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SGOTM 01 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, May 8, 2006.

  1. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Thanks for the link, I'll look at it later when I have some time.

    The reason I am advocating the possibility is that we can not declare on them anyway as the game is set up so that we're peacefully linked. So we may as well use that to our advantage if we can. :D

    EDIT - Here is what the Civlopedia says about Permanent Alliances:
    Your two civilizations essentially become one nation with two leaders. You each continue to have control over your units and cities, but you share everything else: resources, technologies, maps and victory or defeat. If one declares war, the other auromatically does so as well. If one signs a treaty, the others are bound by it.

    Permanent Alliances are enabled by researching either Communism or Fascism.
     
  2. Capt Buttkick

    Capt Buttkick Emperor

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    So far...

    Turn 200 – 500 AD Forgot to look at MM after opening the save and checking the thread. Mental note to self: MM next turn.

    Turn 201 – 515 AD Move to beach to found Elephantine like Bede and leif suggested, starts library.
    The mental note worked: :p
    Set Thebes to slow starve, shave a turn off HGs. MM Memphis to Copper hill, take a turn off Court, but loose one gpt (finishing the Court one turn earlier nets 3 gold so only 1 gold lost overall). MM Moscow to work gems. MM Novgorod for faster Court. Misclicked a worker and sent it up north, decided we’ll need workers for cottaging up north anyway.
    We’re still at 0% research (I want to get some courts in before turning rate back up), now making +17 gpt.

    IBT: Cyrus offers Lit and 60 gold for HBR. I’ll check on my own turn, thanks :)
    St. Peter Granary --> Court
    Moscow Court --> Granary
    Helio Conf Mission --> Court

    Turn 202 – 530 AD Make the HBR deal with Cyrus. Move the Missionary towards Rostov, if invasion isn’t very close, we need to put some culture in Rostov.

    Turn 203 – 545 AD Realize I made a mistake in MMing Thebes, so MM back to gold and growth (incoming chop).

    IBT: Moscow Granary --> Cat
    Euclid (Sci) is born in Persia.
     
  3. Capt Buttkick

    Capt Buttkick Emperor

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    Picking up...

    Turn 204 – 560 AD Clearing a forest has created 123 shields for Thebes :eek: I should have emphazised growth from the start of turn set.

    IBT: Thebes HG --> Granary.

    Turn 205 – 575 AD Rostov starts Lighthouse. We can manage 30% research at -4 gpt, but 4 Courts are built during the next two turns, check back then. We can always use the gcs for upgrades.

    IBT: Heliopolis Court --> Conf Mission
    Memphis Court --> Light
    Moscow Cat (I just finished a build that start before my turnset) --> Market

    Turn 206 – 590 AD Spread Conf in Rostov.

    IBT: St. Peter Court --> Market
    Novgo Court --> Granary

    Turn 207 – 605 AD We are now at +47 gpt, set sci to 40% for paper, due in 14 at -6 gpt (with 485 gcs in the coffers).

    IBT: Turn down Cyrus’ offer of Fish for Gems, don’t want to tie up the next player (we should have it soon anyway and don’t have immediate use for it).

    Turn 208 – 620 AD Switch to Market in Thebes, run higher defecit for some turns, Paper due in 10.

    IBT: Helio Conf M --> Conf M
    Hypathia and Ptolemy are born in faraway land(s).

    Turn 209 – 635 AD :sleep:

    IBT: Yakutsk Granary --> Lib (another build that was started before my turns, I’d rather finish it than build Market first from scratch)
    Yaroslavl Granary --> Court

    Turn 210 – 650 AD :sleep:

    I propose a work boat out of Novgorod after Granary finishes. Other proposed builds have been cued also.
     
  4. Redbad

    Redbad should have shaved

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    Hey there
    At the moment the weather overhere is supreme and we have the worldcup football going on. So I'm afraid I won't be of much use in the next preriod. I'll popp in now and then, to see if can say something useful and when it's my turn to state if I can play or want a skip.
     
  5. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    Let us get some boats in the water, land the troops in Rostov over in Persia and put Cyrus on a flying carpet to wherever.

    We have a friend in Gandhi and if we can get him into the Persian War then we will get a leg up on the Permanent Alliance when the time comes.
     
  6. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Yes, I think it is close to time for Cyrus. I checked Gandhi's opinion of Cyrus and he is pleased. The difference appears to be that they share a common religion. With Open Borders, I think we need to produce and send a small army of Confucian Missionaries to visit Gandhi before he changes to Theocracy and we can't spread Confucianism over there?

    If we can get a common religion with Gandhi, I think we'll have it made. He has 10 cities and one of them, Bangalore, is Confucian. I fear more red than green with Gandhi if we attack Cyrus while they have the same religion... :crazyeye:

    Or we could convert to Judaism since Novgorod is the holy city. :mischief:

    EDIT - Almost forgot, Good work Capt!! :thumbsup:
    Sorry :blush:
    :D
     
  7. DJMGator13

    DJMGator13 Wondering why Builders can't build Roads

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    Have fun Redbad.

