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SGOTM 01 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, May 8, 2006.

  1. Redbad

    Redbad should have shaved

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    Cathy’s gems city
    We have 5 axes, 2 of which are City Raider II. The City Raiders II are on their way to Memphis to heal. We could send the other 3 axes in advance to inspect Cathy’s gems town. They will be walking the hills and can camp in the jungle next to Cathy’s town. Maybe we’d even provoke Cathy to attack them, so giving 1 axe a Combat I promotion is in order. I don’t expect to meet tougher defenders then City Garrison I archers. The town however will have noticeble culture defense and is most likely on a hill.
    My estimation would be that we can attack the city using the present 5 axes and the fourth warrior when there are no more then 2 defending units. For each additonal defender I recomment 2 to 3 axes/swordsmen extra, depending on what kind of defenders Cathy has.
    For an attack strategy I recommend attacking healty defenders with City Raider I units (who will probably die) and then attack the wounded defenders with the City Raiders II units (who will probably prevail).

    After capturing the gems city I suggest we make peace with Cathy. It will give us 10 undisturbed turns to get fresh troops to the front. I expect Cathy to accept as the war then will have been going on for some time and she has suffered the loss of 2 towns.


    clam
    Seafood is mostly vulnerable when in war, and our clam is no exception. Defending it with a galley gives 50% security against an attack by Cathy. Defending it with 2 galleys gives nearly a 100% security. As a galley cost 50 shields, that’s quite a price to pay for maintaining our clam. O.t.o.h. when we’ve gotten rid of Cathy we’ll need galleys anyway to continu our expansion. Nevertheless building a workboat and 2 galleys now (130 hammers = 3 swordsmen) is very inconvenient.
    After refecting on this a little longer, I’m getting in favour of not reusing the clam in the short run. When we order the worker after mining the iron to farm the riverbank near Memphis and after we have captured Cathy’s gems town, Memphis can work the following tiles:
    02 02 city center
    02 04 copper
    04 02 grass cow
    03 00 farmed riverbank
    00 04 mined plains hill
    00 04 mined plains hill
    That will give us 16 hammers and 0 food (we need 10 for citizens and 1 for health). Thebes has to continu working the rice. So the trade of is extra workerturns and lost commerce for saved hammers. When in war I think it’s a good trade.
    An alternative could be starving Memphis 1 pop. That would free us from the need to farm the riverbank. However I’m not really in favour of starving as I consider it to be a waste.

    research
    You propose Construction. Yes of course, by all means. I’m wasn’t counting on being able to use Civil Service any time soon. On the contrairy, I expect our economy to collaps within the next few turnsets. After all we are planning on capturing all of Cathy’s cities and we have no time to build any courts before we accomplish that. O.t.o.h. it’s quite possible we can get Construction within a reasonable timeframe. So, please do.
     
  2. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Thanks Bede and Redbad. :thanx:

    Reading your posts, I think it best to change to Construction and try to take Cathy's city near Memphis, then sue for peace and whatever we can get from her. This should allow us to use the clam to get production back in Memphis as well as give us some time to prepare properly for an assault on Moscow. In addition, this should limit war weariness, get us another happy pill, spend some worker turns on Heliopolis (getting it up to speed) and speed research by allowing Thebes to work another cottaged FP.

    How do these objectives sound? I'll try to get it done this evening. :mischief:
     
  3. Capt Buttkick

    Capt Buttkick Emperor

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    Sounds good, leif. And I agree with switching to Construction.
     
  4. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    << THE SAVE >>

    The turn log:
    400 BC Turn
    Pre-flight
    Change research objective from Civil Service to Construction, due in 18 turns.
    Iron mine due in 5 turns.
    Everything else looks fine, so on we go.

    IBT
    Gandhi comes calling and wants to trade Monotheism to us for Iron Working. I decide to wait as we really do not need Mono at the moment.

    Turn 1 - 385 BC
    Heal an Axe in Memphis.
    Move a wounded Axe into Memphis.

    IBT
    Memphis Axe => Workboat.
    Thebes Axe => Axe.

    Turn 2 - 370 BC
    Promote 2 Axes to City Raider 1.
    Begin moving 2 Axes towards Cathy&#8217;s city for a recon.

    IBT
    Cathy lands a Chariot near Memphis.


    Turn 3 - 355 BC
    Promote an Axe to Combat1 and attack the Chariot (74.9% odds), we lose.
    Attack with a second Axe and kill the Chariot, no damage to the Axe.
    At Heliopolis, Worker completes pasture on Cow, moves to next cow and starts another pasture.
    We reach the hill near St. Petersburg and find an Archer and a Spear in the city.
    Move an attacking force towards St. Petersburg consisting of 3 Axes with City Raider1 and 2 Axes with City Raider 2.

