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SG Interest?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by jarred!, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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    Just trying to drum up some interest in an SG. Being inexperienced, I don't feel confident attempting to host one, however.

    Skill-wise, I play at monarch pretty successfully, and would be interested in a foray into higher levels (especially if there are superlatively better players whose coattails I can ride).
     
  2. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    I probably have time to play in a SG right now. Count me in.
     
  3. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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    Great! I figure 4-5 people is ideal? Any thoughts on difficulty? Or variants?
     
  4. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone cold fish

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    Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's really up to you. To help generate more interest, it might be helpful if you could tell us a little more about why you're interested in playing an SG? Is there something you specifically want to do here?
    • 'Just' play a straight epic-game, but levelled-up from Monarch to Emperor (or DG, or even *gulp* Deity)?
    • Aim for a Victory Condition you've never attempted/achieved previously?
    • Use a Civ you've never won with before?
    • Play a variant you've never played before, e.g. Always War, 5-City Challenge, One-City Challenge?
    • Set specific rules/restrictions yourself, that you think might make a game more interesting?
    • Some combination of the above?
    See, some Civ-players are warhawks, some are builders, some like to do a bit of everything. But the players you ideally want to attract to an SG, are the ones who are interested in playing the same kind of game as you are, and can commit the time needed.

    Spoiler To use myself as an example... :
    I usually play solo-games at Emperor, and win most of them (I can survive at DG, but have not won any attempts to date) -- but because I prefer to play mostly-/all-Random starts, my games tend to end in Space, Diplo, or Domination (or defeat, of course, but let's not talk about those!). However, I've never won a Culture victory, nor spent much time looking into how best to do that. So I wouldn't call myself a 'superlative' player by any stretch. And I regard SGs as a means of widening (my) horizons -- so I'd be more interested in, say, a 20K or 100K attempt (especially if @CKS is also playing, since s/he already has a few CFC-HoF/GotM entries in those categories, IIRC?), than I would in a(nother) Space-game -- but not beyond my current level.
    Once people know what's on the table, you're more likely to get firm decisions on whether they want to sit in. And only once you've decided what you want to do (and if it hasn't already been set as part of by the game-aim), is it worth discussing e.g. Map-type, home Civ, or potential Rivals (IMHO).
     
  5. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    I'm up for any kind of game. What sounds like fun?

    In my solo games, I tend to play culture games or fast research games, and I'd say I'm pretty good at them (not superlative, though). Military games I'm not so good at, but I've enjoyed military succession games that I've played.

    I'm comfortable at emperor and below; demigod I can usually win at, but it is a struggle; deity and sid require good maps for me to have any hope.
     
  6. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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    Ok, so:
    I was a builder, but I've been trying to get better at warring, especially since I'm trying to play on higher difficulty levels. It seems being able to fight effective, efficient wars is becoming more and more prudent. I still find myself building unneeded infrastructure (say, libs and unis in a small conquest game).

    I feel comfortable playing on monarch. I like spaceship games where I can build but also need to knock out powerful rivals. I've not ventured much past monarch until recently. With the current GOTM on diety, I started a diety and a Dg test-game to see if I could manage Zero Research, but haven't gone back to the saves to try to complete them.

    A higher level 100k sounds fun. Maybe on a high enough level that we'll have real competition or at a lower level, but with unfavorable map settings.

    Thanks for the feedback!
     
  7. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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    RULES:
    We'd follow gotm rules, with one exception: ROP abuse. Additionally, all wars in which we are the aggressor must be started BEFORE entering enemy territory.
    Have fun! (We are playing a game)
    24hr "got it/pass" after the new save has been shared. We all have lives off The Internet, but I would also like to keep the game going. When each new save is posted, we'll have a team discussion of the current situation and what to do during the next turnset. The next player will have another two days to play their turnset once discussions have concluded.
    C3C 1.22

    MAP SETTINGS:
    Difficulty: Emperor or Demigod?
    Map size: Large
    Map Geography: Archipelago, 30/70
    Climate: warm
    Temperature: wet or temperate?
    Age: 5 billion
    barbs: none

    Our civ: up for debate
    AI civs: currently random
    in game rules: allow dom, space race, diplo, conquest, culture. preserve random seed. allow cultural conversions, allow scientific leaders.
    AI aggression: normal?

    Although all vcs are enabled, we will be going for cultural 100k (130k). If we can get 4 players, that'd be great!
     
