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SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jul 22, 2007.

  1. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    @R1: I suspect you forgot to attach the WB save.
    @all: link to another barbarian SG, where we could learn something about barbarian behaviour (besides not using the right forks/knives while eating fish :lol: )
     
  2. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

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    That works for me too. Are we agreed that first item is move the scout, then upload a screenshot? Might even move scout one tile, post screenshot, to decide whether to finish scout move or move settler next.

    So is it Scout west, or scout northwest for the first move?

    Eventually, after the discussions, we have to vote! ;)

    I might be done upgrading by the end of tonight, so if Lehm isn't ready to kick off, I might be in position to do it by tomorrow (if the install goes well).

    dV
     
  3. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

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    Maybe this is the way to proceed:

    Scout moves either W, NW or NW, NW. This tells us whether we want to settle 2W of settler or not. If nothing attracts us to settle 2W, then decision is to settle NW, E, SE, or in place. Depends on what is North regarding seafood and what is 3E 1N of settler. How to see all of that?

    We can test who sees what in the test game. If settler on pig hill reveals the tile 3E, that might be the move. But if there is no other seafood, if we then prefer SE to in place, then pig hill move means we don't found until third turn.

    We should test out which moves see the critical tiles in the test game before we start.

    dV
     
  4. Lehm

    Lehm Gypsy Jester

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    I would like to play a test game but I can´t find the link to an already posted test game. Will Thrallia make a new one soon? Or can anybody tell me where I can find the link.

    By the way, next week I won´t have too much time because I am going to write some exams where I have to learn for. (The whole week!) So I guess I shouldn´t be the first to play. But I will check the discussion every day to stay up to date.
     
  5. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    Let's try again. I was in a hurry this morning and didn't notice that the WB save was rejected as an invalid file type. So the best I can do is the 4000BC save file. If you've done a dual install, this file should work with the last 1.61 mod.
     
  6. Thrallia

    Thrallia Prodigal Staffer GOTM Staff

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    hm...maybe I should be the first to play after all lol

    I finished installing BtS earlier tonight...its amazing how fast it runs! I was able to turn on antialiasing and ramp the graphics up to High, and it ran about twice as fast as it used to for me on medium with no antialiasing.

    I wonder if 1.74 and 2.13 added in the tweaks they made to make it run smoother or not...anyway, I'll check out Vanilla in the morning and see if I get that error...if not, I'll try to make and post a save that is set up for the custom mod we need for this game.
     
  7. Lehm

    Lehm Gypsy Jester

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    still online R1?? In Washington it should be 2 in the morning... That´s what I call self-abandonment for the team... lol
     
  8. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    The Roster order is still a very fluid situation in my mind. I can't play now anyway, because I haven't even begun to start my dual install. I've been very busy lately, but it will get better after I return next week. Right now, I'm kind of waiting for a consensus on how we intend to start our opening moves, and find out who has the ability to play the first set.

    I favor moving the scout NW-NW to the forest, and depending on what we see, I figure we've got a couple options.
    1. If we pick up resources close, settle in place.
    2. If we don't get anything close, move settler to pig hill for good look so we make a well informed decision on turn 2.
     
  9. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    @ Lehm,
    I am in Washington State (Pacific Coast Time 12:00). But I'm about done for the day. Did you get your update and starting save file to open? Are you interested in leading off?

    @ Thrallia,
    What part of the world do you reside in? How did your ugrade go? Have you been able to view the starting save file yet?

    @ ALL,
    Has anyone done a successful dual install? I sure wish Gandhi wasn't such a moron, I/we wouldn't need to worry about dual installs.
     
  10. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

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    I've set up the old folders, and those files load and load mods correctly.

    Tonight I'll install BtS, and see if the old files still work, then try the normal HOF mods for the new patch versions, and finally try the 05 mod.

    Might make sense for Thrallia to lead off ... after we are sure of the first scout move. Might move one tile, select settler to see blue circles, post a screen, discusss, move next tile, select settler, post a screen, discuss, etc. until we get first city founded.

    Everyone should play around with first move options. If we are happy founding on the third turn, here is one result in the test game.

    Is 2W better than 1 SW (from settler start point)?

    dV
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Lehm

    Lehm Gypsy Jester

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    Everything is updated and working fine. I downloaded the file and could open it.
     
  12. hellwitch

    hellwitch Prince

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    I have some questions :
    1.First what this mean - first move options? Is this some HOF mode stuff?
    2. While some other teamate is on turn can i load as many turn as he is playing or i must only load his uploaded file?
    3. When it is my turn to play - Can i load few times or i must play the whole session in one load?
    4. What kind of info and from where to get it when i must post after my turn(i know for the battle log but what else?)