    This is a tenative "got it". If Romeo has time to play first let me know. I'll post a "now playing" before I start tomorrow. (I'll have no time on Tuesday and Wednesday to play.)

    I don't have all this religion and green vrs red attitudes down yet, so any advice and comments are helpful. I'm use to just using brute force.
     
  8. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    You know I'm as new to this as you. :blush: buut let's give it a try and if I'm wrong, I hope one of our teamates will set us straight! :D

    OK, If you look at the screenie below, it is of the score shown above the minimap. There are 3 symbols next to Cyrus and Gandhi's scores.

    The first says that we are trading with them, the second means we have an agreement with them, in this case Open Borders, and the last is their religious affiliation, both are in Judaism. We are in Confucianism.

    The next screenie is Gandhi's attitude to us. The stuff written in green is our positives for Gandhi and in red, the negatives.

    Please note that our only negative is a difference in religious beliefs. If you go to Gandhi's trade screen and mouse over convert, you will see that he says there are not enough people of that faith to support his changing, or something like that.

    The last screenie is Gandhi's attitude towards Cyrus.

    Gandhi is pleased with Cyrus, especially since he is of the same religious affiliation.

    We control all the cities that started Judaism, Hinduism and Confucism, iirc. So, in order to get into Gandhi's good graces, by removing his objection ot our religion, we could convert him by introducing Confucianism to his cities by Missionaries or we could convert to Judaism and change our cities to that faith. Either way requires us to create a bunch of missionary units.

    However, I think the best chance for a Permanent Alliance will come if we can have as much in common as possible.

    The thing I'm concerned about is if we declare on Cyrus, we may get a red negative line under Gandhi that says we attacked his friend, another diplomatic thing to overcome?

    Does that make sense? :crazyeye:
     
  9. Capt Buttkick

    Capt Buttkick Emperor

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    We can convert to Judaism any time cause when I checked during my turn set, no cities needed Conf for the happiness boost. All we'll loose is 4-5 turns of +25% building construction in our Conf cities (assuming we'll switch back as soon as we can).

    Another thought: maybe we could get Cyrus to switch to Hinduism more easily than we can get Gandhi to switch religions? In the short run, Cyrus switching would accomplish our goal of weakening relationships between him and Gandhi...
     
  10. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I think the choice is to convert to Judaism and use our Missionaries to convert our cities or use Missionaries to convert Gandhi to Confucianism and get him to convert. Whichever we do, I think it'll need to be more or less permanent. Whatever we do, we need to end up the same religion as Gandhi.
    Yes, this is possible as well. Again, as long as we end up the same religion as Gandhi. :D

    That is why I am leaning more to trying to convert Gandhi to Confucianism. It accomplishes all of our goals with the least turmoil to our empire. But I am open to other ideas and suggestions. :crazyeye:

    How is the World Cup going over there Capt and Redbad? I understand from my relatives that the House of Orange is doing well, so far. ;)
     
  11. Capt Buttkick

    Capt Buttkick Emperor

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    I'm an England fan, myself. So far so mediocre, I guess :lol:
    But there's been quite a few good matches. My fav teams don't have to play for me to enjoy the game ;)

    We're spiritual, aren't we? So we can play around a bit with religions. My thoughts were these: if we convert to Judaism and get Gandhi to war with Cyrus, we won't get a relationship penalty for attacking Gandhi's friend. This way, we won't have to wait until we have shipped missionaries to India before declaring on Cyrus. 4 turns later, back to Conf, which I agree should be our chosen religion, as well as Gandhi's in the long run [pimp]

    I spent my turn set building economy. If I knew you were in such a hurry, I'd happily invade during my turns ;)
     
  12. romeothemonk

    romeothemonk Order of the Engineer

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    Gator, go ahead and play for me here, it looks like I might have to go on indefinite skip for a while.
     
  13. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I'm sure there is much more good stuff to come!! :cool:
    I think to do this it would be best to try Hinduism, try to get Cyrus to change, then to Judaism, try to align Gandi against Cyrus, then back to Confucianism and Missionaries to India as time allows?

    Man, this is getting complicated???? :mischief:

    EDIT - Good luck Gator!! :thumbsup:
     
  14. DJMGator13

    DJMGator13 Wondering why Builders can't build Roads

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    preturn 650AD – review game
    switch Helio to library
    switch St. Pete to a galley
    with only 1 galley it will be awhile before we can start after Cyrus

    switch Moscow, Yak & Norv to Jewish Missionaries to prepare for Conversion

    Of our 5 top shield cities only Moscow is Jewish

    I’ll wait about 6 turns to convert for 2 reasons. First, that will let the 3 missionaries complete. Second, our 4 Conf. cities will be nearly all done with their current building, which are getting the 25% shield bonus.