    IBT
    Cathy Reinforces St. Petersburg with another Spear.

    Turn 4 - 340 BC
    Move the 5 Axes next to St. Petersburg.
    Promote the Axe that defeated the Chariot to City Raider 2 and move towards St. Petersburg.

    IBT
    Thebes Axe => Swordsman.

    Turn 5 - 325 BC
    Iron mine complete, worker goes to begin road to Heliopolis so we can move units quickly towards Russia.
    Move final Axe into position and notice that somehow I sent a Warrior?
    Cathy has reduced the Garrison back to 1 Archer and 1 Spear. The odds are not too good for us.

    IBT

    Turn 6 - 310 BC

    OK, here we go. St. Petersburg has 40% culture by the way!!
    CR1 Axe attacks an Archer (5.00 versus 7.95: 2.9%) Axe dies and Archer is now 2.1/3 and still on top.
    CR2 Axe attacks same Archer (5.00 versus 5.04: 56.4%) Our Axe wins, now at 0.6/5.
    CR1 Axe attacks Spear (5.00 versus 4.8: 64.7%) Our Axe wins and we take St. Petersburg! We install a Governor and take 150 Gold!!
    Enter the city with our Axes and upgrade the Warrior to an Axe for 110 Gold.
    Dial up Cathy and she will only do a peace deal straight up, I agree.

    IBT
    Memphis Workboat => Sword.

    Turn 7 &#8211; 295 BC
    Workboat to Clam tile.
    Set units to heal or fortify in St. Petersburg.

    IBT

    Turn 8 &#8211; 280 BC
    We start working the Clam again and reconfigure Memphis and Thebes.
    Changing Thebes from Rice to Cottaged FP drops research time by 2 turns, Construction now due in 7 turns.
    Heliopolis grows to size 3 and works 2 cows plus a FP.






    IBT
    Thebes Swordie => Swordie.
    Cathy rebuilds a city near our Iron source, damn her!!

    Turn 9 &#8211; 265 BC
    Start a Sword towards Cathy&#8217;s new city.
    Start an Axe towards it as well.
    Worker completes plains cow pasture, heads for horses.

    IBT

    Turn 10 &#8211; 250 BC
    Start a Courthouse in St. Petersburg.
    Worker starts a pasture on horses.

    After Action Report
    We have taken St. Petersburg. 1 Axe was lost and we killed a chariot, an archer and a spear. There are no buildings in St. Petersburg. Cathy rebuilt her city by the iron. She does not have Iron. She is up Monotheism, Monarchy and Calendar while we are up Code of Laws and Alphabet. There are 6 more turns left in our peace deal, if I counted correctly.

    Our maintenance requirement is growing and we will need to think about some courthouses soon. Construction is due in 5 turns at &#8211;6 GPT and we have 134 Gold in the treasury.

    Cathy&#8217;s culture is significant, so we need to get some Cats built, prolly 5 or 6, before we can try to grab Moscow.

    Our empire:


    Good luck Romeo.
     
  5. Redbad

    Redbad should have shaved

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    Well done, leif. You captured us a supreme city, which could become both very productive and commerce rich.

    My thoughts:

    war
    We have 10 turns of peace in which we can build a new force and after which we can attack again. We now have 3 warrior, 7 axes and 1 sword. Having 4 cities who need garrisons, that would cost us the 3 warrior and 1 axe. I don't like having an axe on garrison when he's needed at the front. So I suggest switching Petersburg from court to archer. The archer can be build in 8 turns. The court, costing 180 hammers, will atm reduce city maintenance by 2 coins; not a high priority I think ;) .

    Thebes needs 3 turns on the sword and then 4 turns swords. Memphis needs 2 turns on the next sword and then 4 turn swords. Helio still has a rax to build and so can't contribute to the war in 10 turns. Looking at these figures it isn't necessary to research construction in 5 turns. Construction in 6 is fast enough and saves us 4 gpt.

    If we agree on the above that would mean we can invade Russia after 10 turns, having:
    present force now: 7 axes + 1 sword
    Thebes : 2 swords
    Memphis: 2 swords + 1 catapult
    Totalling: 7 axes + 5 swords + 1 catapult. That sounds like a fine invasion force to me.

    Within the next turnset I would sent all our army to Petersburg. Yakutsk only has 1 archer that won't go out of town. When at war we can capture it with replacement forces from Thebes and Helio. Best to wait until Yakutsk hits size 2 to avoid destroying it again upon capture. Yakutsk is founded at a decent spot. It can work the iron and the sugar. With Civil Service we can irrigate the plains and grass for production or we can cottage it for commerce.