    One other thing - i managed to run 1.74 at last:mischief:
     
  13. Lehm

    Lehm Gypsy Jester

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    1. step: move scout NW NW - then post a screenshot for new discussion.

    In the test game IMO it would have been best to settle 1SE of the starting spot to get the second hill into the fat cross and to have a harbour city.

    Other things I learned from the test game:

    barb spawning: - turn 7: animals - 2
    turn 8: animals - 8
    turn 9: animals - 10
    turn 10: animals -9
    from this time the maximum number of barb animals stayed at 10 until first warriors appeared in turn 42

    turn 42: warrior - 2
    archer - 1
    animals - 7
    turn 43: warrior - 4
    archer - 3
    animals - 5
    turn 44: warrior - 5
    archer - 3
    animals - 3

    I teched mining ( 3550BC) first then bronze (2680BC). I got archery in 2950BC . SO this is what the barbs are teching to first.

    First axeman appeared in the same turn when I got bronze ( turn 46 )
    but 2nd and 3rd axeman appeared 19 turns later ( in turn 65)

    Then I made the mistake to make peace with almost everyone but Tokugawa and Alex what caused the barbs staying out of the territory of the civs I had peace with. So I recommend to stay at war with everybody as long as warweariness makes it possible.

    In turn 60 first barb city was founded. barb cites aren´t so good because the barbs almost always have a lot of units (3) there which could be more helpful in enemy territory but of course we can´t do anyhing to prevent barb cities from spawning.

    The techs I got from the barbs where the following:
    1. archery
    2. agriculture
    3. animal husbandry (685BC)
    I also got Mystic, Hunting and Sailing but I don´t remember when exactly

    I by myself teched

    1. mining
    2. bronze
    3. Wheel
    4. fishing
    5. pottery
    6. ironworking

    That was a mistake. I think we should directly tech towards ironworking to give the swordman to the barbs. They were really good in the game and even conquered a city.

    The disadvantage of this tech path is that we don´t get our cities upgraded because the workers won´t have anything to do until we get agriculture from the barbs. Good thing is that our second city probably will have a lot of jungle we could chop.

    Other things fom the game
    Stonehenge 1690 BC
    Oracle 955BC
    Pyramids in 640BC

    Oh, and we don´t get a bonus from the tribal villages when moving on them. But we get the bonus when our borders expand.
     
  14. Lehm

    Lehm Gypsy Jester

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    1st question: That just means everyone should think about the first steps to make in the game. What options do we have? Where is the best spot to settle and how long should we delay the building of our capital.

    2nd question: Only one player is really playing the game as I understood right. This player will post screenshots and we all will discuss about what to do next. After a couple of turns the player will upload the game save file and the next player will download it to be next to play.

    3rd question: You could play in one load but if there are decisions to make you should stop then post a screenshot and we will discuss the problem. Reloading and playing one turn or more again is not allowed of course.

    4th question: I don´t understand the question... sorry..:confused:
     
  15. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    My 2¢ on hellwitch's questions:
    I downloaded the files but haven't been brave enough to try it. :crazyeye:

    I read the SG thread I referred to earlier, and I found good info there, but the same can be achieved playing testgames as Lehm just did (I haven't done).

    So I propose Lehm takes the lead, moves scout 2NW and post screenie for discussion.
     
  16. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

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    I would be fine with Lehm in the lead, as he has a test game under his belt.

    I think we might want to tighten up our thoughts on where to put our first city.

    If we don't find any seafood, or any other resource or hill in our initial search, where would we settle?

    Using my screenshot from above as reference, is 1 SE (from settler start) better than in place because of the jungle hill, as Lehm suggests? I think it might be, because if no second hill, we either waste the pigs on mining the hill, or have pitiful production in the capital forever.

    If that is true, what would we need to find in the fat cross of settling in place to make us do that? Seafood? Or perhaps a hill in the west, or some other land resource (cows, for example).

    What would it take to make us settle 2W of initial settler start? In my screenshot, the seafood on the west coast and the pigs could be in the fat cross of 2W. But then we have to use the hill as a mine to get hammers, so finding seafood to go with the pig hill does not seem that useful to me. I think the pig hill is better used as a pasture (food, health) to support a mine on another hill ... so 1 SE still looks good.

    Now if we agree that seafood + pighill is not all that useful, then finding seafood is not so critical ... and the move of the settler to the pig hill may not matter. Which means we can keep the settler in position to settle 1 SE on turn two as a fall back position. And which would mean that knowing what is 3E 1N of settler start is not that important either.

