SevoMod 3

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Sevo, Apr 16, 2006.

  1. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

    Dec 20, 2005
    yeah... indeen funny :)
  2. ppease

    ppease Chieftain

    Aug 27, 2004
    I don't have any oil; but I am allowed to build the lowest level tank and also the destroyer and battleship. I think this is a bug.
  3. Brave Sir Robin

    Brave Sir Robin he bravely ran away

    Apr 7, 2006
    Ft. Worth TX USA
    no it isn't they don,t require oil
    also notice you can build a bi-plane without discovering flight :eek:
  4. discolando27

    discolando27 Chieftain

    Apr 15, 2006
    Impaler[WrG] wrote

    On a similar line of though Paper is way too late, being discovered just prior to Printing Press. Paper should be considerably earlier probably before Fudalism, Map trading could get bumped to Printing Press (makes sense you can print large numbers of maps enough to actualy teach another civ about an area). As for what effect Paper could have at that early stage I am not shure.

    Have you ever tought about earlier methods of this like papyrus for example? The ancient egyptians made everything from a writing surface to boats that they sailed up and down the Nile river on, and that's just them.. possible other options might be Vellum, or even the clay tablets, etc.. other options coming through from various ages depending on techs available... that sort of thing could be suitably scarce.. I have a book here somewhere that describes a period when written books were so rare, that feudal lords would literally chain them to their thrones so thieves couldn't get away with them..

    Also concerning things like the statue of Zeus, have you ever read on the history of it, the commerce thing sounds like a good idea, but maybe for a twist give additional construction bonuses for additional materials available such as ivory,ebony, rare woods, gold,etc I'll dig the book up later but that thing was a smorgasboard of building materials oddly enough, not just stone itself
  5. arseface

    arseface Chieftain

    Jul 2, 2005
    Not telling
    Something I forgot to mention before, I was using Grave Eatrs add on before I patched it...
  6. Kommari

    Kommari Chieftain

    Jun 12, 2006
    The game crashes while trying to initiate custom or hot seat game.
  7. schlappi

    schlappi TAM Fanatic

    Jun 20, 2006
    Whats wrong if i dont have any fonts after installing the mod and the patch? :/
  8. Jovianus

    Jovianus Chieftain

    Jun 21, 2006

    This is my first post here on Civfanatics - i've been using the forum a lot over the last few months but haven't posted until now. I thought it would be appropriate if my first post here was a big thank you to Sevo for his great mod, which I have enjoyed since I started playing CIV4.

    I really like all the additions and changes so far, but there are a few improvements I would like to see in a future version or perhaps as an add-on if someone picks up the gauntlet. My primary issue is with unit balancing and separations between the different ages of weapons technology, for example:
    - the AI spam of Grenadiers a few turns after gunpowder is invented (a 400 year technology jump in a few turns!)
    - Biplanes arriving right after Napoleonic era units with no counter measures available (it improved when it moved from Physics but still an issue IMO)
    - SAM infantry being introduced at the same time as WW2 fighters
    - infantry popping up a few turns after Riflemen
    - in a v2.9z campaign i also noticed that the AI jumped directly to Industrialism by-passing assembly line (probably choose refining as a free tech when obtaining Liberalism), which resulted in riflemen and Grenadiers fighting Marines.

    My suggestion would be to:
    1. Ensure that the "rock, scissors and paper" balance is maintained in the different ages of weapons technology and ensure that each unit has a counter. I would also like to see more empasis on strong and weak sides of each unit e.g. Armour should have penalty in woods/jungle
    2. Ensure that each age has historically accurate units for each of the core three arms: Infantry, Shock, and Fire Support
    3. Make more distinct separations between the different ages of weapons technology by making one or two technologies a prerequisite for all units of that age e.g. Assembly Line opens up for WW1 units (as it currently is) and Industrialism opens up for WW2 units.

    The below timeline is just a quick list of the significant "ages of weapons technology" from the top of my head, it includes the approximate years and the relevant CIV4 units:

    1. c4000bc - c750bc: Chariots (Spearmen, Archers and Chariots)
    2. c750bc - c900ad: The Phalanx and Roman Legions (Phalanx, Axemen/Swordsmen, Archers, Horsearcher, catapult)
    3. c900ad - late 15th Century: The age of Cavalry (Knights, Pikes, Longbows, Mace, Cross, Trebuchet)
    4. late 15th Century - middle 19th Century: Gunpowder (Musket, Pike, lance/sabre-type Cavalry, canon)
    5. middle 19th Century - WW1: The age of mass-armies (Riflemen, Grenadiers, Cannons and Cavalry)
    6. WW1 - WW2: Machine Gun (infantry, machinegun, artillery, cavalry, biplane, battleship)
    7. WW2 - modern age: Mechaniced Warfare (tanks, mechanized infantry, airpower, destroyer)
    8. Modern age: Cold War - Modern (helicopters, airpower, missiles, nuclear weapons, cruiser, mechanized, armour etc.)

