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Settle the Land -- Choosing a Site for your Capitol

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Skullsplitter, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. Skullsplitter

    Skullsplitter Chieftain

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    OK, that makes sense. The capitol and the first ring or two will benefit from the extra shields. I'm guessing towns that will be useful only for specialists you'd settle the hill, right?

    Re: attacks, don't you get barb swarmed about 1500-1000 BC or so? A stack of 24 horses? Or don't you play with cranked barbs? Seems to me I get hit about then 25% of the games, and unless I've grown to size 7 or built walls, its pretty tough to hold out against them.
     
  2. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter Chieftain

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    I play with Raging Barbarians ... actually, I can't remember the last time I had problems with them. I mean, yes I get the Horde when someone reaches the Middle Age (or whatever the trigger is), but I haven't had problems dealing with them for a long time.
     
  3. Skullsplitter

    Skullsplitter Chieftain

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    Post 43 Map A
    Spoiler :

    I'd get greedy and go for A, despite not getting the cow for 10 turns. Or is it better to just settle on the bonus and plan on/hope for another town at the end of the presumed peninsula?

    43-B
    Spoiler :

    Another greed question. Right where I am is a very good spot. But there's another cow I could have in positions A, B, or C. I don't see a really good reason for selecting B over C except that it will be 10 turns before I get any cows at all in C, unless there's some in the shadows. C obviously has greater chance of popping another food bonus, and entails the same number of moves as B. I'd at least move to A. How greedy are you?

    43-C
    Spoiler :

    Knowing nothing at all about how many rivers are available, I see that I can for sure get a second town on the river if I move to A, plus the gems will be in the radius even if that's a mountain range behind the gems. I'd go A to be on the safe side. What say you?

    43-D
    Spoiler :

    Right where I am isn't bad, though it might cost me a bonus grass. I'm already planning a town at A for the whale and harbor, but should I ford the river to B to pick up the third wheat and not risk losing a BG, or sit pat, smash the forest and put venison steaks on the fire this turn?
     
  4. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    None of you're pics loaded for me. :(
     
  5. Skullsplitter

    Skullsplitter Chieftain

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  6. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter Chieftain

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    A) I would probably end up settling in place so as not to lose the hills. I like my capitals to be productive cities.

    B) You mean another cow immediately, or is there a 4th cow hiding in the fog? In any case, I don't think there's much reason to move, but if I did, it'd be to A; that way you can place a city to the SE of the north Mountain to use some of those Flood Plains.

    C) If you're thinking of putting the other city where I think you are (SE of the Hill), I'd move the Settler due North - you lose the third Wheat for the Capital, but both cities are on the same side of the river.

    D) You must be better at Fog-Reading than I am - I can't see that third Wheat you're talking about at all :/ Anyway, I'd say move to B.
     
  7. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    I don't think it is possible to read resources under fog, except maybe hills/mountians. However, since many lux/bonus come in groups, you can predict.
     
  8. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    A-Settle in place. You'll still get the bonus grassland effect, though I think you have to wait until you get to size 7 for it take effect... or it's something like that. I very strongly advise using cows sooner under almost all cases, including this one.

    B-I'm not sure you're on the river there. Corners often have seemed tricky to me in that regard. Even if you are, by moving to A you get extra commerce earlier, and you have another spot set up for a city on a river also.

    C-I'd plant in place so that you have two wheats earlier. It won't take 10 turns to grow to size 2, if you have the worker irrigate first, which I'd do anyways. So, having two wheats earlier helps grow faster. The gems can come later, and roading up a mountain can take a long time. That said, this seems like a very, very close call.

    D-I'd go to square "B" and use the wheat asap. You can use the game for a bit while your worker develops the wheat squares, especially if you don't overfill the box with food (but don't sacrifice growth either!).
     
  9. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter Chieftain

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    It depends on the resource and direction - for example, if you look at post 14, you can just barely make out the head of the cow two tiles SE of the Settler (look in 15 to see where it is).
     
  10. RFHolloway

    RFHolloway Analyst in the UK

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    43 A - yes A, with the first build a settler to go 4sw of A. that will enable the cows to be shared between the cities and should be enough to get a couple of settler factories out of it.

    43-B - first city right where you are, second city at C - again as soon as you can - possibly first build.

    43-C - worker east to the hill - its worth a worker move to determine how far the river goes, given the food and hills i am thinking a 20K try at this point SE E, with a second city at A

    43-D B is miles better - the principle reason is the water flows through the city so you can irrigare the wheat, and from there the other wheat. Also more grass and less desert.
     
  11. Donny Brook

    Donny Brook Chieftain

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    A note for newbies...you won't get the food bonus if you settle directly on top of such a tile, but you WILL get the commerce bonus by settling on such a tile. For example, by settling on top of a hill with gold, you'll get that extra commerce each and every turn because you're obviously "working" that tile, even at size 1. In a nutshell, you'd rarely settle on a food bonus tile but you would frequently settle on commerce bonus tiles.
     
