Sevopedia Improvement Project

[GiuseppeIII]

I don't have a huge understanding of how to mod, but I would like to try to improve this mods sevopidia and other menus. I think having a well laid out sevopidia gives this mod an incredibly professional and polished look. It will also allow newer players to not be turned away because of the games high learning curve and hard to digest interface and look.

I also believe this is something most people, even if they don't know programming can help with, at least in finding typos, so those who want to help the mod but don't know how can assist with this

I would like to know how modular the interface of the sevopidia is as this could be greatly improved.

Immediately noticeable problems:
The index doesn't work

"Build'g upgrade tab" - is this a typo?

The sevopidia is not full screen - not sure if possible to fix

It takes a while for the sevopidia to open, and the tabs on the sevopidia to open - is there any way to cache do this while the game is loading?

Copy from civilization mega pack modmod sub-forum:

Sevopedia civilization Inconsistencies/Bugs/problems found
Haven't actually read the entries for typos
(Includes the base civilizations and the modmod civilizations)

Spoiler :

Civilizations
Aboriginal - no noticeable problems
Ainu - no noticeable problems
Aka - weird formatting/line splits
Akkadian empire - weird formatting of quote
Albanian - very small - no actual problems
Amazonian - has headers(most other civs don't) no need for strategy part as it doesn't work with c2c anyway
Anasazi - no tabs at the beginnings of paragraphs
Angolan - very small - no actual problems
Apache - weird formatting/line splitting
Arabian - no noticeable problems
Arawak - the icon looks very low-res
Armenian – has middle eastern culture, could be considered European…
Assyrian – no paragraph spacing, uses NSEW as abbreviations for directions – looks confusing, quick skim found typo or confusing statement – the nucleus of a Semitic state was formed…, abbreviated century to cent. for no reason. Has a space at the bottom
Atlantis – Has header (most other civs don't), just a super long paragraph
Australian - no noticeable problems
Austrian - no noticeable problems
Aztec - no noticeable problems
Babylonian – has headers(most other civs don't) no need for strategy part as it doesn't work with c2c anyway
Baktrian – quotes around first paragraph for no reason
Barbarian - no noticeable problems
Balarusian – just 1 long paragraph
Belgian – no space between paragraphs, some weird symbols – of Lià “ge., the eighty years war (1568—1648), etc.
Benin - no noticeable problems
Berber - has headers(most other civs don't) no need for strategy part as it doesn't work with c2c anyway, has Middle East culture – they were more from north Africa then the middle east, icon looks low-res ish, space at the bottom
Bialya – very small – no actual problems
Bohemian – no spacing between paragraphs
Bolivian – small – no actual problems
Brazilian – icon has weird colors at the corners, last paragraph makes no sense
Bulgarian – tbc at the bottom of the entry
Burmese – just one long paragraph
Byzantine - has headers(most other civs don't) no need for strategy part as it doesn't work with c2c anyway
Californian – very small, has an annotation from Wikipedia not removed, typo: Sacramento has been the state capital since 1854 (was missing the “the”)
Cameron – just one long paragraph, name not called empire (vast majority of other civs are)
Canadian - no noticeable problems
Carthaginian – first paragraph doesn't have a tab, space at the bottom
Celtic – first paragraph doesn't have a tab, space at the bottom
Cherokee – no space between paragraphs
Chilean – space at the bottom
Chinese – no noticeable problems
Chippewa – no noticeable problems
Cimmerians – small – 2nd half of paragraph breaks “immersion”
Colombian – very, very small – no actual problems
Comanche - name not called empire (vast majority of other civs are), weird spacing at the bottom
Confederate states of America – name to long to fit in the sevopidia tab, link at the bottom useless – you can't click a link in the sevopidia, name not called empire (vast majority of other civs are)
Congolese – no noticeable problems
Croatian – no noticeable problems
Cuba – name not called empire (vast majority of other civs are)
Dacian – just one long paragraph
Denmark - name not called empire (vast majority of other civs are)
Dutch – has headers(most other civs don't) no need for strategy part as it doesn't work with c2c anyway
Ecuadorian – small – no actual problems
Basques – just one long paragraph, named empire of basque instead of basque empire
Iceland – just one long paragraph , named empire of Iceland instead of Icelandic empire
Oman – just one long paragraph, named empire of Oman instead of Oman empire
English – no noticeable problems
Estonian – just one long paragraph
Ethiopian - has headers(most other civs don't) no need for strategy part as it doesn't work with c2c anyway
Etruscan – icon is low res ish
European Union – not called empire, just one long paragraph
Filipino – no noticeable problems
Finland – not called empire
French – icon looks weird…
Gallic – small – no actual problems
Georgia – not called empire
Germany – no noticeable problems
Gothic – no noticeable problems
Greek – no noticeable problems
Gypsy – just one long paragraph, “ especially Central and Eastern” is bolded for no reason
Haida – no noticeable problems
Hittite – no noticeable problems
Holy Roman Empire – heading/strategy tab
Hungarian – no noticeable problems