    Diplomatic
    Looking at Cyrus and Gandhi, I see Cyrus lacking in research, don't having resources to trade and still without a religion. I think Cyrus is telling us he wants to be our next victim ;)
    Gandhi is a brother in the faith, has resources and techs. I think he should be our best pall. I think we should do trades with him. I suggest iron for mono and later (if he wants) construction for calendar. Holding back on trades will both keep him and us dumber and thus weaken us wrt our further away living rivals.
    I suggest we trade our rice to Gandhi's pigs as well. It has no effect on our health but will enhance our relation with him.
    If we treasure our relation with Gandhi it will become very likely that he will assist us in a future war with the "evil" persians :)
     
  6. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I like your concept but I think we may need at least a couple of more Cats. St. Petersburg was at 40% culture and we captured no buildings within it. (Doesn't mean they weren't there) I wish I knew what Moscow's cultural rating was? I checked the Info Screen and no wonders are listed under Moscow, so I could be wrong and your force will be sufficient?? :crazyeye: Thebes' cultural rating is currently 60%... ;)

    I moved the units near Yakytsk because I thought we might want to destroy it to keep our supply of Iron flowing, however, capturing it would certainly be a better solution! :thumbsup:

    And an Archer is a good solution for St. Petersburg too. I wasn't sure what to build? :rolleyes:

    And the Rice trade is a great idea as there is more SW of St. Petersburg. :D

    EDIT - It would also be nice to capture some workers at Moscow, we really need a few more. :p
     
  7. DJMGator13

    DJMGator13 Wondering why Builders can't build Roads

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    Good turns leif and a nicely laid out plan from Redbad.

    A 2nd cat could be very useful in reducing Moscows cultural defense. Can a single cat reduce it enough to offset each turns additions to the cultral defense?

    Looks good.
     
  8. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

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    lurker's comment: Even though we are rivals in Civ3 SGOTM, I wish you all good luck and happy hunting in this first [civ4] SGOTM. You guys are planning on beating up the AI right?:hammer:
     
  9. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Thanks for the well wishes! :thanx:

    The name of the game is Domination, so :hammer:
    :mischief:
     
  10. Capt Buttkick

    Capt Buttkick Emperor

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    Yes, it can, but it's very slow work. I think 2-3 cats would be better and faster all round.

    :goodjob: leif
     
  11. romeothemonk

    romeothemonk Order of the Engineer

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    Well, I gots it. I would like to have 3-5 cats to take on Moscow.
     
  12. romeothemonk

    romeothemonk Order of the Engineer

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    Ok guys, we had a slight change in plans.

    First the necessary stuff:
    Turn 150, 250 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!

    Turn 151, 235 BC: Archimedes has been born in a far away land!

    Turn 152, 220 BC: Nabu-rimanni has been born in a far away land!

    Turn 153, 205 BC: You have discovered Calendar!
    Turn 153, 205 BC: You have discovered Monotheism!
    Turn 153, 205 BC: Xteam adopts Organized Religion!
    Turn 153, 205 BC: Taoism has been founded in a distant land!

    Turn 154, 190 BC: You have discovered Construction!

    Turn 155, 175 BC: You have discovered a source of Copper near Memphis!
    Turn 155, 175 BC: The Great Library has been built in a far away land!

    Turn 156, 160 BC: The borders of St. Petersburg have expanded!
    Turn 156, 160 BC: Huayna Capac adopts Theocracy!
    Turn 156, 160 BC: Cyrus converts to Judaism!


    Ok, now what this means. Huyana is up Philo, Theology, and currency. We really lack cities!! We founded Kung fu and have no courts. We still have 2 workers.

    Based on this, I built 2 more workers, started some cats, and tried to hook up resources. To compete technologically, we are going to need to build the red circle city for income!!

    We also need to plant some courts. I started using the workers to give us some mobility, and to hook up some cows for trading.

    We can attack Cathy anytime now, but I would wait for 3 pults to quickly pull down defenses.

    A highlight that is good
     
  13. Redbad

    Redbad should have shaved

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    Ooh man, I don't like this.

    We now have 4 workers all doing the wrong things:
    one connected our fourth cow (and no one wants beef)
    one cottaging near Helio which is meant for high production
    one building a road SE of Thebes leading nowhere
    one finished a piece of road leading back to Yakutsk
    (Yakutsk can be connected roading one tile N off the city)

    Romeo, it's really useless to have 4 workers when they don't do the things that will get us ahead. It's a matter a priority. And priority is mining the plains hills near Helio and the grass hills near Petersburg. Especially the last would have had direct result. We must not do the things that are useful in the future, we must do the things that are useful now.