  8. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    Playing for 100k on archipelago will be interesting. With random AI civs, emperor will be plenty challenging, I think.

    How many opponents? The more opponents we have, the harder it will be.

    Thoughts on our civ:
    A civ that is neither religious nor scientific will be challenging, since we get little benefit from ToA due to playing archipelago.
    Agricultural is always a useful trait, and seafaring will be handy here.
    For easier games: Celts, Sumerians, Byzantines, Babylonians, Spain, Dutch, Vikings.
    For harder games: Mongols, Zulu, Americans
     
  9. Nathiri

    Nathiri Commander

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    I could be interested.... I've only played one SG with tjs there.
     
  10. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone cold fish

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    Large map = 12 Civs (at least if you fully populate it -- but not doing that kinda feels like cheating, plus it makes resources "scarcer" relative to land area) = more (potential) trade routes = more processing time required = turnsets take increasing time to play, especially during the mid to late game. So for an SG, a Standard map (8 Civs) might be preferable, to reduce interturn calculations, so people don't get bored playing their set (or waiting for it to come around!)

    As for difficulty, don't forget that for 100K (or 130K), it's not just hitting that Culture-target, you also have to have 2x as much Culture as the next-best Civ. At DG, not only will the AIs be able to grow/ build/ research ~30% faster than you, they also start with an extra Settler. So their core (towns) will likely be established, and at the point of starting their Temple-/ Library-building (especially if REL and/or SCI), that much earlier than yours will -- and they will thus also tend to hit the magic 1000-year Cultural-doubling earlier.

    So unless you manage to keep them all isolated/ backwards, or keep them from expanding, winning by Culture at DG is not likely to be at all straightforward. That said, I do have to admit that a 30% Archi-map -- especially if Large -- would help with both of those 'aims' -- plus the AI also generally won't settle closer than CxxxC unless circumstances demand it, so will tend to have fewer towns per land area than your SG-team.

    For a first attempt at this VC, though, I still probably wouldn't dare go higher than Emp.

    *Clucks faintly*
    Babs (REL + SCI) are an obvious 'easy' choice for a 100K attempt, since they get nearly all their Culture-buildings half-price, but the Bowman UU near guarantees an early (likely still Despotic) GA, without guaranteeing the simultaneous fast conquest to subdue the neighbours and populate their lands (especially if it has to be done overseas). OK, the Temples will go up super fast, but the GA will probably already be over before Lit is researched, never mind Monotheism/Education.
    On an Archi-Map, SEA does seem like it would be really useful, but wouldn't you want at least one of the cheap-Culture traits?

    AGRI + SEA = Dutch, but obviously they get no cheap Culture -- although lots of food/pop to whip into early Temples, and possibly later Libs, if Philo is used to take Lit instead of Republic? (Heresy, I know!)
    SEA + SCI = Byzzies. I've seen them recommended for 20K games (to build the coastal GWonders in Byzantium, IIRC), but how good are they for 100K? I do enjoy flaming land-units with Dromons, though...
    SEA + REL = Spain. The Conquistadore is a fairly poor UU for warmongering at the time when it becomes available, but for 100K, most of the conquering would have had to be done (long) before that point anyway, right?

    Celts (REL + AGRI) are also a regular goto for 100K, I believe (at least on Continent/Pan maps)? Not SEA, but it does seem like one or the other of those traits would probably be better sacrificed, and AGRI is generally stronger than SEA, regardless of map-type.
    Rather than Random, I'd suggest maybe picking rivals who are neither AGRI, SCI, nor REL, which leaves:
    • SEA
      • English (+COMM)
      • Portuguese (+EXP)
      • Carthaginians (+IND)
      • Vikings (+MIL)
    • MIL
      • Romans (+COMM)
      • Mongolians (+EXP)
      • Zulu (+EXP)
      • Chinese (+IND)
    • IND
      • French (+COMM)
      • Americans (+EXP)
    • EXP
      • Hittites (+COMM)
    That list would allow you to fully populate even a Large Archi-map. On a Standard Archi-map, I'd probably consider ditching the 4 SEA-Civs, just to keep the AIs isolated from one another that much longer.
     
