Frederiksberg
Deity
As far as I remember it's counting the one in which we are anchored and I don't think diagonals make any difference. I think the rule is that all tiles adjacent to our Frigates can't be worked by our enemy - in this case Gandhi.
SGOTM 04 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
As far as I remember it's counting the one in which we are anchored and I don't think diagonals make any difference. I think the rule is that all tiles adjacent to our Frigates can't be worked by our enemy - in this case Gandhi.
Yes, I believe this is the case. That also means that when we approach one of Gandhi's cities to recon, we must try to stay at least one tile from the fisheries. In games I have played where the enemy keeps sailing past my cities, the city governor will reassign the citizen away from the fishery tile and I have to go back and change it. I'm sure this will be the case with the AI so sailing past a fishery will cause the citizen to get reassigned for at least that turn.
I think Carthage is the civ furthest along in tech? If so, we might consider driving him to Gandhi with a phoney war.
I would still like to consider what we need to take on the Celt continent to establish ourselves so we can give away our current homeland. That, I think, would vault Gandhi forward?
I'm starting to sound like the Alphabet discussion...
WillowBrook
Lurker
Frustating - I mean, fond - memories of a previous such attempt come to mind. Would the Civ IV Gandhi make better use of captured cities? 
Hi Willow,
Nice to see you again. Hope all is well swimming with the corporate sharks!
As I recall, the biggest reason for Gandhi's poor use of those beautiful cities we gave him in Civ3 was a lack of happy pills and the war weariness that had built up through all those years.
In this one, he has more than a one tile island, so I hope he can make beter use of them. And our territory has adequately supported us thus far, can't see any reason it wouldn't help him? Of course, I didn't see any reason in the Civ3 version until we gave him the cities and they shrank away to nothingness...
Must almost be time for a new computer and some Civ4?
Here is my turn log for the day (had an unexpected errand and wasn't able to play as much as anticipated):
323: Trade Steel plus 1450 gold to Washington for Liberalism
324: Brennus advances troops (no cavalry) out of the fog towards Vienne
The RNG is unkind: we lose a cavalry (at 90%) before dispatching a grenadier (and must delay aggression to protect city from his other units)
Sink three of Gandhis caravels in his home waters
Brennus will now talk to us, but he offers nothing but money for peace
Trade Liberalism and 650 gold to Hannibal for Economics
Note, with some surprise, that no one has Communism
Move culture to 10%, science reduced to gain gold for upgrading, so Steam will be delayed a turn
325 (1565AD): Brennus adopts Emancipation and Universal suffrage, plus he advances two more Grenadiers towards Vienne, tying us down further
Culture slider moved to 20%
Note that Gandhi does not have Economics
326: Exchange a grenadier for a rifleman, and Brennus inexplicably turns away from Vienne should allow us to take the two cities impinging on Bibracte and possibly to call a cease fire just before it shucks off anarchy.
Foreign Advisor shows no changes, so I delay Steam one more turn to gain gold for upgrading beserkers before they embark
Frigate exposes 5 riflemen defending Verlamion
Citizens are already demanding emancipation
327: Sink two more of Gandhis caravels in his home waters, but beginning to question this tactic as he seems to be building nothing else
Take Durnovaria with loss of two cannons and a grenadier
Take Isca from the sea without losses (but no trading post)
Getting near a Great General and would like to have before peace, but Brennus is still not offering tech for peace
328: Steam power achieved, RR being researched
Mehmed has Communism but still says we are too advanced
Capture Gergovia without losses
Realize that Tolusa has the Hermitage in it and thus has a huge cultural boundary, which almost requires that we take the city soon.
Sign cease fire and get science back up to 70%
Move frigates away from Indian fish nets
329: Gandhi deposits 2 longbows and a settler just west of Tartar. Guess the blockade shouldnt have been lifted
Take advantage to offer up two workers but delay trading Chemistry until I destroy future city
Trade Brennus resources for brief use of 5gpt and incense
330: The borders of Uppsala expand and it looks like we may get a few tiles back
Gandhi now has Chemistry and frigates, leaves workers alone
I anticipate going back to war next turn and taking at least three more cities before possibly accepting peace for tech (if offered). those cities would be Tolosa (can't hold Durnovaria unless I capture or raze it), Durocortorum, and Bagacum. It may make sense to try to finish Btennus off ASAP, since i don't see how to proceed without making him a vassal cnadidate.
Would appreciate some discussion before i continue play tomorrow mid-morning.
