Several questions about C3C editing flexibility (mostly workers jobs)

[AvalancheMaster]

If you wonder who the heck I am.

Cheers, mates.

I have several questions about the flexibility of C3C, which I have not seen answered (nor asked) anywhere. They have to do with a Civ 3 modification that I have in mind, which (if possible to create) will focus not on empire building (or WWII in the Pacific style warfare), but on controlling territories outside your empire's borders. Much like Ancient Greece.

Is it possible to?...

* ...make "Irrigate" and "Mine" make the worker disappear, much like "Outpost" and "Colony" do?
* ...make "Irrigate" and "Mine" give shields and food as well? (What I mean, is it possible for Mines to give bonus food/commerce, and not only shields, as I intend to use them as Villages/Slums, and the Villages would "take" one shield to produce 2 food, while the "Slums" will take 1 food to produce 2 shields - a rather simplified explanation.)
* ...make "Airfield" require being build on coast?
* ...make AI work with more than one worker type - like having a "Farmer" worker to build farms, having a "Slave" worker to build roads, and having a military "Defender" worker to build Fortresses and defend them?
* ...allow "Irrigation" on hills?
* ...NOT make AI go nuts if most military units require pop?
* ...make a "settler" unit, that, when settling, makes a unit? (Imagine a "tower building" unit, which build immovable tower at a given location.)

* ...(that may sound more like a request) make a mountain graphic, that will look OK with a fortress-shaped outpost on top?

I may have more questions, but that's all for now. I suppose most of them will have "NO" for an answer, but, heck, I have to give it a shot.

Gratitude and cheers!

 

[Gojira54]

AFAIK, the answer to all are no, except the following:

* ...allow "Irrigation" on hills? - I've had irrigable hills before, and decided I did not like it, but it works, the AI uses it.


* ...(that may sound more like a request) make a mountain graphic, that will look OK with a fortress-shaped outpost on top? - Of course one technically can

* ...NOT make AI go nuts if most military units require pop? - This one I simply do not know the answer to.

* ...make AI work with more than one worker type - like having a "Farmer" worker to build farms, having a "Slave" worker to build roads, and having a military "Defender" worker to build Fortresses and defend them? - You can make specialized workers as you describe, but the AI does not handle them well at all. They would only be good in a multiplayer scenario where all the civs are Human controlled.

Everything else is a No, sorry!

 

[AvalancheMaster]

Well, I'll try to find a way around, thanks for answering. Is there any Worldedit ini file that I can check? (Much like the cracked editor.)

EDIT: So, I did some reading on the topic, and it seems that I'll really have to say "goodbye" to some of the ideas. Definitely not a way to make irrigation/mines require a worker sacrifice. Definitely not a way to make task-specific workers work with AI.

Still, I'm not quite sure if there aren't any ways to make irrigation/mines give not only shields/food bonuses. And I think that I might find a way to implement airports on shorelines only (as harbours).

Any help on this would be appreciated.

 

[gja102]

And I think that I might find a way to implement airports on shorelines only (as harbours).

If you're planning on using a custom map, use a specific terrain for the coasts? Then limit airfields to that?

 

[AvalancheMaster]

I guess there's a miscommunication.

I plan to use custom maps, yes. I want to limit the airfields that workers build to coastal squares only (read "coastal" as in "coastal cities" - that is, adjacent to coasts). I want to use them as ports.

EDIT: Well, there was a miscommunication indeed. I guess I can use the LM Grassland and/or LM Plains. Actually, that is a great idea - I can use the LM terrains to create a "Bay" terrain, which allows "ports".

You, sir, deserve a virtual cookie. Thanks!

 

[gja102]

haha, thanks. I actually thought you would need to use, say, plains for the coastline and grassland for the interior, but then I've never used LM terrains.

 

[T-mun]

I guess there's a miscommunication.

I plan to use custom maps, yes. I want to limit the airfields that workers build to coastal squares only (read "coastal" as in "coastal cities" - that is, adjacent to coasts). I want to use them as ports.

EDIT: Well, there was a miscommunication indeed. I guess I can use the LM Grassland and/or LM Plains. Actually, that is a great idea - I can use the LM terrains to create a "Bay" terrain, which allows "ports".

You, sir, deserve a virtual cookie. Thanks!

Virtual cookie made me laugh...