Hunnic – first paragraph weird and super small
Huron – small – no actual problems
Illyrian – has a link to the Albanian page – cool but no other civilization page has this, icon low res ish
Incan – no noticeable problems
Indian – no noticeable problems
Indonesian – heading/strategy tab
Inuit – some weird spacing
Iraqi – just one long paragraph
Irish – no noticeable problems
Iroquois – weird blurb at the bottom
Islamic republic of Afrghanistan - not called empire, name to long for sevopidia screen, no spacing between paragraphs
Islamic republic of Iran – small, not called empire
Islamic republic of Pakistan – not called empire, name to long for sevopidia screen
Israeli – no spacing between paragraphs
Italian – no noticeable problems
Japanese – no noticeable problems
Jivaro – no noticeable problems
Jomon – no noticeable problems
Kanem-Bornu – no noticeable problems
Khazar Khaganate – one long paragraph, not called empire, “0965) the Khazars dominated the vast weirdly bolded
Khmer – headings/strategy tab
Gondor – just one long paragraph, called kingdom of not empire
Jordan – called kingdom of not empire, small
Morroco – called kingdom of not empire, middle eastern culture – Morocco is in Africa
Norway – called kingdom of, small, “[note 1]” and “[2]”
Westerns – called kingdom of, very very small
Kiowa – small – no actual problem
Korean – Kim Jung Il is a leader of it – might be better to just have a North Korea civ…
Kuwait – small – no actual problem
Kyrati – very very small – no actual problem
Latverian – just one large paragraph
Latvian – just one large paragraph
Lebanon – just one large paragraph
Libyan – headings/strategy
Lydian – small, “[1]”
Maasi – no noticeable problems
Madagascar – no noticeable problems
Malagasy – no noticeable problems
Malaysia – not called empire
Manlinese – no noticeable problems
Manchuria – no noticeable problems
Maori – no noticeable problems
Maya – headings/strategy, no paragraph spacing
Mexican – no noticeable problems
Minoan – weird paragraph spacing at bottom
Minor nation – “it's a small nation”…
Mississippian – small – no actual problem
Moldovan – one long paragraph
Mongolian – no noticeable problems
Mughal – no paragraph spacing
Native American – strategy/headings, no paragraph spacing, who is there a native America empire? There are already different Native American tribes, might as well just move the leaders to their own respect tribes
Navajo – no noticeable problems
Nazca – called nasca in entry (technically both are right, but it is better to be consistent)
Neaderthal – one long long paragraph, no tab at the beginning of paragraph, low res ish flag
Nepalese – small – no real problems
New Zealand – “[2]”
Nigerian, Nubian, Olmec – no noticeable problems
Ottoman – no tab on first paragraph, space at bottom
Paleo Indians – not called empire, weird icon
Paraguayan – small – no actual problem
Parthian – small – no actual problem
Persian – no noticeable problems
Persian – small – no actual problems
Phoenician – no noticeable problems
Pictish – no noticeable problems
Pirate – space at bottom
Polish – no noticeable problems
Polynesian – no noticeable problems
Portuguese – headings/strategy, no space between paragraphs
Quebec – just one long paragraph
Algeria – not called empire, short
Costa Rica – not called empire, one long paragraph
Honduras – not called empire, very short, no indent on first paragraph
Kazakhstan – not called empire
Kenya – not called empire, very small
Lithuania – not called empire
Uganda – not called empire, very small, no ident on first paragraph
Roman – no noticeable problems
Romanian – no noticeable problems
Russian – no noticeable problems
Sami – one long paragraph
Samaritan – one long paragraph
Saxon – one long paragraph
Scottish – no space between paragraphs
Scythian – no noticeable problems
Senegal – small – no actual problems
Serbian – bolded parts, weird icons, one long paragraph
Siamese – weird indents, no paragraph spacing
Siberian – headings/strategy, no spacing between paragraphs
Slovak – makes no sense at all
Slovene – small – no real problems
Somali – Somalia is in Africa but has middle eastern culture
Songhai – no paragraph spacing
South African – European culture…
Spanish – no noticeable problems
Spartans – not called empire, heading
Sudanese – one long paragraph
Sumerian – headings/strategy, no spacing between paragraphs
Swedish – no noticeable problems
Swiss – no spacing between paragraphs
Syrian – small - no real problems
Ulm – Called TXT_KEY_CIV_ULMDESC, has link at the top – pointless since you can't click on links through the sevopidia
Tanzanian – small – no real problems
Texas – small – no real problems
Bangladesh – not called empire, name is too long for sevopidia
Thracian – one long paragraph
Tibetan – some weird spacing
Toltec – one long long paragraph, weird icon
Transylvania – short – no real problems
Trojan - no noticeable problems
Tupi – no noticeable problems
Ukraine – not called empire
Union – not called empire, one long paragraph
United States – not called empire
Uruguayan – short – no actual problems
Uzbek – some weird spacing
Vandal – headings/strategy
Vatican – not called empire, one long paragraph
Venezuelan – one long long long paragraph
Vietnamese – no noticeable problems
Viking – first paragraph not tabbed
Wakanda – not called empire, short, first paragraph not tabbed
Wales – not called empire
Xiongnu – some weird spacing
Yangshao – no noticeable problems
Yemen – one long paragraph
Zapotec – no noticeable problems
Zimbabwean – headings/strategy, no spacing between paragraphs
Zulu – first paragraph not tabbed, space at bottom