Here is the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
323: Trade Steel plus 1450 gold to Washington for Liberalism
324: Brennus advances troops (no cavalry) out of the fog towards Vienne
The RNG is unkind: we lose a cavalry (at 90%) before dispatching a grenadier (and must delay aggression to protect city from his other units)
Sink three of Gandhis caravels in his home waters
Brennus will now talk to us, but he offers nothing but money for peace
Trade Liberalism and 650 gold to Hannibal for Economics
Note, with some surprise, that no one has Communism
Move culture to 10%, science reduced to gain gold for upgrading, so Steam will be delayed a turn
325 (1565AD): Brennus adopts Emancipation and Universal suffrage, plus he advances two more Grenadiers towards Vienne, tying us down further
Culture slider moved to 20%
Note that Gandhi does not have Economics
326: Exchange a grenadier for a rifleman, and Brennus inexplicably turns away from Vienne should allow us to take the two cities impinging on Bibracte and possibly to call a cease fire just before it shucks off anarchy.
Foreign Advisor shows no changes, so I delay Steam one more turn to gain gold for upgrading beserkers before they embark
Frigate exposes 5 riflemen defending Verlamion
Citizens are already demanding emancipation
327: Sink two more of Gandhis caravels in his home waters, but beginning to question this tactic as he seems to be building nothing else
Take Durnovaria with loss of two cannons and a grenadier
Take Isca from the sea without losses (but no trading post)
Getting near a Great General and would like to have before peace, but Brennus is still not offering tech for peace
328: Steam power achieved, RR being researched
Mehmed has Communism but still says we are too advanced
Capture Gergovia without losses
Realize that Tolusa has the Hermitage in it and thus has a huge cultural boundary, which almost requires that we take the city soon.
Sign cease fire and get science back up to 70%
Move frigates away from Indian fish nets
329: Gandhi deposits 2 longbows and a settler just west of Tartar. Guess the blockade shouldnt have been lifted
Take advantage to offer up two workers but delay trading Chemistry until I destroy future city
Trade Brennus resources for brief use of 5gpt and incense
330: The borders of Uppsala expand and it looks like we may get a few tiles back
Gandhi now has Chemistry and frigates, leaves workers alone
I anticipate going back to war next turn and taking at least three more cities before possibly accepting peace for tech (if offered). those cities would be Tolosa (can't hold Durnovaria unless I capture or raze it), Durocortorum, and Bagacum. It may make sense to try to finish Btennus off ASAP, since i don't see how to proceed without making him a vassal cnadidate.
Would appreciate some discussion before i continue play tomorrow mid-morning.
Here is the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
Frederiksberg
Deity
A few quick comments before I've got to run...
I agree with your war plan - Tolosa has got to be captured.
Looked also at the tech screen. Washington will not trade any tech for Steam Power and that indicates to me that he has started researching it himself. Hannibal on the other hand is prepared to trade rifling and 760g to get it. I think we shouldn't wait long before we take this deal because Hannibal will probably be able to trade with his buddy Washington when he discovers Steam Power in the near future.
We could consider giving away Education and Economics to Izzy hoping that Economics will find it's way to Gandhi...
I'm not sure if we should capture the new Indian city. That will increase WW and I'm a bit afraid of that particularly if we are contemplating giving up some cities for Gandhi to capture. Here's a link with more details on WW: WW
Remember to keep an eye on the starvation in Upsala (I suppose it's there on purpose to speed up the ironclad).
I agree with your war plan - Tolosa has got to be captured.
Looked also at the tech screen. Washington will not trade any tech for Steam Power and that indicates to me that he has started researching it himself. Hannibal on the other hand is prepared to trade rifling and 760g to get it. I think we shouldn't wait long before we take this deal because Hannibal will probably be able to trade with his buddy Washington when he discovers Steam Power in the near future.
We could consider giving away Education and Economics to Izzy hoping that Economics will find it's way to Gandhi...
I'm not sure if we should capture the new Indian city. That will increase WW and I'm a bit afraid of that particularly if we are contemplating giving up some cities for Gandhi to capture. Here's a link with more details on WW: WW
Remember to keep an eye on the starvation in Upsala (I suppose it's there on purpose to speed up the ironclad).
Tolosa must be taken, no question. That raises the issue of Verlamion and whether we can hold Tolosa without taking it as they are only a couple of tiles apart.
In taking and razing Bagacum, I think we should build a new city on the desert hill 1 tile west. If we don't build it, the call of Gold and Oil is just too great and someone else will fill in the void. If it is Carthage, Old Sarai is essentially cut off by land from the rest of the empire.
If we take all of Brennus' cities save Camulodunum and Salamanca, I think we could sue for peace if tech is offered. If no tech is offered, we may as well send him to the electron heaven. The only one that he has good relations with is Izzie and it would be interesting if he becomes her Vassal?
