some balance because it forced you to gamble.

 

[GeorgeOP]

I don't think I like the idea of building two things at once, but I thought of something reading apatheist. In Civ III, he would have to change production to settler, then switch back to the Pyramids, but would be forced to start over from scratch. He built half of a Pyramid, where did it go?

I would like to see two queues, but you could only pump your hammers into one. Then you could leave your half built Pyramids, build defence or whatnot, and then come back some years later and finish your government project. That would add a lot more strategy, imho.

Maybe then incoroporate earlier ideas of allowing factories to allow you to put your hammers in both queues. This would simulate that your city is so large, it is really a metropolitan area with suburbs and all of that.

 

[apatheist]

I don't think I like the idea of building two things at once, but I thought of something reading apatheist. In Civ III, he would have to change production to settler, then switch back to the Pyramids, but would be forced to start over from scratch. He built half of a Pyramid, where did it go?

I would like to see two queues, but you could only pump your hammers into one. Then you could leave your half built Pyramids, build defence or whatnot, and then come back some years later and finish your government project.

Why limit it to two?

That would add a lot more strategy, imho.

Have to be careful with that. Sometimes, adding abilities can close off strategic options rather than opening them up.

I have come to the conclusion that multiple build queues are worse than a single build queue with overflow and the ability to build more than one thing in a turn. Consider: your city has 9 shields. You are building 1 swordsman (30) and 1 temple (60).

Option 1 - status quo:
Turn 1: swordsman 9/30, temple 0/60
Turn 4: swordsman done, 6 shields wasted, temple 0/60
Turn 11: swordsman off killing people, temple done, 3 shields wasted
Result: you have a swordsman at turn 4 and a temple at turn 11, having wasted 9 shields in over-build.

Option 2 - a parallel build queue that splits shields (almost) evenly:

Turn 1: swordsman 5/30, temple 4/60
Turn 6: swordsman done, temple 24/60
Turn 10: swordsman off killing people, temple done
Result: you have a swordsman at turn 6 and a temple at turn 10, having wasted 0 shields in over-build.

Option 3 - a parallel build queue that splits shields proportionally:
Turn 1: swordsman 3/30, temple 6/60
Turn 10: swordsman done, temple done
Result: you have both a swordsman and a temple at turn 10 with no over-build.

Option 4 - allow carryover with a single build queue:
Turn 1: swordsman 9/30, temple 0/60
Turn 4: swordsman done, temple 6/60
Turn 10: swordsman off killing people, temple done
Result: you have a swordsman at turn 4 and temple at turn 10 with no over-build.

As you can see, just allowing carryover gets you the swordsman and temple earlier than in every other case. Splitting production may seem like it doesn't make a difference, but it does; you don't get the benefits until later.

Take the example of workers mining. Let's say it takes your workers 6 turns to mine hills (let's assume these hills have roads on them already). You have 3 workers that you will use to mine 3 hills. If you stack them all, it looks like this:

Turn 1: 3 workers mining hill 1, hills 1-3 producing 1 shield each
Turn 2: 3 workers mining hill 1, hills 1-3 producing 1 shield each
Turn 3: 3 workers mining hill 2, hill 1 producing 3 shields, hills 2 and 3 producing 1 shield each
Turn 4: 3 workers mining hill 2, hill 1 producing 3 shields, hills 2 and 3 producing 1 shield each
Turn 5: 3 workers mining hill 3, hills 1 and 2 producing 3 shields, hill 3 producing 1 shield
Turn 6: 3 workers mining hill 3, hills 1 and 2 producing 3 shields, hill 3 producing 1 shield
Turn 7: 3 workers available for other tasks, hills 1-3 producing 3 shields.
Total shields over 7 turns = 36.

If you separate your workers and build the mines in parallel, this is what you get:
Turn 1: worker 1 mining hill 1, worker 2 mining hill 2, worker 3 mining hill 3, hills 1-3 producing 1 shield each.
Turn 2: ditto
Turn 3: ditto
Turn 4: ditto
Turn 5: ditto
Turn 6: ditto
Turn 7: 3 workers available for other tasks, hills 1-3 producing 3 shields.
Total shields over 7 turns = 21.

Splitting tasks up means you delay deriving benefits.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Some time ago, I posted about having a small wonder to deal with shield overflow, a National Warehouse or some such thing, that would let you store and draw on excess shields to increase efficiency. This would take care of complaints about shield overflow.

I wonder how the AI would deal with multiple build queues - perhaps not very well. Again, here is where the player can exploit micromanagement to produce a runaway civ in short order.

Perhaps this effect of bonuses vs given improvements needs to be limited somehow. A Golden Age, for one thing, would enable this, while mobilized for war is another possibility. A late golden age for an industrial type civ would pay off more then, remember the complaints about Germany always having a GA too late. This way they could become a REAL powerhouse for 20 turns, given they had all the right improvements. This would help with the late game predictability issues discussed in other threads, an excellent way for someone to come from behind.
It would be nice if given a quantified resource system, that more resources would be used due to waste during the use of a multiple queue as well. Another way to model an equalizing factor might be to have citizens become unhappy (overworked) or perhaps a citizen has to become an industrial laborer, abandoning a tile or work as a tax collector/entertainer during a multiple build. They produce nothing other than the ability to build more stuff.
I'm open to ideas on how to make this a viable aspect of civ5, anyone have some better ideas?