Whew that's it, I might have missed some…


Suggestions:
I think all of the entries for the sevopidia should be made shorter and standardized. It makes them a lot easier to read and digestiable, especially with the area to read being pretty small.

Also it might be better to remove all the prefix and suffixes for the civs (empire, republic of, etc.)

The flags also all don't go together – seems very hard so I understand why it wasn't done, but it would give the mod a very polished feel


I wouldn't mind helping fix the sevopidia, although I'm not familiar with modding and would probably need some help


Other misc sevopidia problems:
Build’g Upgrade tab – I think this is just a typo
Index is bugged


I'll try to do this for the leaders next, if it was appreciated.

Other menus to work on:
Options menus: Currently the options menu before the game starts and the BUG options menu are incredibly confusing due to their bad tootltips. I am going to try to fix this by making these tootltips more understandable/give the player more information on what they are doing/ help the player out with what they should use on their first play and what they should wait to use until they are more experienced.

*more to be added later*

 

[Thunderbrd]

If you're going to improve the pedia, it would be reassuring if you could spell the name of the thread correctly. (Improvement)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Immediately noticeable problems:
The index doesn't work

"Build'g upgrade tab" - is this a typo?

The sevopidia is not full screen - not sure if possible to fix

It takes a while for the sevopidia to open, and the tabs on the sevopidia to open - is there any way to cache do this while the game is loading?