I would also make the trade with Hannibal, although I think Constitution may be the better trade at this time as we will need to get to Democracy and Emancipation. Rifling is available from other civs, once they decide to trade again, or a 5-turn research. I also think it is a good idea to give Education and Economics to Izzie and see if it loosens her trading with us? And if we think Washington is close to discovering Steam Power, why not trade it to him for his Gold on the same turn we trade to Hannibal? 760 Gold from Hannibal and 450 from Washington will help us speed along to Combustion and then to Democracy?
Snagging Communism would be a great catch as it allows us to build Scotland Yard and spies. Then we could monitor Gandhi without interfering with his food and production as well as more closely calculate what he is capable of and what we may need to provide him.
Here is the question I don't get from the WW article. Once the war is over with Brennus, if we remain relatively docile with Gandhi, does the war weariness go down? If it doesn't, we may have to change to Police State until we can get Jails, which come with Constitution.
If we are planning to give away any of our original core cities to Gandhi, then we should allow Bengal to remain. If we aren't sure of that strategy, then Bengal should probably be taken. If we take it, the best way to blockade that move would be to station a naval unit northwest of the mountain tile west of Tartar to intercept any Indian vessels before they can reach our territory.
Keep up the good work CP!
EDIT - Almost forgot to tell you that I heard from Gator last night and he is doing much better. He is trying to catch up in RL and hopes to come visit with us soon.
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
After I quit the game last night, I started kicking myself (before the team had a chance) because I had not traded Education and then Economics to Izzie many turns ago. It will be done immediately.
I'm learning more and more from these discussions, which I had hoped would be the case when I joined the team.
Remember to keep an eye on the starvation in Upsala
That, at least, Im on top of.
I'm not sure if we should capture the new Indian city. That will increase WW and I'm a bit afraid of that particularly if we are contemplating giving up some cities for Gandhi to capture.
As I understand it, capturing the new city will increase our WW, not Gandhis. Though our WW is certainly going to accumulate, by the time we are in a position to let Gandhi take cities weve captured (I dont think we can maintain tech superiority if we lose those on our home continent), we should be able to deal with it. Prefer that to dealing with a city in our midst, because Im not confident that I can foresee just what problems that might cause.
In taking and razing Bagacum, I think we should build a new city on the desert hill 1 tile west. If we don't build it, the call of Gold and Oil is just too great and someone else will fill in the void. If it is Carthage, Old Sarai is essentially cut off by land from the rest of the empire.
Hadnt thought about that, but it makes sense to me.
If we take all of Brennus' cities save Camulodunum and Salamanca, I think we could sue for peace if tech is offered. If no tech is offered, we may as well send him to the electron heaven. The only one that he has good relations with is Izzie and it would be interesting if he becomes her Vassal?
Im going to proceed with those thoughts in mind and see what happens. Could certainly live with him going to Izzie. (She wont give us the time of day, anyway.)
I would also make the trade with Hannibal, although I think Constitution may be the better trade at this time as we will need to get to Democracy and Emancipation. Rifling is available from other civs, once they decide to trade again, or a 5-turn research. . . . why not trade it to [Washington] for his Gold on the same turn we trade to Hannibal?
That would be this turn, and that is what I will do. Will also open the possibility of getting Democracy from Brennus for peace.
Snagging Communism would be a great catch as it allows us to build Scotland Yard and spies. Then we could monitor Gandhi without interfering with his food and production as well as more closely calculate what he is capable of and what we may need to provide him.
Again . . . makes sense. Will keep in mind.
Here is the question I don't get from the WW article. Once the war is over with Brennus, if we remain relatively docile with Gandhi, does the war weariness go down?:
My understanding is that WW goes down by about 1% each turn, so it recedes slowly.
Almost forgot to tell you that I heard from Gator last night and he is doing much better. He is trying to catch up in RL and hopes to come visit with us soon.
Good news. Game strategy is becoming increasingly anomalous with experience, and more minds will generate more hypothetical strategies with, hopefully, a few good ones falling out.
I'm playing now, but will check in regularly.
I'm learning more and more from these discussions, which I had hoped would be the case when I joined the team.
Remember to keep an eye on the starvation in Upsala
That, at least, Im on top of.
I'm not sure if we should capture the new Indian city. That will increase WW and I'm a bit afraid of that particularly if we are contemplating giving up some cities for Gandhi to capture.
As I understand it, capturing the new city will increase our WW, not Gandhis. Though our WW is certainly going to accumulate, by the time we are in a position to let Gandhi take cities weve captured (I dont think we can maintain tech superiority if we lose those on our home continent), we should be able to deal with it. Prefer that to dealing with a city in our midst, because Im not confident that I can foresee just what problems that might cause.
In taking and razing Bagacum, I think we should build a new city on the desert hill 1 tile west. If we don't build it, the call of Gold and Oil is just too great and someone else will fill in the void. If it is Carthage, Old Sarai is essentially cut off by land from the rest of the empire.
