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Settlers are for Chumps: Deity One City Challenge

Discussion in 'Playthroughs and Photojournals' started by CrazyG, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    Can you win the game with only one city? Time to find out!
    Spoiler Game Settings :

    Deity Difficulty
    Standard Size
    Standard Speed
    Pangea
    No Events
    No Ancient Ruins
    No Tech Trading


    Spoiler Starting Position :

    I settle on the ivory, giving the city and instant extra hammer. Build a monument, and research pottery.
    0074_Arabia.jpg

    Let's do this.
     
  2. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Chieftain

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    My instinct would have been to settle 1 tile to the right and have access to 3 lake tiles immediately without having to grow my borders. However, I don't know what that would have done to your city's tile- would it have had 1 less production but 1 more food or gold or something? I don't know the rules on settle sites off the top of my head.

    So maybe where you settled gives an extra production, can work 1 lake, and can work the lapis when you grow to two pop? And maybe by the time you hit 3 pop your border will expand to another lake anyway? Your start here is therefore higher production than starting 1 tile to the right, but 1 tile right probably has much higher growth just sticking to the lakes?

    Also, if you build a fort later 1 tile South of your city will that give you the possibility of building navy/cargo ships? I can't remember if the lake tile unlocks that or not. Being able to make cargo ships could be hugely important if you're going for the normal tourism vic with Arabia.

    Arabia is a good choice for OCC. I suppose many of the Tradition leaning civs could work as well.

    I imagine no need for a worker for a bit so you can burn gold speeding infrastructure initially instead of saving up to buy a worker.
     
  3. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    I settle on flat, fresh water, so I have a base of 3 food and 1 hammer.

    The rule for settling you won't lose yields, and that tile has 2 hammers as its base, so I start with 3 food and 2 hammers. It also connects the ivory for free after I get trapping, which means I can sell it earlier and my worker can improve something else. An ivory camp only gains +1 hammer, +1 gold, which isn't worthwhile, and I don't think I will ever build a herbalist.
    I don't think its worth the effort, and moving farther inland means that I may get access to more land tiles and maybe more resources. (Spoiler it gives me marble!) Lakes are nice for the early game but I won't be working them at all by medieval era.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  4. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Chieftain

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    Sorry- what I meant to ask is if settling next to the lake (as you have) gives your city the ability to build cargo ships- I couldn't remember if they suffice or if you have to be next to ocean tiles. If so, you could then use a fort improvement south of your city as a canal to allow your cargo ships access to the southern ocean. I don't think lake tiles unlock building navy or cargo ships from what I can tell in the wiki, though, and I agree that settling on the coast would have made for a much slower start.

    Agreed that the lake tiles are only good in the early game. They are great right when you settle and maybe stay relevant for a bit after building aqueducts but as soon as you start pumping out great people for their improvements and working specialists you would definitely phase them out.
     
  5. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Warlord

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    Where did you start? Why not settle on the coastal Forest to give an instant 10:c5production:, be on the Coast, and be adjacent to both a Lake and an Ivory tile? You would have gotten the other two resources in range as well.
     
  6. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    I think I started next to the forest you suggest settling on.

    I think settling there is a bad move for several reasons. Settling on top of ivory gives me +1 hammer per turn for free, taking only 10 turns to match the forest's bonus. It connects the ivory for free, and I don't need to use a citizen to get any other boosts to the ivory (+3 culture from the circus is an example). It has 3 strong tiles in its immediate borders, instead of just 2 (this is important because tradition grows to 5 or 6 pop so quickly). Also I get to settle a turn earlier, which means I do everything a turn earlier and is very important for early game wonder races.

    A tradition capital is never working coastal or ocean tiles, regardless of lighthouses, harbors, seaports or whatever other bonuses might happen. Those tiles have 0 value, including fish. So when you settle inland, you put a large number of useless tiles into your city.

