SGOTM 04 - Geezers

@mark - Hanny/Washy and Mehmed/Izzy are at war already. The question was whether we wanted to join in if one side asks us. If so, then on which side? Alternatively should we sit on the sidelines and rebuild our economy first?


From what you said in your previous post it looks like you're suggesting we should join Hanny/Washy if asked. Did I understand you correctly?
 
I think our economy should be rebuilt first...as long as we beeline techs, we can always bribe them into war again if we need to have that happen.
 
I know they are at war, but I did not get your question what to do if ...:hammer2: I thought it was a more general question for the rest of the game.

I have not yet checked the save, so I do not know whether we could afford to join one side militarily. If we are agreed to continue warring I think the better side to join for us will be the Hanny-Washy side, but this will mean we have to take out the only trading partner of Gandhi (izzy). IIRC Gnadhi's relations to Hanny-Washy are not that good. The other bad point would be that if we join Mehmed-Izzy, Mehmed might get much stronger than he already is. One good point is that we do not have to win the game, so maybe we can afford to have a splitted empire if we take Hanny's or Washy's cities. I am quite torn about it. Both scenarios have their good and bad points.
 
Washington is willing to trade with Gandhi...but he's not as happy about it as Izzy is. Both Mehmed and Hannibal would be willing to trade with Gandhi if we could get rid of that darned negative modifier for religion!
 
I will not be playing before tomorrow so there's plenty of time for team comments.

@mark - This was the bit that confused me originally:

Thrallia said:
maybe encourage Hanny to declare war first, so they burn their units on that front before we step in

I didn't realise you were talking generally......
 
Yeah, it was me. How did he do that ? :crazyeye:

I should have stated that I meant a later war as I do not think we could afford one right now.
 
I've had a look at the save. First off I've realised that my previous comment about Ghandhi's gold was wrong. It's actually our gold that dropped like a stone. Figures I suppose. Ghandhi's gold still isn't that brilliant but at least we don't have to hold off Ghandhi that much. I'm tempted to whip the part built galleon in Uppsala.

Not quite sure what to do about our southern lands. We don't have that much strength there anyway. Perhaps it'll be more a case of preventing Ghandhi from pillaging.

In the new lands I propose settling our GG in Vienne as it has the potential to be quite productive.
 
Real Ms Beyond and CRC haven't posted in 9 days...did they somehow finish in the 1600s?! :o

I agree that in the south the main problem will be keeping Gandhi from pillaging everything...perhaps we should built some workers and sacrifice them over and over again to lead him directly to our cities and avoid pillaging?
 
Real Ms Beyond and CRC haven't posted in 9 days...did they somehow finish in the 1600s?! :o

I agree that in the south the main problem will be keeping Gandhi from pillaging everything...perhaps we should built some workers and sacrifice them over and over again to lead him directly to our cities and avoid pillaging?

The trouble is some teams just go quiet for a while due to RL. One of the russian teams in the last SGOTM didn't post for 3 weeks or so and then went on to win convincingly. :dunno: CDZ are still at 50 AD despite fairly regular posting. :eek: Makes you wonder if they or Ghandhi were killed off....

Workers is an interesting idea although perhaps we should have thought of it sooner. Perhaps I'll try sending out a weak military instead when they come pillaging to draw them in since it looks like Ghandhi can manage a few more cities. I think our last two northern cities should be enough for the time being. I wonder where the palace will move to this time?
 
It appears that the capital doesn't necessarily move to the biggest city, because our new capital is Uppsala, despite Bibracte being our largest city.

This really surprises me. I've always been able to predict where a capital would move when I've taken AI capitals and I thought it was always the largest. I guess maybe though culture would make sense as larger cities would generally have the most culture as well.
 
Summary (1730AD - 1750 AD)

Fairly quiet turnset. Ghandhi now has Sanchu & Uppsala, partly to stop him pillaging the improvements. I think that's probably enough cities for him at present. Ghandhi's science is still in intensive care. :( The capital is now in Bibracte. We've lost a few units but nothing major. A number of deals with other AIs have been cancelled. Probably because of the improvements we've lost to Ghandhi. Hanny's city Tacape revolted to us but I decided to disband it. GG settled in Vienne as instructor. Mehmed asked us to cancel deals with Hanny. I refused as I don't particularly want to upset Hanny at present and we've got better relations with Mehmed than Hanny anyway. Mehmed has lost Diyarbakir to Hanny. Mehmed has infantry and Hanny has artillery.