The index should work. If it isn't then we have made an error somewhere with something we added in the last week or so.

It is "Build'g upgrade tab" otherwise it would take up two lines. There is a way to fix this but I think it needs new icons to do so.

All screens in the game are limited to the lowest resolution supported at the moment. We have done some work on changing this. Part of the problem is that I am the one that has to do the changes and I like and play with the low resolution.

There is a bug in the Building part of the pedia. It is loading something it does not need to. Someone pointed out what it was but I did not keep track of that post and I can't see what is wrong with the code.

Problems in the text can be fixed in any text editor. The strange formatting was caused when comparing two versions of the file to get a clean one while combining language translations. The compare program put in random line breaks.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

If you're going to improve the pedia, it would be reassuring if you could spell the name of the thread correctly. (Improvement)

Duh! Stupid on my part Is there a way to change thread titles?

The index should work. If it isn't then we have made an error somewhere with something we added in the last week or so.

It is "Build'g upgrade tab" otherwise it would take up two lines. There is a way to fix this but I think it needs new icons to do so.

All screens in the game are limited to the lowest resolution supported at the moment. We have done some work on changing this. Part of the problem is that I am the one that has to do the changes and I like and play with the low resolution.

There is a bug in the Building part of the pedia. It is loading something it does not need to. Someone pointed out what it was but I did not keep track of that post and I can't see what is wrong with the code.

Problems in the text can be fixed in any text editor. The strange formatting was caused when comparing two versions of the file to get a clean one while combining language translations. The compare program put in random line breaks.

When pushed the index just shows 2,3, and A. (Not on my computer right now, so not exactly sure. However, it was three charachters.) Also when trying to switch from the index to the normal screen, the sevopedia freezes and you have to exit it.

New icons?

I realize it isn't preferable but is it possible to make different versions of the mod for different resolutions, or just a patch for higher resolutions?

The building tab isn't the only one that is slow, the building upgrade tab, unit tab, as well as some other tabs are slow.

Edit:
Any opinions on using platypedia is over sevopedia? Platypedia looks like it has a lot of benefits, though I'm not sure how much work it would take or even how to port it over.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=515013

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

When pushed the index just shows 2,3, and A. (Not on my computer right now, so not exactly sure. However, it was three charachters.) Also when trying to switch from the index to the normal screen, the sevopedia freezes and you have to exit it.

Yep, that means there is an error in something we added just recently and it is most likely the item the index stops at or just after. So the error is a unit or building starting with A.

New icons?

The picture just before the words.

I realize it isn't preferable but is it possible to make different versions of the mod for different resolutions, or just a patch for higher resolutions?

It just needs to be coded. Which means someone needs to look at it and spend time working out what will look good at the various resolutions.

The building tab isn't the only one that is slow, the building upgrade tab, unit tab, as well as some other tabs are slow.

Anything to do with buildings will be slow. There is no caching at all so ever screen is built from scratch when you ask for it.

Edit:
Any opinions on using platypedia is over sevopedia? Platypedia looks like it has a lot of benefits, though I'm not sure how much work it would take or even how to port it over.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=515013

I dislike his pedia but the main difficulty with including any of Platyping's mods is waiting long enough for all the changes and improvements to be made. Start merging too early and you will have to upgrade every week or less to keep up and it is never a straight plug and play job.

The reason the World Builder we have has problems is because it is an early version and converting to the new is not so straight forward.

edit You will note that the upgrade units and building pages are not part of Platypedia for example. At least he removed the right hand bias from his screens by making an option for left handed people.

edit2 I just checked the index and it is working fine now.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

I dislike his pedia but the main difficulty with including any of Platyping's mods is waiting long enough for all the changes and improvements to be made. Start merging too early and you will have to upgrade every week or less to keep up and it is never a straight plug and play job.

The reason the World Builder we have has problems is because it is an early version and converting to the new is not so straight forward.