Hadnt thought about that, but it makes sense to me.
If we take all of Brennus' cities save Camulodunum and Salamanca, I think we could sue for peace if tech is offered. If no tech is offered, we may as well send him to the electron heaven. The only one that he has good relations with is Izzie and it would be interesting if he becomes her Vassal?
Im going to proceed with those thoughts in mind and see what happens. Could certainly live with him going to Izzie. (She wont give us the time of day, anyway.)
I would also make the trade with Hannibal, although I think Constitution may be the better trade at this time as we will need to get to Democracy and Emancipation. Rifling is available from other civs, once they decide to trade again, or a 5-turn research. . . . why not trade it to [Washington] for his Gold on the same turn we trade to Hannibal?
That would be this turn, and that is what I will do. Will also open the possibility of getting Democracy from Brennus for peace.
Snagging Communism would be a great catch as it allows us to build Scotland Yard and spies. Then we could monitor Gandhi without interfering with his food and production as well as more closely calculate what he is capable of and what we may need to provide him.
Again . . . makes sense. Will keep in mind.
Here is the question I don't get from the WW article. Once the war is over with Brennus, if we remain relatively docile with Gandhi, does the war weariness go down?:
My understanding is that WW goes down by about 1% each turn, so it recedes slowly.
Almost forgot to tell you that I heard from Gator last night and he is doing much better. He is trying to catch up in RL and hopes to come visit with us soon.
Good news. Game strategy is becoming increasingly anomalous with experience, and more minds will generate more hypothetical strategies with, hopefully, a few good ones falling out.
I'm playing now, but will check in regularly.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Leif Erikson said:
My idea was to trade for Rifling because it's more expensive than Constitution who is - as far as I remember - only 4 turns of research. I doubt that the civs unwilling to trade wil become willing any time soon.
I took Constitution, in part because I wanted to train a few more beserkers in NS.
Since you are following, here is updated turn log:
330: The borders of Uppsala expand and it looks like we may get a few tiles back
Gandhi now has Chemistry and frigates
Gift Education to Spain
Trade Steam to H for Constitution and 750g
Trade Steam to W for ~400g
331: Take and raze Bengal without losses
Trade Economics to Spain for 40 gold
B & W both have Democracy but not trading it
H, M, W, & B all have Corporation, only W & H will trade it
Declare war on Brennus and revolt (3 turns) to Free Religion, Police State, and Free Markets
Durocortorum falls from the sea without losses (no trading post)
A Great General appears in OS
Planning to use GG to promote four NS beserkers. Do you see a city that cries out for a military academy or instructor?
Since you are following, here is updated turn log:
330: The borders of Uppsala expand and it looks like we may get a few tiles back
Gandhi now has Chemistry and frigates
Gift Education to Spain
Trade Steam to H for Constitution and 750g
Trade Steam to W for ~400g
331: Take and raze Bengal without losses
Trade Economics to Spain for 40 gold
B & W both have Democracy but not trading it
H, M, W, & B all have Corporation, only W & H will trade it
Declare war on Brennus and revolt (3 turns) to Free Religion, Police State, and Free Markets
Durocortorum falls from the sea without losses (no trading post)
A Great General appears in OS
Planning to use GG to promote four NS beserkers. Do you see a city that cries out for a military academy or instructor?
I know this goes beyond your turn set CP, but I would ask what difference it makes whether we are superior in tech or not? From my perspective, the idea here is to get Gandhi to launch. The advantages to giving up our cities are:
1. They are productive and large. Giving them up would maintain their size and most of their productivity.
2. Moving to the other continent provides space for Gandhi and will, hopefully, have him producing space ship parts and researching quicker to the next tech. We want him to focus on the spaceship, not on our war.
3. I think the fastest road to spaceship is for Gandhi to self-research it. I'm trying to figure out ways to give him the assets to do so.
Disadvantages include:
1. Our loss of capability as we try to grow cities founded by the AI and get them working for us.
2. Being able to defeat any civ trying to take our new area with reduced production.
3. Loss of resources and lux's to maintain our pop.
I'm sure there are more advantages and disadvantages, but I can't think right now. Got to run.
The main reason giving cities to Gandhi in the Civ III version of the game was that he didn't have any lux's to fight the War Weariness and all the beautifully crafted cities we gave him shrunk to nothing from the unhappiness. There should be enough lux in this game to keep him going.
@Frederiksberg - When I checked this morning, the number of turns to research Rifling and Constitution were the same. That meant to me we could, hopefully, get to Democracy faster and kill that stinking penalty for not having Emancipation.