Turnlog

Spoiler :

Turn 380, 1730 AD: The borders of Durnovaria have expanded!
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Hamilcar Barca (Great General) has been born in Sicca (Hannibal)!
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Michiel de Ruyter (Great General) has been born in Istanbul (Mehmed II)!
Turn 380, 1730 AD: Gaziantep (Mehmed II) has been captured by the Carthaginian Empire!!!

Turn 381, 1732 AD: The borders of Verlamion have expanded!
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's Frigate (9.60) vs Geezers's Galleon (4.80)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Geezers's Galleon is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Geezers's Galleon is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Geezers's Galleon is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Geezers's Galleon is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 381, 1732 AD: Gandhi's Frigate has defeated Geezers's Galleon!

Turn 382, 1734 AD: The borders of Camulodunum have expanded!

Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gandhi's Frigate (9.60) vs Geezers's Galleon (4.40)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Geezers's Galleon is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Geezers's Galleon is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 13 (48/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 13 (35/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Geezers's Galleon is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gandhi's Frigate is hit for 13 (22/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Geezers's Galleon is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 383, 1736 AD: Gandhi's Frigate has defeated Geezers's Galleon!

Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier (13.20) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (11.42)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Combat Odds: 71.0%
Turn 384, 1738 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier has defeated Geezers's Grenadier!
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier (14.40) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (5.32)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 384, 1738 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 24 (13/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 384, 1738 AD: Geezers's Grenadier has defeated Gandhi's Grenadier!
Turn 384, 1738 AD: The borders of Durocortorum have expanded!

Turn 385, 1740 AD: The borders of Birka have expanded!
Turn 385, 1740 AD: The borders of Bagacum have expanded!
Turn 385, 1740 AD: Tacape has revolted and joined the Viking Empire!

Turn 386, 1742 AD: Durocortorum has grown to size 6
Turn 386, 1742 AD: Bernard Montgomery has died in combat!
Turn 386, 1742 AD: Diyarbakir (Mehmed II) has been captured by the Carthaginian Empire!!!
Turn 386, 1742 AD: Erwin Rommel (Great General) has been born in Istanbul (Mehmed II)!

Turn 387, 1744 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Hannibal has 170 gold available for trade
Turn 387, 1744 AD: The borders of Vienne have expanded!
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Bibracte will grow to size 12 on the next turn
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Gandhi's Cannon (14.40) vs Geezers's Spearman (5.40)
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 387, 1744 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 387, 1744 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 387, 1744 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Gandhi's Cannon has defeated Geezers's Spearman!
Turn 387, 1744 AD: A Plantation has been destroyed by a marauding Indian Grenadier!
Turn 387, 1744 AD: Deal Canceled: Wine to Mehmed II for Clam

Turn 388, 1746 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Washington has 5 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Birka will grow to size 2 on the next turn
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Bagacum has grown to size 5
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Sanchu will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Isca has grown to size 6
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Bibracte has grown to size 12
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Sanchu (Geezers) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 388, 1746 AD: Gandhi has reduced your defenses in Tiflis to 0%!

Turn 389, 1748 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Geezers's Spearman (4.80) vs Gandhi's Grenadier (14.40)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 389, 1748 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Geezers's Spearman is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Gandhi's Grenadier has defeated Geezers's Spearman!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Your Spearman has died trying to attack a Grenadier!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Birka has grown to size 2
Turn 389, 1748 AD: New Karakorum will grow to size 11 on the next turn
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Uppsala (Geezers) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Deal Canceled: Gems to Mehmed II for Wheat
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Deal Canceled: Sugar to Mehmed II for Fish
Turn 389, 1748 AD: Deal Canceled: Sugar to Hannibal for Gold Per Turn (5)

Turn 390, 1750 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!
Turn 390, 1750 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Tiflis!