    I don't know exactly what i will get for moving inland, but most likely there will be some hills for mines and hopefully a few resources. Moving where I did probably puts me closer to horses or iron if there is any. Moving inland is more likely to find additional ivory (in hindsight, your location does have more ivory, but you have to play the odds). I need at least 3 ivory in the capital to get a monopoly (using the East India Company). Even empty grassland or plains are more valuable because I can put a great person on top.

    I don't think you can, and I don't think I would use cargo ships either way, as I don't intend to scout the oceans. Arabia's bazaar gives +50% trade route distance which is quite valuable in an OCC.
     
  7. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Warlord

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    This was the reason I suggested to settle on the Coast-to get the ability to send TRs to further away civs (and maybe get the chance for stuff like Colossus). I assumed sea access to TRs would be vital in an OCC. Is it not as crucial in Pangea?

    I wasn't really considering workable tiles. I think it would be fine regardless but I'm not sure how many tiles are off to the far right and how many you'd need.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    I almost never build colossus with tradition because I'm just not in that part of the tech tree.

    Do cargo ships get more tourism than land trade routes? To use them I would have to scout out the coast which means building a ship. I think they need a harbor for tourism? I have to build a harbor, which means I have to build a lighthouse, why am I spending hammers on these? I'd rather use the hammers (and science) on the Parthenon or Hagia Sophia. Arabia is all about those wonders.
     
    chicorbeef likes this.
  9. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    Update #1
    Spoiler Pre-Game Thoughts :

    I've played a few OCC before. They aren't that difficult, in fact the early game is actually quite easy, not building settlers or extra workers actually puts you quite far ahead in production, science, and culture. However, you have to win very quickly because your late game is awful, especially military.

    Arabia is the best civ for a one city challenge in my opinion.
    I get 1 culture and 1 science any time I complete a historic event, which I plan to do a lot of. The 15% great person progress is amazing. Arabia has been nerfed several times but this UA is still amazing, overall one of the strongest civs in the game.
    The Bazzar has extra science and faith, both of which are really valuable. You have very few sources of faith available and every single point of science counts in the early game.
    Camel archers do their job, but unique units aren't that important for an OCC


    Spoiler First Historic Event :

    Stonehenge on turn 27, Goddess of Beauty is the obvious pantheon.
    Research mining to build a well, then animal husbandry-construction to get Mausoleum.
    For social policies, tradition is the obvious choice. My second policy, I choose the engineer over the artist. That engineer slot will be used every single turn for the rest of the game.
    0078.jpg


    Spoiler City State Quests :

    I do a lot of scouting, trying to find city states but intentionally not finding major civs. I get rewarded here, this science is key. Anytime you want to build hanging gardens, getting one of these CS quests is a huge deal.
    0080.jpg


    Spoiler Second Wonder :

    Lol look at all that science.
    0083.jpg
    I research trapping, then trade to build a bazaar. If I didn't have these quests I would go straight for mathematics.
    Researching trapping connects the ivory, which I sell. The second ivory is connected by a my great engineer who builds a manufactory. I only build one worker all game, who improves the lapis lazuli for an important 2 science.
    0082.jpg


    Spoiler Third Wonder :

    Hanging gardens are mine. The AI seems to build these much slower than on previous patches. At some point my first artist was born too, I made a great work.
    0087.jpg
    Next I'll research fishing, writing, sailing, then philosophy, hopefully I can build the Oracle.


    Spoiler Religion :

    Turn 81 Great Prophet. What would you take?
     
  10. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Warlord

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    Well I understand focusing on the top of the tech tree, but I would do it for Oracle + Sankore, not Parthenon + Hagia (especially not Parthenon....I don't see how this is worth the :c5production:). It's not always possible but I think it is doable to go for Colossus if you managed to get Oracle, especially if the leading wonder spamming civ isn't coastal. An extra :trade: would be powerful, especially for :c5science:, which would be the biggest weakness in an OCC. Also going into the bottom of the tech tree for Arenas and Baths is something I do after going for Philosophy + Education (or sometimes just Philosophy).