    But as there already was a post on when to road, I expect you have decided to ignore those arguments. So I hope your successor will limit the damage and put an end to the silly roading.

    I had hoped we could rely on Cathy to supply us with the needed workers as they have really no place to hide. When our army takes Moscou I would be suprised it there wouldnt be a worker to capture.

    With regard to our domination goal.
    Helio is building a catapult in 4 turn which will need 7 turns to get to Petersburg, so that 11 in all.
    Thebes is building a catapult in 2 turns which will need 5 turns to get to Petersburg. Thats 7 so Thebes can throw in a 4-turn sword extra.
    Memphis is building a catapult in 1 turn which will need 2 turns to get to Petersburg. So Memphis can throw in another 2 swords.
    When Petersburg will build an archer, we can have the next force ready for Cathy in 11 turns: 7 axes, 6 swords and 3 cats. I think most will agree that that could be a sufficient force.
    Now hope that Cathy has not build up to many military during the delay.
     
  14. romeothemonk

    romeothemonk Order of the Engineer

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    We lost our horses, which lead to chariots, which is by far our best MP unit. We really want to be able to build cheap quality defenders if we need to.
    We had a total lack of general roads. Mobility both to and from the battlefront are huge plus's in my book. I always prioritize roads, especially to connect cities.
    To be fair, I don't remember reading a post on worker movements, but, we that shouldn't be a huge deal.

    One thing we should really consider is putting a spear in the stack to attack russia. They will have some chariots, and a spear or 2 will really eat them alive, allowing our city attacking units to be at full strength. I would add in 2 spears, promoting both to combat 1 and then making 1 of them a medic ASAP.
     
  15. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I understand what you're saying Redbad. ;)

    How about this trial balloon for a plan:
    We can pop rush the Cat in Heliopolis for 1 pop point. That will remove the citizen from the FP. That city will have 1 unhappiness for 15 turns, but we get an extra 30 hammers for the pop rush (60 for 1 citizen) We can then set the city to Confucian Temple to gain another happiness.

    In Thebes, after the Cat completes, A Sword or 2 for Yakutsk, once Yakutsk grows, and then we could start an Aqueduct, in preparation for Hanging Gardens (we'll need to build a Quarry on the stone hill). ;)

    In Memphis, we can start another Cat or change to a Sword (4 turns each) and be ready to move to the attack in about 8 or 9 turns. Memphis shold continue to pump out units as it can build a Sword, Axe or Cat in 4 turns. Although I would like faster reinforcements, this may have to do. :rolleyes:

    St. Petersburg changes immediately to Archer, completes in time to begin movement on Moscow. :hammer:

    Worker priority:
    Northern 2 workers mine plains hills
    Southern 2 workers to the hills south of St. Petersburg to mine.
     
  16. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Almost forgot??

    Roster:
    Bede - UP
    Redbad - On Deck
    Leif
    Brad
    - waiting for his return
    Capt - requested skip
    Romeo - Just played
    Gator - Hobnobbing until the 9th. :D
     
  17. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    Got it for tonight. One invasion in the works
     
  18. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  19. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    I am normally don't chase strays but my assessment said these were not strays, more like an invasion force. And the lost cat will be replaced by one whipped out of the unhappy Russians at St Pete. As soon as war was declared the town went to starvation level rioting.

    There is good cvoer all the way to Moscow and a couple of axes have woodsman promotiions. The cats are a beat behind the invaders as it is going to be attrition at the gates of Moscow to thin out the defenders a little, though Cathy is not known for throwing her capitol garrisons at besiegers.



    Got the hills mined at Heliopolis and the grass irrigated at Memphis waiting for Cathy's galley to wreck the fishing nets, again.

    Yakutsk grew to 2 but is now defended by an axe and an archer. GOing to take a couple of CR axes and a sword to take it down.

    Our workers are pretty much in a holding pattern right now as happiness and health are retarding growth. A settler out of Helio to settle red dot would definitely boost the economy and let Thebes get into high production mode.

    Very little in the way of trading to be done. Giving up rice to Gandhi will only exacerbate the health issues in the capitol. And all those cattle can't find a market. No technology curently on offer.

    The GAme is Afoot!
     
  20. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Nice work Bede. :goodjob: Looks like Cathy was expecting us?

    Roster:
    Redbad - UP
    Leif - On Deck
    Capt.
    Bradleyfeanor
    - Waiting for his return
    Romeo
    Gator
    Bede
    - Just played! :cool:

    Nice setup, let's get Moscow!! :hammer: :thumbsup: :rockon:
     

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