Disadvantages also include:
4. Not being able to stop someone who is getting ahead of Gandhi.
4. Not being able to stop someone who is getting ahead of Gandhi.
Brennus' days are numbered, unless he becomes someone's vassal, and I'm hoping nobody wants to fight with us.
Gandhi's armada, on the other hand, poses a serious dilemna. The settler he produced earlier out of nowhere leaves me uncertain as to what is in those three galleons. I am torn between attacking his frigates (at least one, two if we win the first battle) with the slight advantage we have. Might be able to force his galleons to sail around and not reach land next turn. Then we might be able to sink on e or two, figuring the best way to deal with his troops is before they land.
Here is my most recent turn log and the save, I am going to take a break and finish tonight. Any advice would be appreciated.
331: Take and raze Bengal without losses
Trade Economics to Spain for 40 gold
B & W both have Democracy but not trading it
H, M, W, & B all have Corporation, only W & H will trade it
Declare war on Brennus and revolt (3 turns) to Free Religion, Police State, and Free Markets
Durocortorum falls from the sea without losses (no trading post)
A Great General appears in OS
332: Mehmed and Izzie adopt Free Market
India still wants Economics
333 (1589AD): Gandhi now has Economics, but cant tell if he traded for it
Verlamion falls from amphibious attack (again, no losses and no trading post left)
Brennus will not talk to us (guess he didnt care for our breaking the cease fire)
334: Out of anarchy
Tolosa falls with the loss of a cannon
335: Hannibal has built the Kremlin (I think with a Great Engineer)
Gankhi has amassed 3 frigates and 3 galleons south of Delhi
Moving the culture slider to 30% gave us temporary possession of the forest SW of Upsalla and allowed a forest chop to greatly speed badly needed ironclad.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
Gandhi's armada, on the other hand, poses a serious dilemna. The settler he produced earlier out of nowhere leaves me uncertain as to what is in those three galleons. I am torn between attacking his frigates (at least one, two if we win the first battle) with the slight advantage we have. Might be able to force his galleons to sail around and not reach land next turn. Then we might be able to sink on e or two, figuring the best way to deal with his troops is before they land.
Here is my most recent turn log and the save, I am going to take a break and finish tonight. Any advice would be appreciated.
331: Take and raze Bengal without losses
Trade Economics to Spain for 40 gold
B & W both have Democracy but not trading it
H, M, W, & B all have Corporation, only W & H will trade it
Declare war on Brennus and revolt (3 turns) to Free Religion, Police State, and Free Markets
Durocortorum falls from the sea without losses (no trading post)
A Great General appears in OS
332: Mehmed and Izzie adopt Free Market
India still wants Economics
333 (1589AD): Gandhi now has Economics, but cant tell if he traded for it
Verlamion falls from amphibious attack (again, no losses and no trading post left)
Brennus will not talk to us (guess he didnt care for our breaking the cease fire)
334: Out of anarchy
Tolosa falls with the loss of a cannon
335: Hannibal has built the Kremlin (I think with a Great Engineer)
Gankhi has amassed 3 frigates and 3 galleons south of Delhi
Moving the culture slider to 30% gave us temporary possession of the forest SW of Upsalla and allowed a forest chop to greatly speed badly needed ironclad.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
Frederiksberg
Deity
Very nice war progress!
I have a couple of suggestions. Regarding the indian Frigates it might be an idea to distribute our frigates on the coast tiles in front of the indian naval stack so that the indian vessels are forced to end their turn on an ocean tile if they want to advance further west. Then we can attack without the indian frigates having the 10% coastal defense.
We could consider asking Washington to adopt Free Religion. He will do this in return for 710g. This will improve his relations to Gandhi. The same thing can be done with Izzy, only we have to give her Liberalism first.
Keep up the good work!
EDIT: Just noticed that there is uranium just outside Thaena. That will enable Hannibal to build destroyers and transports even without oil which he is lacking (When he discovers Combustion, of course).
I have a couple of suggestions. Regarding the indian Frigates it might be an idea to distribute our frigates on the coast tiles in front of the indian naval stack so that the indian vessels are forced to end their turn on an ocean tile if they want to advance further west. Then we can attack without the indian frigates having the 10% coastal defense.
We could consider asking Washington to adopt Free Religion. He will do this in return for 710g. This will improve his relations to Gandhi. The same thing can be done with Izzy, only we have to give her Liberalism first.
Keep up the good work!
EDIT: Just noticed that there is uranium just outside Thaena. That will enable Hannibal to build destroyers and transports even without oil which he is lacking (When he discovers Combustion, of course).
Gandhi's shoes must be pinching if he is still trying to put settlers into our side of the continent, and he does seem to be lagging in the technology sweepstakes.
But I remain confused about what to do about that.