    With reference to the timeline above I would think that the following changes/additions would be relevant:
    1.1 strenghten Chariots (+25% vs melee, +50% vs archers)
    1.2 exclude bronze as requirement for spearmen
    2.1 include Phalanx (5s, +25% vs melee, +50% vs. mounted, -25% in hills, -25% in forest/jungle)
    2.2 make Bronzeworking more expensive to extend 1st period
    3.1 make Feudalism and Guilds a prerequisite for all middle-age units?
    4.1 include new hussar type Cavalry unit (lance and/or sabre)
    4.2 extend pike & musket period by increasing costs and insert new tech?
    5.1 make rifling a requirement for Grenadiers
    6.1 make Assembly Line the core requirement for all WW1 units
    6.2 make machine gun capable of intercept? (Biplane/Fighter only)
    7.1 move SAM-infantry to modern age and include AA artillery (88mm Flugabwehrkanone (FLAK) AA/AT (14s, 50% vs Armour, -25% vs Gunpowder, 40% intercept, can bombard city defenses (10%) requires Tech_Combustion))
    7.2 make Industrialism the core requirement for WW2 units
    8.1 post WW2/pre modern age units like SAM infantry, Marines and helicopters with Industrialism & Radio (or plastics)
    8.2 make Computers a requirement for all modern age weapons
    8.3 include self-propelled howitzer (s20/m2) to empazize movement (and increase movement of IFV and Modern Armour to 3)

    Other relevant changes:
    - include -25% in forest/jungle for all armoured units (using XML tag <FeatureDefenses>?)
    - apply Exaviers approach to naval combat i.e. each unit has a speciality:
    submarines get attack bonus vs. carrier and battleship, destroyer vs. Submarine, Cruiser vs Battleship etc.
    - reduce max damage for siege weapons to counter the AI artillery spam
    - include B-52 Stratofortress and make Lockheed Corporation a requirement for B-2 Spirit
    - enable F-15 Strike Eagle as a general unit and include new UU for America: F-18 Hornet
    - move MI-26 to Flight (requires Plastics)
    - move Mobile Infantry to Industrialism (requires Radio) and rename to Mechanized Infantry (same unit covers period of WW2 - modern)
    - give Composites a prerequisite of Computers
    - give Refining a prerequisite of Physics
    - Assembly line should require Railroad in a addition to Textiles and Corporation

    Sorry about the long post - thanks again for a great mod!
  9. ppease

    ppease Chieftain

    Aug 27, 2004
    Gee! And to think I was about to go to war over oil. So oil is not a strategic resource? What about iron, coal, uranium, aluminum, etc. Has the concept of strategic resources been eliminated in this mod?

    That oil is not required seems to me to make this mod totally stupid and I will be deleting it. Am I missing something? Why is anyone playing it?
  10. DigitalD

    DigitalD Chieftain

    Jan 8, 2005
    the whole tech-tree is ****ed up.... just an example... w/ "optics" u can build "caravell" which has "cannons" on board... but cannons can be researched much more later... but my caravell has cannons - just stupid...
    this game sucks.... good that i havent spend my money for this ****
  11. rumbold

    rumbold Chieftain

    Nov 22, 2005
    Look to Jovianus' post to see how criticism can be given constructively. Pointing out aspects of the mod that you disagree with can be done more maturely.

    I haven't been able to play this mod enough to get to Optics or Oil, but I'm sure if you just mention these concerns, Sevo with either agree and change, or provide a rational for having the mod as it is.
  12. Blazer6

    Blazer6 King

    Aug 15, 2005
    Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

    (back on topic)
    I have never liked how invulnerable archers are compared to the units of the era. This three power unit shouldn't have so many ways to defend the city and whose sole purpose is forcing players to wait until horse archers and catapults. The unit upgrades to a monster that for some reason has half the city defense but still forces the player to get more advanced units and obsoletes all the early units.
    The archer should also have 25% city defense to make sense and it will still have enough defense what with the AI capability to spam archers on every city.
    I also think that military techs are rather cheap and should have a small increase in research times, my choice of exceptions are catapults, horse archers, and elephants.
  13. rockinroger