Irrigation on hills can be seen in the Mesoamerican Conquest IIRC.
In the 3rd Conquest, Fall of Rome, Legionaries are alowed to build cities and Fortresses, and I for one saw the AI use them for building Roads (the map was already cluttered with Fortresses so I guess they didn't need to build more).

There's actually a major problem with using airfields as ports: ships cannot enter a land square if there's no city on it. I don't see how they could enter a tile that wouldn't be coast, but then you can't have workers going there, unless they are sea units and specialized in building airfields, but would that work ?

 

[AvalancheMaster]

I intend to use them as airlifts. I guess I'll just have to forget about airlifting sea units, and restrict to land units only.

Then again, I plan to make only a few units able to be lifted.

 

[Quintillus]

I intend to use them as airlifts. I guess I'll just have to forget about airlifting sea units, and restrict to land units only.

Then again, I plan to make only a few units able to be lifted.

Just tested, and it is possible to airlift sea units. You just need to have pre-placed airfields on the water, and give your ships the airlift ability. Then, voila, airlifted battleships!

There are caveats. The first is that Firaxis's editor doesn't support placing airfields on water. You'll have to use my editor for that (I recommend using it after you're finished editing the scenario in Firaxis's editor, as Firaxis's editor will undo some "unusual" changes like any airfields you've placed on water). The second is that you can use this to transport ships to landlocked areas. The third is that I have no idea how or whether the AI would use this. But, if you really want to, you could probably implement some form of ship airlift.

I think the reason the AI doesn't build forts in Rise of Rome is that the AI never does except one-tile chokepoints and very rarely on two-tile chokepoints.

Quick testing indicates it isn't possible to make ships be able to create airfields as themanuneed suggests, though. I can get ships to have an automated option, but haven't succeeded with other worker options, though the testing hasn't been super-exhaustive.

 

[AvalancheMaster]

I'd actually want to keep it as a tool to transport land units over a tool to transport naval units.

I might start a new thread about this mod, as the actual work (on the computer, except checking functionality) hasn't even started, but the concept is pretty advanced already.

 

[Jorsalfare]

It is possible to make naval units perform worker actions such as building airfields and colonies (in water tiles), but I don't think AI will do it.

 

[AvalancheMaster]

AFAIK, you can also make naval units build cities, which'd be used for a Cthulhu mod... only question is -

if you allow cities on both Naval and Land tiles, and restrict a nation from building a city on land/water by making civ-specific settlers (Nation A has a naval settler, nation B has a land settler), would that restrict land settlers, loaded into ships, build cities while loaded?

Makes me want to check.

UPDATE: Apparently, it does. Loaded a Settler into a Galley, and then build a city on a Coast tile.

 

[T-mun]

could you post a screeny of that ? One screenshot with the settler on the galley and the next one he builds a city in a water tile (please).

 

[Quintillus]

It is possible to make naval units perform worker actions such as building airfields and colonies (in water tiles), but I don't think AI will do it.

You're probably right. I forgot that the terrain settings also need to be changed to allow this.

could you post a screeny of that ? One screenshot with the settler on the galley and the next one he builds a city in a water tile (please).

Seconded. Did you just have to allow cities on coast tiles?

 

[AvalancheMaster]

Yes, you have to allow cities on coast tiles. Then land settlers are able to build them, when loaded into a ship.

 

[T-mun]

One more question: can the other Civ (the one that cannot build cities in water) take the city ? AFAIK a land unit cannot enter a water tile if it doesn't have amphibious abilities. Does it have to be amphibious ?

 

[Quintillus]

Yes, you have to allow cities on coast tiles. Then land settlers are able to build them, when loaded into a ship.

Interesting. I hadn't expected this.

themanuneed's question is also interesting. In addition to that, what I'm curious about is what happens when another civ's ship attempts to move into that square. Is it blocked because of the city, or does it work because it's water (and if so what then)? I'm guessing the former, but surprises are already happening.

 

[AvalancheMaster]

It is not unexpected, since land settlers, loaded into land units (like the Chariot in the Homeric Mod) are able to build cities when loaded. I guess the whole check the game makes is "if TerrainType allows Cities then EnableButton" or something like that. Surely the developers didn't think of checking if the unit is land or naval.

I will test them today or tomorrow, and will post results. Anybody is free to do this before me.