If we abandon the home land to him he is going to have to deal with major unhappiness in his new cities from "want to rejoin the motherland" penalties as well as having to rebuild lots of cultural infrastucture, so instead of putting his resources into the space race he will put resources there, first quelling any unhappiness then rebuilding what was destroyed in the capture of the cities. And each city he takes will add war weariness to his population which we have no way of measuring until we can put spies into his core towns. As long as he suffers minimal losses and is not fighting any battles outside his cultural borders I think the WW burden will remain manageable. Giving him open season on our territory and letting him capture towns will add to that burden pretty heavily, I should think.
As I ponder the end game here, I am tending to the view that trimming the world to three nations: Vikings, Gandhi, and a friend of Gandhi who is relatively powerless may be the way to go.
We will need to control enough population to manage the UN issue till we get to that point, though, and that is a situation that will come up sooner than I think any of us are expecting right now. Carrying the fight on until Brennus is gone from the map is probably the best solution to the short term requirements, then aiming our armies to the next biggest dog until we have the population needed (60% to make the UN votes a non issue would be my approach, keeping our homelands as a production core to support that effort.
But I remain confused about what to do about that.
If we abandon the home land to him he is going to have to deal with major unhappiness in his new cities from "want to rejoin the motherland" penalties as well as having to rebuild lots of cultural infrastucture, so instead of putting his resources into the space race he will put resources there, first quelling any unhappiness then rebuilding what was destroyed in the capture of the cities. And each city he takes will add war weariness to his population which we have no way of measuring until we can put spies into his core towns. As long as he suffers minimal losses and is not fighting any battles outside his cultural borders I think the WW burden will remain manageable. Giving him open season on our territory and letting him capture towns will add to that burden pretty heavily, I should think.
As I ponder the end game here, I am tending to the view that trimming the world to three nations: Vikings, Gandhi, and a friend of Gandhi who is relatively powerless may be the way to go.
We will need to control enough population to manage the UN issue till we get to that point, though, and that is a situation that will come up sooner than I think any of us are expecting right now. Carrying the fight on until Brennus is gone from the map is probably the best solution to the short term requirements, then aiming our armies to the next biggest dog until we have the population needed (60%
to make the UN votes a non issue would be my approach, keeping our homelands as a production core to support that effort."it might be an idea to distribute our frigates on the coast tiles in front of the indian naval stack so that the indian vessels are forced to end their turn on an ocean tile if they want to advance further west."
That would divide our fleet so that Gandhi could conquer. Of course the AI is not known for such concerted action, so I'll consider it.
"We could consider asking Washington to adopt Free Religion. He will do this in return for 710g. This will improve his relations to Gandhi. The same thing can be done with Izzy, only we have to give her Liberalism first."
I'll do that if Gandhi doesn't land units that force me to upgrade all our MPs.
"As I ponder the end game here, I am tending to the view that trimming the world to three nations: Vikings, Gandhi, and a friend of Gandhi who is relatively powerless may be the way to go. "
Are you suggesting that getting Gandhi to trade with as many folks as possible is not going to be an effective strategy?
If we could get Gandhi to go to war with Hannibal and then weaken H's cities so he could take them, then that part of G's WW would go away once we eliminate H. Also thinking that we could raze H's cities near India and hope Gandhi fills in. All that presupposes we can get ahead of H in military tech.
Playing again now, but will check in.
That would divide our fleet so that Gandhi could conquer. Of course the AI is not known for such concerted action, so I'll consider it.
"We could consider asking Washington to adopt Free Religion. He will do this in return for 710g. This will improve his relations to Gandhi. The same thing can be done with Izzy, only we have to give her Liberalism first."
I'll do that if Gandhi doesn't land units that force me to upgrade all our MPs.
"As I ponder the end game here, I am tending to the view that trimming the world to three nations: Vikings, Gandhi, and a friend of Gandhi who is relatively powerless may be the way to go. "
Are you suggesting that getting Gandhi to trade with as many folks as possible is not going to be an effective strategy?
If we could get Gandhi to go to war with Hannibal and then weaken H's cities so he could take them, then that part of G's WW would go away once we eliminate H. Also thinking that we could raze H's cities near India and hope Gandhi fills in. All that presupposes we can get ahead of H in military tech.
Playing again now, but will check in.
You make some very good points here! 
I had hoped that a repeat of the Civ III version wouldn't happen, but perhaps you're right and it will. By giving our cities, we could make the situation worse...
Yes, I think this is a good approach. Is there a good way to transfer captured cities to Gandhi? Or would it be better to raze cities to clear a place for Gandhi to settle? The Carthaginian territory would be nice to give to Gandhi.
I agree, Brennus can go as he isn't talking.
Nice progress on the war CP. Keep up the pressure on Brennus.
Is Carthage the next victim? If so, can we give this territory to Gandhi?