    rockinroger WoC Team Member

    Feb 6, 2006
    Overland Park, Kansas
    Sevo: Great mod love the play and new addittions. Im in a game at the modern ages, year 2050. Ive got a couple of ideas suggestions, might be useful, might not. 1st of all it seems that stealth bombers are not really stealth. Ive noticed that regular fighters can shot down or intercept the stealth bomber. It seems to happen about 30- 35% of the time. I guess that seems too much, maybe only 5% of the time? 2nd Sam infantry, since they can intercept aircraft 40% of the time and have a 50% advantage against helicopters, then perhaps some kind of unit promotion along those lines would be useful. Currently when I produce one I will give it extra srength. If I have a second promotion available for it I will usually give it the Pinch 1 promotion mainly for lack of options for the unit. Also in the modern ara the artillery becomes totally useless, IMO. When Im currently attacking a city I use modern armour and the IFV, because of the speed issue. I know when I was in the persian gulf war that speed and mobility where crucial for our success. So perhaps some kind of promotion to radar artillery might be useful? These are just suggestions for improving late game warring. As always I enjoy the mod tremendouslly. Thanks for the hard work!!!!!!:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:
  14. simkodavid

    simkodavid Warlord

    Nov 10, 2005
    Hello SEVO

    I've managed to edit GameFont_75.tga and GameFont.tga, arrows back to coins.

    I think the files are ok.

    I can upload both files compressed, so you can check and verify. It's about 130K.
  15. Brave Sir Robin

    Brave Sir Robin he bravely ran away

    Apr 7, 2006
    Ft. Worth TX USA

    keep going ,oil IS a strategic resource
    you need it for EVERY other type of mechanized unit
    try attacking with the first tank against modern units And see how far you get
    also remember mods are a lot of work done for FREE
    if you dont like the mod DONT PLAY IT ,but temper your criticism
    with that in mind
    I have tried a couple of other mods ,they weren't to my liking
    but look around this topic forum maybe you would like them better
  16. AljayBoy

    AljayBoy Warlord

    Jan 1, 2006
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Lovin' the new version Sevo, well done on a great mod and for getting a patch out so soon too. Just the one bug sofar, with regards to selecting units, it seems I can't select specific units in a stack when holding shift, or selecting units of the same type when holding control. Other than that sofar so good.
  17. ppease

    ppease Chieftain

    Aug 27, 2004
    Sorry that I came across as to harsh. I do appreciate the hard work that Sevo and others have done to create such mods. When I found that I could build that tank and a destroyer when I didn't have an oil I just assumed that it must be a bug. Then when I was told that is was not a bug I guess I was kind of dumbfounded.

    I do hate it when I don't have any oil as I will most likely loose if anyone attacks me; but I do prefer a more realistic game.
  18. homersheineken

    homersheineken Chieftain

    Dec 6, 2004
    When i load the mod, i have no words in the title screen. I can hover over with the mouse and still click on stuff. I can click on the sevopedia and it saves SevoMod 3.0a, but there are no words.

    I deleted the sevomod folder and re-extracted and re-applied the patch.. Any suggestions?? :)
  19. Sevo

    Sevo Leaf on the Wind

    Nov 26, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Not a bad idea about the statue of Zeus.

    I'm not sure about moving paper up. I agree that it doesn't entirely make sense where it is, but it fits well in the tech tree there. Maybe it needs to be called "modern paper" or something...:)

    You probably haven't upgraded your Civ4 version to 1.61! This mod only works under 1.61!

    Holy smokes! Quite a first post! Good stuff, though. I tend to agree with you that maintaining the rock-paper-sicissors stuff is important and I've tinkered with the timing of techs since the beginning of this mod. The problem arises when the AI / human follows a single line of techs that ends with a unit that's far beyond the "mean" of the AI's tech total. I think a good way to look at balancing this is to have the late game units require more than a single technology and I probably need to go back and re-examine the timeline agai.

    Before the release of 2.6 I had a huge chart drawn up with the techs/units/power/skills etc to balance it all out I think it paid off as the current systems seems to work reasonably well given the new units and whatnot, but I'm sure it can be further improved upon.

    You did come across harshly. As others pointed out, this is a hobby for me and for every modder out here. We do it because like the game and enjoy tweaking it. That doesn't mean the mods are always great and certainly constructive criticism is helpful, but ultimately this is all for fun, so lets keep it fun. But thank you for clarifying/apologizing. A lot of folks would have turned this into a flame war...:devil:

    Please feel free to not play this mod (or game). Or, alternately, feel free to create a mod of your own and fix everything that sucks.


    Good points. The longbowmen really hurt with a couple of city defender promos. You can burn an entire stack of cannon on them before your troops have the slightest chance of attacking successfully.

    Very good ideas. You guys are on a roll. There is definitely a need to re-examine the late game units and interactions, and you're right that late-game artillery is totally useless. That was part of the reason I wanted to try the no-capture tank rule. But I'll take a look and see if we can't come up with a better overall schema.

    Awesome. Thanks. That'll save me a pinch and there are certainly plenty of people here who will be happy to have them back. :cry:
  20. Mont

    Mont Chieftain

    May 29, 2006
    I've always liked that dynamic, of being able to break a deadlock by getting just one of the next gen units.. but not getting the full benefit until the other units in that gen are researched. Sometimes making a break for the offensive or defensive units, for example, means my opponent beats me to the other units.

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