  12. Skullsplitter

    Skullsplitter Chieftain

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    Huh. Didn't know that, Donny Brook. Shields are also lost, right? So settling on lux like gems in jungle would only cost you something if the jungle tile also happened to be bonus grass?

    ChaosArbitor, my bad. I meant the third food, which is the second wheat.
     
  13. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Chieftain

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    No. It is only that towns (1-6) which are founded on tiles without shields receive one shield for free. Towns that are founded on tiles which have shields do not receive this gift. Once your towns have grown to cites (7-12) this dispartiy is gone as every city receives one shield free in addition to what the tile produces.
     
  14. RFHolloway

    RFHolloway Analyst in the UK

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    Nope - go read some GOTM/COTM initial discussion threads - particularly the early ones. That will give you some sense as to what is and is not possible - and its more than you think.
     
  15. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    I guess it's not under the fog, but if an AI settles in an unusual place for them, it probably indicates that a resource you don't have access to lies within that city's radius.
     
  16. Skullsplitter

    Skullsplitter Chieftain

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    Thanks for the clarification, Lord Emsworth. So there's no downside to a 7+ city on furs, but there is to one on grapes, right?


    56-A
    Spoiler :
    Moving to either A or B will let me found a second city on the delta. Is there any reason to choose one over the other? And a followup, cet. par., would you found the harbor on the forest or the hill?

    56-B
    Spoiler :
    Similar situation. Since this is capitol, am I better off settling on the floodplain or plains? I'm not worried about "accidentally" triggering a golden age this time, so I can make sure to get a mine on it as needed. The big advantage I see to settling the plains is there will likely be less desert in the territory. What say you?

    56-C
    Spoiler :
    Looks like a good candidate for a harbor. Maybe a capitol-shift, too, since this may well be the end of a peninsula. Move the worker onto the cow.
    Spoiler :
    Tile marked "X" has wheat. Looks to me like a future town is the harbor on the delta, barring anything weird popping up. So the initial inclination for A is supported. Or would you handle it differently?

    56-D
    Spoiler :
    These I never know how to read. Would you move one tile to get a harbor and end up trading plains for desert, or forego the harbor because there is almost certainly a good river spot for a future town? In retrospect, I should have move the worker onto the wheat. Maybe that would tell me enough to decide. But the real question is under these circumstances, trade plains for desert in your capitol or not?

    56-E
    Spoiler :
    There is a wheat poking its head out south of A. How committed should I be to building the road on the forest before moving? It'll be 2 turns to get onto the wheat, vs. one after the capitol is placed, but is having extra food a couple turns earlier worth it? How about if I were industrious, so the road will be finished earlier?
     
  17. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter Chieftain

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    56-A: Unless the start point is to the far south (near tundra), I would settle at B. I would place the harbor city on the Forest.

    56-B: I would settle on the Plains, although that's more because I don't like settling on Floodplains. I like Deserts in my city-view (good for production); then two more cities, one between the hills and one at the delta on the same side as the capital.

    56-C: I would probably move to the Northwest, actually; then you know you can settle on the forest SE of 'A,' along with where-ever else is appealing.
    Reading second image: with that knowledge, A does seem a bit better, although if you settle NW, you can settle on the BG NW of the Wheat.

    56-D: I would restart. That is a horrible start for me; if I had to play it, I'd move E and damn the consequences (taking the Hut with the Worker won't pop Barbs, right?).

    56-E: If it were an Agri civ, I would say just settle in place - there are 3 BGs right around, and fresh water to Irrigate the Desert. If it's not AGR ... I can't read those tiles right, are those Jungles to the north? Anyway, I'd probably still settle in place, found a second city on the Forest 2 SE of the northern lake.
     
  18. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    It's not the worker here. A worker can give you barbs from a hut. But, then you'll already have a military unit in existence. You won't get any barbs from any huts until you have a military unit in existence and you're non-exspansionist. Exspansionist tribes never get barbs from huts. And you only can only get barbs from a hut if you already have a unit with attack/defense in existence.
     
  19. RFHolloway

    RFHolloway Analyst in the UK

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    56 a - settle in place - no point wasting the turn. (can still found a city in the forrest)

    56 b - settle in place - not a good enough reason to move.

    56 c - move SW (may still settle in place) not SE the forrest game is really strong early - grapes on plaines are BG's in despot. Post spoiler -just stick it down where it is - second city will go near the delta, probably share the cows, there is enough food and shields for 2 settler factories here eventually.

    56 d - whack the city down, irrigate the wheats, produce workers and whip settlers as required.

    56 e - instinct would still be to settle in place, possibly road B , irrigate the wheat, road the wheat, then back to mine B. Anyway move the worker to B before deciding.
     
  20. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter Chieftain

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    I'd meant if he uses the Worker to immediately pop the Hut, before founding the city. From what you said, that would *not* cause Barbs to spawn, since he wouldn't have any Military units, right?
     

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