Ok, so is it a matter of just waiting, or that some like sev better? Probably what I like the most about Platypedia was the ability to sort by lots of different elements - looked liked it would make navigating and finding what you want a lot easier. Right now with the insane amount of buildings and units in the mod, the screen is quite clumsy and takes a while to scroll through.

edit2 I just checked the index and it is working fine now.

Yay

Anything to do with buildings will be slow. There is no caching at all so ever screen is built from scratch when you ask for it.

Is there a reason it is not cached? This could be really useful, especially if you could selectively cache the really slow pages.

It just needs to be coded. Which means someone needs to look at it and spend time working out what will look good at the various resolutions.

At my resolution the boxes for a lot of categories just end up looking super cluttered so it is hard to read and absorb the information displayed. If wanted I could try to test different sizes of the screen on my computer to see what works best?

Edit: the reason I am so interested in this, is that different amount of text and data is probably more readable and easier to understand at higher resolutions, so the resolution effects what I write. I will try to balance the text amount for the higher resolutions (as that is what I use) but will make sure that they remain readable and digestiable at the lower resolutions.

Also would you guys like it if I continued to review the sevopedia pages (as I did for the civilizations) or if I actually started to edit them? - (How exactly would I do this and upload this to the forum?)

 

[Thunderbrd]

Duh! Stupid on my part Is there a way to change thread titles?

Just edit the first post to gain access to renaming it I believe. lol

Is there a reason it is not cached? This could be really useful, especially if you could selectively cache the really slow pages.

Would be a huge and poor use of running memory. Would make things faster but you're asking for the computer to remember a LOT and that gets in the way of more important uses of memory.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Just edit the first post to gain access to renaming it I believe. lol


Would be a huge and poor use of running memory. Would make things faster but you're asking for the computer to remember a LOT and that gets in the way of more important uses of memory.

Thanks! I fixed the title.

If it's not possible to cache the pedia, would it be possible to have an offline pedia that people can alt-tab to? As in is there a way to extract the code and make the pedia usable offline?
This would also be useful in that a lot of times I want to figure out what leaders or civs I want to include in my game but this is hard as I don't want to keep switching between menu.

Edit: If so, would this pedia be editable so as to be easily improved by the community, a wiki of sorts?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm sure it could be designed. But that's way past my skillset unfortunately.

 

[Sparth]

Thanks! I fixed the title.

If it's not possible to cache the pedia, would it be possible to have an offline pedia that people can alt-tab to? As in is there a way to extract the code and make the pedia usable offline?
This would also be useful in that a lot of times I want to figure out what leaders or civs I want to include in my game but this is hard as I don't want to keep switching between menu.

Edit: If so, would this pedia be editable so as to be easily improved by the community, a wiki of sorts?

I think its doable. Just need first skills with PHP/SQL or Wiki and time
Also someone must update this site or write some script to do this.
We have even wiki http://caveman2cosmos.wikia.com/wiki/Civilization
But its old and outdated. Worst even in-game pedia is quite outdated :/

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Also for better sorting, is it possible to divide the tabs with lots of stuff (buildings, units, etc) by tag. So that all culture buildings would be one tab, all military buildings, etc. or all civilizations with European culture, all civs so Asian culture, etc.

Edit: Before I begin reworking the civilization pedia entries what do you think of these suggestions:

I think all of the entries for the sevopedia should be made shorter and standardized. It makes them a lot easier to read and digestible, especially with the area to read being pretty small.

Also it might be better to remove all the prefix and suffixes for the civs (empire, republic of, etc.)

Also why is there a Native American empire when there are different native american tribes. Wouldn't it be better to just put the leaders with their respective tribes, instead of smashing them into one empire.

Edit: removing the prefixes would allow the civilization names to fit on the low-res pedia screen, as well as make the names more standarized

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Also would you guys like it if I continued to review the sevopedia pages (as I did for the civilizations) or if I actually started to edit them? - (How exactly would I do this and upload this to the forum?)