  11. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    If I wanted an early win, definitely. If I wanted more challenge, maybe not.
    The dutch are interesting also because their UU makes overseas invasions more plausible before you have an MGL.
    Scientific civs are particularly good for 100k games without ToA, since libraries, universities, and research labs are all half-price. (With ToA they aren't so good, since they only build libraries. Half-price cathedrals are a better choice.) Unless we get a continent-sized starting landmass, ToA won't be worth it here.
    It is hard to guess when conquering will be done, but a conquistador army is great for pillaging.
    If I were picking civs on an archipelago map, I'd ditch ones with alphabet and make sure I had it. This not only gives me a head start in getting philosophy, but it also gives me early contacts while keeping the AI from contacts. Also, I'd not put the Vikings in the game. Random civs will make for a more challenging game, but on emperor we don't need to take _every_ advantage there is.
     
  12. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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    I see us either:
    Picking babs and losing all civs that are SEA, REL, or SCI yielding: Rome, China, Aztecs, Iroquois, Mongols, Maya, America, France, Zululand, Hittites, and Inca. This gives us cheap culture but we don't start with Alphabet (and some rivals will).
    Or:
    Picking rivals who don't have Alphabet (and I also crossed out all the REL rivals too) leaving: Germany, China, Aztecs, Mongols, Sumeria, Maya, Russia, America, Persia, Zulu, and Inca. Then we choose Spain or India (Alphabet and Religious).
     
  13. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I'd be interested in joining. I've been playing a lot of CCM lately, so a normal epic SG would be a nice change of pace :)

    I'd lean towards random civ and opponents for the more challenging game, but I'll be happy with any mix you decide on.
     
  14. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    I'd also be interested. I've written Civ stories and played a Sim City 4 succession game here, but have never played a Civ3 multiplayer game over the Internet, succession or otherwise.

    Emperor sounds most appropriate to me, although I like the idea of going with a random civ rather than a cherry-picked one. Also should note upfront that I will be traveling at the end of the year (and it wouldn't surprise me if some others are as well) and I may not be able to fit in a turnset during that half-week.
     
  15. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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    ROSTER:
    1. jarred!
    2. CKS
    3. tjs282
    4. Nathiri
    5. Elephantium
    6. Quintillus

    If everyone who's posted in this thread is confirmed, then let's close enrollment at 6.

    Seems like we're split between cherry-picking our civ and rivals or not, so let's go with random opponents but chose our own civ? I think REL is our choice trait, but hesitate to choose Babs due to their early uu.
    I think Spain is a powerful civ. +1 movement for easier early exploration, and cheap temples.

    As for the start: I'd prefer to roll 4 starts and we choose our favorite.
     
  16. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    That sound fine to me.
     
  17. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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    I'll post some starts in a new thread this evening (eastern time, usa), and post the obligatory link in this thread.

    Spain, Emporer, Large Archipelago, 100k
     
  18. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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  19. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

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    Ok, time to discuss the next game.
    Roster:
    1. @jarred! (Re-enlisted)
    2. @CKS (Re-enlisted)
    3. @tjs282 (On holiday? Not yet re-enlisted)
    4. @Elephantium (Not yet re-enlisted)
    5. @Judminder (Re-enlisted)
    6. @SuedecivIII (Enlisted)

    Nathiri is out this game. @Quintillus gets an honorable mention. @Captain_Jack was interested a few months ago.

    If anyone is interested in playing a specific variant, now is the time to speak up. Personally, I'm interested in either playing a high difficulty level game (DG or Deity), conversely I'd also be interested in playing a Monarch or Emp game but deliberately choosing a difficult start (e.g. desert) for some extra difficulty if we go that route. If everyone would rather me choose the settings, I do have some ideas.

    I think we should have a better description of what exploits are allowed and banned, though:
    House Rules:
    No RoP abuse
    Declare war before entering enemy territory
    No dogpiling (adding workers to a starving city)
    No changing laborers pre-production phase
    No scout resource denial
    No trade route cutting

    I'm sure I've missed some that we'll want to ban, so I'm open to suggestions. And any other ideas sometime has about rules or settings are welcome!
     
  20. SuedecivIII

    SuedecivIII Warlord

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    I like higher difficulties/challenging starts. Usually in my high difficulty games I use war as a bit of a crutch. It would be nice to explore peace time strategies too. Although obviously, we play the start we're given, and choose the best course of action based on what we have.

    The rules sound good.

    It would be nice to see what ideas other players have about what kind of game settings. The only preference I have would be not a super big map (so not "huge" size, and not "large" size if it's 60% water)

    I had one question about the barb patrol = 1 line in the .ini file. Do we still do that? I researched into it and I've read that you should have it set =0 for multiplayer. But I can switch it back and forth if it's still important.
     

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