I wonder if we start on the east coast and work our way to the west if Gandhi would follow along behind us and grab those cities? Is it worth trying?
Once we get Combustion, I think we should hold it as long as we can. Democracy to Rifling (unless we can arrange a trade) heading for Artillery?
CACTUS PETE
SGOTM4W REPORT FOR TURNS 336-340
336: Gandhi avoids my frigates (which I deployed to keep him off the forested tile NW of Hittite) and lands 9 units on gems west of Hittite. There are 2 rifles, 2 elephants, 1 mace, and 4 siege weapons. This should be interesting. I may need to use the GG to upgrade units after Gandhis cats degrade them.
Izzie now has Physics
337: Washington adopts Emancipation
As expected, Gandhis fleet retreats toward Delphi and his troops reduce Hittites cultural defenses from 40% to 12%, but he waits to attack. Counterattack reduces his forces 50%. Hittite is no longer in danger, but did use considerable gold for upgrades and inflicted WW on Gandhi (plus more next turn). Liking more and more the idea of giving him another enemy.
GG is reserved for upgrading four NS beserkers -- never had triple-city-raider infantry (or any infantry, for that matter) to play with.
Frigate now in Bombay; Ironclad trained in Upsalla
Continue to advance on last two Celtic cities
338: Hannibals Golden Age has ended (didnt know he had one)
Gandhis six-ship fleet retreats towards Lahore, he pillages a bit, weakly attacks Hittite, and is a bit lucky to kill a grenadier.
Gandhis men are all buried in Viking territory
339: Gandhi gets lucky and sinks our most advanced frigate in his waters
Camulodunum falls without losses, and Salamanca should be razed next turn
Hannibal has SAM infantry, which means he has Rocketry! This is reflected in his power graph. Going to war, weve gotten further behind than I thought at all likely.
Leptis has 2 such infantry, along with 2 cavalry and 2 rifles
Another frigate pops up in Bombay, and a galleon in Bangalore
340 (1610AD): Razed Salamanca and got four needed workers back, but probably a mistake, as Izzie is annoyed that we razed one of her cities.
Brennus is eliminated. Time to move on.
NOTES AND SUGGESTIONS
I have revolted back to Representation, since there is a great deal of war weariness and that civic will help with research.
Hannibal and Mehmed have a defensive pact.
Weve got a powerful military and probably need to find a use for it wherever/whenever we can gain a tactical advantage.
I sacrificed some workers to Gandhi (dont think I mentioned that above), and maybe we will need more when new techs give them something to do.
Settler in Samarqand is intended for the hill east of OS, as per leifs suggestion
Ive been herding an Indian frigate down our east coast toward an ironclad. Hope that can be followed through on.
I have been moving naval units toward Ning-hsia, anticipating that they will most likely be needed in that area next.
Some of the healing units in Brennus old territory can be moved by the galleons Ive left in the area. The rest could hike overland once we have orders for them.
Whoever plays next will need to be patient the first turn, because there are a great many units to determine what, if anything, to do with (now that the war is over), depending on the course(s) of action settled on; moreover, cities will need to be managed (presumably with science in mind) when they come out of the anarchy.
FOR DISCUSSION BEFORE PRODEEDING:
I had to fight Gandhi much too often (especially at sea), and were either going to have to change some dynamics or our tactics; otherwise, Im afraid that will continue and become increasingly frequent.
We may actually have enough ships soon to blockade all his ports, but that would slow down his research, so lets try something else.
I will try to find time to check in tomorrow and contribute to the discussion.
The save is below:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
SGOTM4W REPORT FOR TURNS 336-340
336: Gandhi avoids my frigates (which I deployed to keep him off the forested tile NW of Hittite) and lands 9 units on gems west of Hittite. There are 2 rifles, 2 elephants, 1 mace, and 4 siege weapons. This should be interesting. I may need to use the GG to upgrade units after Gandhis cats degrade them.
Izzie now has Physics
337: Washington adopts Emancipation
As expected, Gandhis fleet retreats toward Delphi and his troops reduce Hittites cultural defenses from 40% to 12%, but he waits to attack. Counterattack reduces his forces 50%. Hittite is no longer in danger, but did use considerable gold for upgrades and inflicted WW on Gandhi (plus more next turn). Liking more and more the idea of giving him another enemy.
GG is reserved for upgrading four NS beserkers -- never had triple-city-raider infantry (or any infantry, for that matter) to play with.
Frigate now in Bombay; Ironclad trained in Upsalla
Continue to advance on last two Celtic cities
338: Hannibals Golden Age has ended (didnt know he had one)
Gandhis six-ship fleet retreats towards Lahore, he pillages a bit, weakly attacks Hittite, and is a bit lucky to kill a grenadier.