Autolog
Spoiler :

Turn 380 (1730 AD)
Napa Valley grows: 9
Durnovaria's borders expand
Durocortorum grows: 5
Camulodunum grows: 6

Turn 381 (1732 AD)
Uppsala grows: 8
Uppsala finishes: Galleon
Verlamion's borders expand
Old Sarai finishes: Bank
Gergovia grows: 6
Isca grows: 5
Bibracte grows: 10
Galleon loses to: Indian Frigate (6.88/8)

Turn 382 (1734 AD)
Old Sarai begins: Library
Ning-hsia grows: 7
New Karakorum grows: 9
Sanchu grows: 5
Sanchu finishes: Observatory
Camulodunum's borders expand

Turn 383 (1736 AD)
Galleon promoted: Combat I
New Sarai finishes: Observatory
Vienne grows: 8
Durnovaria grows: 9
Gergovia finishes: University
Galleon loses to: Indian Frigate (1.76/8)

Turn 384 (1738 AD)
Gergovia begins: Granary
Grenadier loses to: Indian Grenadier (4.44/12)
Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Indian Grenadier
New Sarai grows: 7
Vienne finishes: Courthouse
Durocortorum's borders expand
Bibracte grows: 11

Turn 385 (1740 AD)
Vienne begins: Barracks
Birka's borders expand
Bagacum's borders expand
New Karakorum grows: 10
Taoism has spread: Tacape
Tacape (Hannibal) culture flips

Turn 386 (1742 AD)
Bagacum begins: Courthouse
Tacape lost
Vienne finishes: Barracks
Durocortorum grows: 6

Turn 387 (1744 AD)
Vienne begins: Heroic Epic
Vienne's borders expand
Bibracte finishes: Library
Spearman loses to: Indian Cannon (12.00/12)

Turn 388 (1746 AD)
Bibracte begins: Market
Bagacum grows: 5
Isca grows: 6
Isca finishes: Library
Bibracte grows: 12
Sanchu lost

Turn 389 (1748 AD)
Isca begins: Harbor
Spearman loses to: Indian Grenadier (9.12/12)
Birka grows: 2
Uppsala lost

Turn 390 (1750 AD)
Birka begins: Courthouse


Save
 
Got it.
Wow our tech fall back reflect a much higher difficulty game, but we can come back with the Financial trait. Next turn set I plan to hold the line where it stand. Trade Demo to the only buyer and gift to Izzy. Should we not be in free market or Mercantilism? I think after the courthouses are done in the two border towns, we should go culture for a while, at least to get the 9 tiles.

I will play in 20 hrs. Please feel free to advise.
 
Trade Demo to the only buyer and gift to Izzy.

I think Izzy's already got Demo. From what I can see it looks like we can only get Corporation from Hanny. After that it's a choice between Communism, Physics or Steam Power for our next research if I've read the tech chart correctly.

Should we not be in free market or Mercantilism?

:blush: Totally forgot to look at our civics. I know there was talk of Mercantilism earlier although Free Market seems a better choice to me.
 
I agree that free market is probably a better choice for us now, especially since the only specs worth the hit we'd take from research are scientists and not all of our cities can run those yet.

I also think we should consider emancipation as well...it'd double the speed at which our cottages mature, getting our new lands up to speed twice as fast...at their current growth rate, we won't get any towns over there before the game is over. 15+30+60=105 turns to towns. 7+15+30=52 turns, which is still a doable amount of time...it also means that by that time we'd have a competitive ecomony again.

As for the next research...I'd vote Physics, as it was less widely known last time I checked, and we can trade for Communism when it gets to the point where we can afford to build Scotland Yard.
 
I am on turn 4 and just came out of anarchy and realized that all but Gandhi has both Physics and Communism. None has medicine. Should we not tech on that path? I will wait for comments before proceeding. We have nearly 600 beakers in Communism and I started Physics for 1 turn at 30% science. Got Hanny turned to Free Religion.
 
I am on turn 4 and just came out of anarchy and realized that all but Gandhi has both Physics and Communism. None has medicine. Should we not tech on that path? I will wait for comments before proceeding. We have nearly 600 beakers in Communism and I started Physics for 1 turn at 30% science. Got Hanny turned to Free Religion.

There must have been some active AI trading taking place since the 1750 AD save. :hmm:

According to my 1750 AD save Medicine will take 31 turns @ 30% science which seems an awful lot for a trading tech. I think we have to get the balance right between techs that are good for trading and techs that are useful to us. In this case the only value of Medicine is for trading whereas Communism is useful to us, after we build the spy enabling wonder, although no use for trading. Personally I would continue with Communism.
 
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