    The idea behind being coastal, to me, was being able to send Trade Routes to the Tech leader to catch up on :c5science: if need be and late-game to the Culture leader to get extra :tourism: (twice as much from TRs ending, and a +20% Trade Route modifier). If 1-2 of your neighbours declare war on you, that's the end of all trade, no?

    I do see that having more workable tiles is a strong argument to settle where you did, however.
     
  11. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Chieftain

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    I totally forgot that this is a Pangea game when I was asking about being able to get cargo ships. In my head I was thinking that in a continents game you'd want cargo ships in case the culture hold out was on the other continent.

    For your religion, I imagine you might not have the faith or religious pressure to support spreading much? So maybe going for a religion that does not really try to spread could be best. Also, non building followers would probably be best- maybe science or culture per follower.
     
  12. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN Chieftain

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    Your play through inspired me to start one of my own.

    A question - can OCC build a train station? I'm trying in my game without any success. I tried connecting my capital to a city state... no luck.
     
  13. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    I won't get much science from trade routes, I actually have a tech lead and will probably keep it. Skipping settlers actually improves your science by a lot. The Parthenon is really good, overall one of the strongest wonders in my opinion.

    I thought mastery was a pretty obvious choice for the follower belief.

    You can't build train stations.
     
  14. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN Chieftain

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    Darn. That's a definite weakness - I wish it would be changed like the lower national population required for national wonders.
     
  15. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    Update #2
    Spoiler Religion :

    I take Divine Inheritance. +20% yields in the holy city, which is my only city.
    Golden ages are pretty easy to keep going, and it doesn't require spreading.

    Mastery as my follower belief. It just direclty gives more yields than any other option,
    I have a lot of specialists. Most importantly it gives hammers and culture.


    Spoiler War :

    I didn't get very many pictures here. Persia has attacked me, my small military handles it okay, and I get a great general, that's a historic event.
    I noticed him sneaking units behind me so I positioned a scout to protect my manufactory.
    0093.jpg
    In bad news, Iroquios have settled very close to me, stealing my marble. I denounce him, compelting two CS quests.
    I'm able to stay allied with these two CS, one food and and one faith, for most of the game.


    Spoiler The Oracle has Spoken :

    I enter medieval era the turn the oracle finishes, for a fat 1,000 culture and science. I am first to the medieval era and generally way ahead in science.
    I begin artistry.
    0096.jpg


    Spoiler Food :

    Just a silly picture.
    0099.jpg


    Spoiler More CS Stuff :

    I am able to really Wittenburg, then use two emisaries to ally Zurich, completing this quest for a lot of gold and another golden age.
    I got pretty lucky with CS quests in this game.
    0101.jpg


    Spoiler Second Great Engineer :

    Parthenon or Great Wall? I plan to try both. I also had a great merchant to make a town, and a writer to make a great work.
    My great general stole the marble from Hiawatha.
    0103.jpg
    I can instantly theme the Parthenon. Completing it increases my culture by 24 per turn.
    0104.jpg


    Spoiler Enahnce Religion :

    I'm going for the Great Wall next (according to the tech tree, no one else has engineering)
    Time to enhance religion, what to take?
    0107.jpg
     
  16. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN Chieftain

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    In my game, I went for universalism - between that and St Basil, I managed to reform. My neighbors were the Celts and Babylon, who both founded religions. But what are your prospects of reforming?

    If it looks like you aren't going to be able to spread sufficiently to reform because your neighbors have religions and are actively spreading, I'd go either Iconography or Prophecy. Probably iconography.

    For my reformation belief, I went knowledge through devotion. Purchasing archaeologists with faith was really strong. Sacred sites was my 2nd option. To the Glory of God was unavailable but I might still not have taken it because faith generation on one city is tough - mine was only strong because of knowledge through devotion.
     
  17. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Warlord

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    I now see your point about not settling coastal. This map wouldn't have allowed for reaching faraway civs with coastal Trade Routes anyway.