Fixing would be better than just reviewing them because then all we need do is check the result and decide if we should put them on the SVN.

You can post the files here using the "Manage Attachments" button in the "Post Reply" or "Advanced" screen. They would need to be compressed to be loaded.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Fixing would be better than just reviewing them because then all we need do is check the result and decide if we should put them on the SVN.

You can post the files here using the "Manage Attachments" button in the "Post Reply" or "Advanced" screen. They would need to be compressed to be loaded.

Will do, just need to know if you would like me to make them as per my suggestion above?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The content of the pedia is from the XML plus some bits from the dll. All is built from the definitions provided in the XML. Text is the main thing that anyone can fix and add translations to.

If there are translations for the text then care has to be taken when "fixing" the text. Changing the formatting will probably not cause problems but changing the wording may cause the translations to out of date.

If there aren't any translations then changes are not a problem.

Wiki: The main reason that the Wiki project stopped last time was that unlike the pedia it is difficult to adapt to the active options. The display of the icons was also a problem as the game format was not supported in the wiki at the time. No idea if it is now.

Edit Removing Republic or Empire etc from the names may work but wont for all. For example the United States of America and the Confederate States of America.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Edit Removing Republic or Empire etc from the names may work but wont for all. For example the United States of America and the Confederate States of America.

That was the problem, just about all of the civs say empire, but a couple say kingdom, Republic etc. it would be better if they were all normalized to there standard names.

So instead of Roman Empire just Rome
Instead of French Empire just France
The United States Of America is already normalized, it's empire form would be American empire, the reason for the prefix here is to create a distinction, for most of the civ names thin it is useless

Edit: wouldn't it be possible for the different languages to have different text? I could improve the English pedia entries and people could translate them if they want?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Edit: wouldn't it be possible for the different languages to have different text? I could improve the English pedia entries and people could translate them if they want?

Different languages do have different texts, they are in a different language but they should have the same overall meaning.

Translations are welcome.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Different languages do have different texts, they are in a different language but they should have the same overall meaning.

Translations are welcome.

What I meant was that I am currently trying to standardized the pedia entries. So if some pedia entries have translations they won't fit when I am finished, and if that is OK?

Sorry if I was confusing.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

What I meant was that I am currently trying to standardized the pedia entries. So if some pedia entries have translations they won't fit when I am finished, and if that is OK?

Sorry if I was confusing.

If the translations don't match they should be commented out so it is obvious to those doing translations that something has changed.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

If the translations don't match they should be commented out so it is obvious to those doing translations that something has changed.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

What do you mean by this?

Say I wanted to change the name of Subdued Aardvark. The old is

	<TEXT>
		<Tag>TXT_KEY_UNIT_SUBDUED_AARDVARK</Tag>
		<English>Subdued Aardvark</English>
		<French>
			<Text>Oryctérope (App.)</Text>
			<Gender>Male</Gender>
			<Plural>0</Plural>
		</French>
		<Italian>
			<Text>Oritteropo addomesticato</Text>
			<Gender>Male</Gender>
			<Plural>0</Plural>
		</Italian>
		<Polish>Poskromiony Mrównik</Polish>
	</TEXT>

To indicate to the translators and to make sure the translations are not wrong I would change it to

	<TEXT>
		<Tag>TXT_KEY_UNIT_SUBDUED_AARDVARK</Tag>
		<English>Subdued Antediluvian Aardvark</English>
<!--
		<French>
			<Text>Oryctérope (App.)</Text>
			<Gender>Male</Gender>
			<Plural>0</Plural>
		</French>
		<Italian>
			<Text>Oritteropo addomesticato</Text>
			<Gender>Male</Gender>
			<Plural>0</Plural>
		</Italian>
		<Polish>Poskromiony Mrównik</Polish>
-->
	</TEXT>

This way the correct English version appears in game not the incorrect translation and it shows what the previous translation was.

(Antediluvian means before The Flood and is a good alliteration for Aardvark.)