Gandhis men are all buried in Viking territory
339: Gandhi gets lucky and sinks our most advanced frigate in his waters
Camulodunum falls without losses, and Salamanca should be razed next turn
Hannibal has SAM infantry, which means he has Rocketry! This is reflected in his power graph. Going to war, weve gotten further behind than I thought at all likely.
Leptis has 2 such infantry, along with 2 cavalry and 2 rifles
Another frigate pops up in Bombay, and a galleon in Bangalore
340 (1610AD): Razed Salamanca and got four needed workers back, but probably a mistake, as Izzie is annoyed that we razed one of her cities.
Brennus is eliminated. Time to move on.
NOTES AND SUGGESTIONS
I have revolted back to Representation, since there is a great deal of war weariness and that civic will help with research.
Hannibal and Mehmed have a defensive pact.
Weve got a powerful military and probably need to find a use for it wherever/whenever we can gain a tactical advantage.
I sacrificed some workers to Gandhi (dont think I mentioned that above), and maybe we will need more when new techs give them something to do.
Settler in Samarqand is intended for the hill east of OS, as per leifs suggestion
Ive been herding an Indian frigate down our east coast toward an ironclad. Hope that can be followed through on.
I have been moving naval units toward Ning-hsia, anticipating that they will most likely be needed in that area next.
Some of the healing units in Brennus old territory can be moved by the galleons Ive left in the area. The rest could hike overland once we have orders for them.
Whoever plays next will need to be patient the first turn, because there are a great many units to determine what, if anything, to do with (now that the war is over), depending on the course(s) of action settled on; moreover, cities will need to be managed (presumably with science in mind) when they come out of the anarchy.
FOR DISCUSSION BEFORE PRODEEDING:
I had to fight Gandhi much too often (especially at sea), and were either going to have to change some dynamics or our tactics; otherwise, Im afraid that will continue and become increasingly frequent.
We may actually have enough ships soon to blockade all his ports, but that would slow down his research, so lets try something else.
I will try to find time to check in tomorrow and contribute to the discussion.
The save is below:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/539/Xteam_in_progress.CivWarlordsSave
Frederiksberg
Deity
Cactus Pete said:
This should be possible when done the other way around. We ask Hannibal to "join" us in the war against Gandhi. He is open for this suggestion (can be seen by calling him up. War against Gandhi is not in red). When he DOWs Gandhi his Defensive Pact with Mehmet is also conveniently cancelled. Then we attack him full force
. The attack could be a mix of razing cities and pillaging production tiles to make sure he is weakened and weakening his defenses in cities we hope Gandhi can capture (bombing and killing all defenders except one). One problem with this plan is that Hannibal may be researching Assembly Line now and could have infantry quite soon. That would probably force us to halt the war until we can upgrade our CR grenadiers to infantry.Leif Erikson said:
Best way for Gandhi to get territory is to capture it from Hannibal because it would raise WW with Hannibal and not us (These are separate numbers). The WW with Hannibal he can get rid of. If we are going to war against Hannibal we should also keep Railroad to ourselves - machine guns are very tough defenders if you don't have any artillery.
EDIT: And one more thing. We need a tech we can bribe Hannibal with. Democracy is a possibility. Bribing him with Railroad and then attacking sounds silly to me.
Nice work CP, Brennus is now a memory! Roster:
Gator - UP
RRAU - On Deck
Bede
Sanabas
Leif
Frederiksberg
Cactus Pete - Just played!
@RRAU - You are probably next, if you have the time.
Hannibal has Democracy.This should be possible when done the other way around. We ask Hannibal to "join" us in the war against Gandhi. He is open for this suggestion (can be seen by calling him up. War against Gandhi is not in red). When he DOWs Gandhi his Defensive Pact with Mehmet is also conveniently cancelled. Then we attack him full force
EDIT: And one more thing. We need a tech we can bribe Hannibal with. Democracy is a possibility. Bribing him with Railroad and then attacking sounds silly to me.
I like the concept of this but I don't think Gandhi is in any shape to exploit the advantage we're trying to give him. He doesn't have Steel, so no Cannons. He doesn't have Democracy, so he has to be feeling the Emancipation pinch. I think we have to gift/trade Steel to Izzie right away and we should probably also think about Steam Power as well.
Perhaps we need to take a little time to consolidate and get some Jails built to reduce WW? We are burning up 30% on the culture slider to keep happiness that we need in the research column to catch up a bit.
Perhaps we should delay researching Combustion and try to get Biology so we can trade for a few techs we need, should we reach it first?
Blockading Gandhi's ports, as you said CP, will probably only set him back. I think we need to set back Hannibal. He's higher in the power chart than us and may have a bit better tech. We need to slow that down. How?
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