    I’m trying to see if we can land troops in India and use their border to enter Cyrus’ lands. This could allow us to attack Cyrus quicker than building a fleet of galleys.

    665AD – galley moves south & worker actions

    680AD – Memphis library => galley

    695AD – galley moves & worker actions

    710AD – Thebes market => granary

    725AD – Thebes granary => Horse Archer
    Moscow Jewish Miss.(JM) => market

    740AD – St Pete galley =>
    Yak JM =>
    Norv JM =>

    755AD Memphis galley => horse archer
    St Pete now Jewish
    Conf miss. & chariot dropped off in India to explore
    No chance to get Cyrus to convert


    770AD Gandhi demands Civil service – I give it (they only had 20 gold available and won’t trade techs)


    Paper is delivered, set to Theology (as trade bait for India)
    Thebes horse archer => horse archer
    Rostov lighthouse => library
    spread Conf. to Bombay


    Thebes now Jewish

    Before conversion


    Convert to Judaism
    Naturally, Gandhi will trade techs now but we have nothing to trade
    Gandhi up Drama, Feudalism, Music, Compass & Metal C. (that’s why I choose Theology – quickest tech we could learn that Gandhi does not have)

    785AD – forgot to change Helio’s build, it completes a Conf. miss. => market
    Helio is now Jewish (so 4 of our top 5 shield cities are all Jewish)
    Cyrus’ galley in Rostov
    there’s a bad guy caravel on our east coast (no announcement about the enemy) – maybe trying to circle the world


    800AD – Thebes horse archer => horse archer
    Moscow market => library
    Norv granary =>
    got the enemy popup this turn

    I left the 2 galley’s in Rostov unmoved incase we want to start sending troops across, but there is a 3rd galley a few turns away plus a horse archer, then we can move 6 troops at a time



    The 800AD save

    Edit: I forgot to note a couple of builds in progress, so please review. Also the JM under construction is for Memphis to get the 25% bonus.
     
  15. DJMGator13

    DJMGator13 Wondering why Builders can't build Roads

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    Bede - Up
    Redbad - watch the World Cup and on deck
    Leif -
    Capt -
    Romeo - skip (as requested, can insert at top when ready just let us know when you have time)
    Gator - just played
    Bradleyfeanor - awaiting his return
     
  16. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Nice work Gator!! :thumbsup: :rockon: :D

    Looks like we're about ready to go after Cyrus. Alhtough, we are going to get the negative "You attack our friend" message in diplo. I chekced Gandhi and, under declare war on Vyrus, the mouseover says "We couldn't betray a close friend".

    I think there is at least one more Civ around somewhere. When I go to the Info Screen and click on Top 5 Cities/Wonders, I see that some of the Wonders, The Great Lighthouse and The Oracle, have been built by unknown civs.

    If we think we can take Cyrus down with our current army, then, perhaps, we should research towards Astronomy and try to get some eyes to the west and see what is there? At least, we should try for Optics to get a Caravel going west? Then to Gunpowder and Chemistry for Grenadiers and Frigates?

    Good luck Bede!! :hammer:
     
  17. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    I see it and will try to fit it into tomorrow's feast day, otherwise Wednesday for certain. If a swap with Redbad will help keep things moving I'm amenable to that as well.

    A little commentary: I think we are trying to do too much. The religion swap was a huge benefit, but delaying it because of the Organized Religion benefit cost us some bargaining leverage.

    The Russian towns need Courts and Forges (just discovered we can't build those) and Barracks and maybe a Temple so they can properly honor their dead and it appears the majority of them are Hindu anyway so there was little to be gained there from the OR 25%. We should be training troops and missionaries everywhere.

    Getting Cyrus under our heel is a priority so every build needs review against that standard.

    The sight of a Incan caravel was not a pleasing one. That tells me there is a whole 'nother continent out there teching its little heart out.

    Time to start a war with Cyrus. To the boats!!!
     
  18. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Sorry, I'm a bit dense. Could you please explain this in a little more depth? :confused:
    The Victory Conditions Screen says that there are 5 rival Civs remaining. Since we eliminated one, and we know Gandhi, Cyrus and Huayna Capac, that tells me there are still 2 others. We know the Aztecs prolly know them as their Caravel paid us a visit. It seems that taking Cyrus and Allying with Gandhi now seems more significant, as well as getting to Astronomy.

    Is it time to have a tech tree discussion?
    Good luck General Bede!! :hammer:
     
  19. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    @leif, the religion swap made Handhi friendly and opened trading options. It would have been to our advantage to have those options open six turns earlier.

    On another note I was a little disheartened to see that we had not acquired Metal Casting yet, though having Paper will allow me to acquire a full set of maps of the other island. Intel is always valuable.
     
  20. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Ok, now I've got it. I misunderstood what you wrote. Thank you.

    Good luck with Cyrus!! :hammer:
     

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