    I am surprised by how far ahead you've snowballed. I didn't think you'd have built both Oracle + Parthenon so early. Getting so much :c5production:/:c5science: so quickly on an OCC is impressive.

    Iconography is the obvious enhancer belief, and Mandirs the obvious Follower, to me.
     
  18. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    Spoiler Religion :

    Iconography is just outright the best enhancer for tradition, especially if Arabia.
    I went with Synagogues. Mandirs would have been a good choice on old versions but food is just so plentiful right now.

    Hiawatha missed religion, so I can convert him and reform. I might be able to get the Netherlands too.


    Spoiler All Those Wonders :

    Great wall is mine, Sankore will be too.I forgot to mention this earlier, but I rushed education in order to get Oxford university quickly and earn that 150 culture per tech researched.
    0113.jpg
    There isn't a lot to take pictures of here. I just build buildings and use great people. I enter the Renaissance through Chemistry to build the Leaning Tower. I reform my religion on turn 133. I choose Knowledge through devotion, though there are several good options here.


    Spoiler Chicken Pizza :

    This pretty much guarantees I'm a golden age forever. I also get a monopoly on ivory by building the East India company, giving me another 25% length. Golden ages are now 20 turns each.
    0114.jpg


    Spoiler Growth is Nice :

    I discover printing press, I now have 3 Renaissance techs and everyone else is still in medieval era. No world congress because I haven't met everyone.
    0116.jpg
    Globe Theatre is the next wonder. I'm getting +110% growth for extra happiness. This is why I said that Mandirs weren't important.


    Spoiler Turn 156 :
    First influential culture is me. I will enter the Industrial era soon, and I have already taken 1 policy in rationalism. I'm going to build the porcelain tower next.
    0119.jpg


    Spoiler More Wonders :

    Uffizi and Porcelain tower and both mine. Starting on Louvre now. I'm not even using great engineers for this, just planting manufactories.
    0122.jpg



    Spoiler More Science :

    This policy looks pretty good in this situation. I've sent an explorer and paid for open borders to try and find the other civs. Its now the industrial era and there is still no world congress. Faith purchasing archeologists is really strong.
    0123.jpg


    Spoiler First Proposal :
    I find Russia and the Ottomans in a corner of the world. Historical landmarks is really good for me. The AI always support this proposal, so I'll get a positive diplomatic modifier for it too.
    0124.jpg
    Darn I'm last in everything, guess I'm losing.
    0125.jpg
     
  19. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    Spoiler Modern Era :
    I enter the modern era through biology before the first world congress.
    0126.jpg


    Spoiler Archeology :

    I'm the only one with the tech and I can immediately replace archeologists via faith purchases. I find three that are works of writing, meaning I can get three culture bombs.
    0129.jpg


    Spoiler Ideology :

    Turn 193 ideology, I take freedom. At this point my capital works only great person tiles and specialists. I get +140% growth from happiness. Eiffel tower and statue of liberty are both mine.
    0130.jpg


    Spoiler Atomic Era :

    Turn 209 through plastics. I'm influential with all other civs and I'm just waiting for the culture to finish. None of them are showing any sign of aggression yet. I get the World's fair passed, and I can put in enough hammers to get a free policy.
    0135.jpg


    Spoiler A Modest Science Lead :

    No other civs have ideologies yet.
    0139.jpg


    Spoiler Citizen Earth Protocol :

    12 turns? Seriously?
    0144.jpg


    I'm calling that a victory, all I'm doing is clicking next turn and waiting for AI. Sorry for lack of pictures but I spent most of the the end game reading a magazine.
     
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  20. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Chieftain

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    I'm surprised there was hardly any aggression from the AI? Maybe just being so far ahead in tech meant your units were eras ahead and put your military score high enough to ward them off?

    Or maybe Pangea somehow makes it easier to hang out in a corner and let the ai war against eachother?
     

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