    In the short run, seafood + pighill may be useful running nets and mine on pigs. Then later pasture the pigs. If we think that makes sense, then we do search the seafood, and probably need to move settler to pighill for a look. Or settler 1E, (seafood 3 E?) then scout to pighill on turn 2, then settler can either settlle in place or SE (of start) on turn 2.

    Otherwise, we are settling on turn 3 if we climb the hill, or turn 4 if we climb the hill and then decide to settle 2W of start.

    I do think we should upload a screenshot after scout moves 1 NW and before he finishes move, in case we want to finish due W or even SW after what we see.

    dV
     
  17. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    This is not necessarilly true. The "Barbs"/Us, get "Free" Beakers each turn for all the techs that the AI's know.
    EXAMPLE:If Archery is only ~100 beakers and all AI's(7) know it, in 15 turns we get it for free (7x15=105).

    @ Hellwitch, The main rule is just as C63 said, ONLY the current player can make ANY moves. All other players are free to LOOK at the save file all they want, just no playing!:nono: AS C63 said, Playing is defined as doing ANYTHING that is PERMANENT (not reversible).

    @ All of the new guys. I'm looking for keyboard shortcuts for your names. The ones I use currently are
    Ronnie1=R1
    da_Vinci=dV
    Conquistador 63=C63
    Scout214=S214 or 214
    g_storrow=g_s or gs
    Thrallia=?
    Hellwitch=?
    Lehm=?

    I am leaning towards Lehm playing the first turnset.
     
  18. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

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    Sorry to be confusing. Lehm has it right, I just meant use the test game to see how different scout and settler moves see into various tiles, and how that affects how long it takes to settle certain locations. Can we see what we want to see and still settle on turn 2?

    Very important NOT to play along with the person whose turn it is to play. When the save is posted, you can look at that save, you can do anything to that save that you can undo (such as change citizen tile assignments in a city, change the research, look at what someone will offer in trade [but don't execute the trade], look at the cost of changing civics [but don't start the revolution]). In other words, you can do things that you can undo to return the position to the most recent save uploaded.

    What you can't do is anything that is a permanent change. No unit moves. No revolutions. No execution of trade deals. No whipping or drafting.

    Unless you are the active player, you should not have a save, or have created a position whether you save it or not, that is irreversilbly more advanced than the last uploaded save.

    Ideally you would play one session. Generally sessions will be 10 turns, plus or minus a few if there is some logical stopping point that is not at exacty 10 turns. Sometimes at the start we play 20 for a while, but with the barb allies maybe 10 is best at the start too for this one.

    If a crisis come up at turn 5, it is fine for your to upload, we discuss, and you play on for the rest of your 5 turns. I suppose that if you had to take a break at turn 5 and resume the next day that would be fine as well, but I would try not to have more than one break between save uploads. Hopefully, it won't be too hard to play all 10 turns in one session.

    When you upload, the system will give you a "receipt" page giving the details of your submission. Cut and paste that into a document, as it will include what it calls your "session log" which I think is a copy of the log that Civ generates in the upper left corner. That is what I call the upload log in my reports.

    The HOF mod also has an autolog feature. This saves to a folder called autolog. You can customize more or less detail in this one. If you select forum tags, it displays with a color code in the forum. That is what I call autolog in my reports.

    I usually give a short narrative of the key events, where I think we are going from here, and any immenent threats. Then I post the autolog and the upload log. I keep a minimum of handwritten notes.

    dV
     
  19. Thrallia

    Thrallia Prodigal Staffer GOTM Staff

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    I live in Oklahoma, and yes, I have weird hours I'm on here lol

    I didn't dual install, no need since I have no more open 1.61 games left, but installing through BtS was painless, and I was able to easily open the save file.

    I don't really have a shortcut I'm aware of with this game...my other online nick, Vulcanis, has a shortcut(vulc), but the only one I'm aware of for thrallia is thrall...not much of a shortcut :p
    Feel free to figure one out on your own :lol:

    I'm about to set up a test game and post it in here, it'll require the correct mod, so we can play past the discovery of alphabet.
     
  20. hellwitch

    hellwitch Prince

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    Maybe but i am married:lol: :king:

    I've look at the save 1W 2N seems sea, 2w 2n too so all the land we have is maybe 1,2 tile in the West and in south direction to the jungle. I've made a test game too. M,BW,IW seems the best way. We get for free - archery,hunting wheel and all cheep thech very early. But about the peace/war - from what i saw away war is not good either - the AI archer get garnison promotion vs warrior and the axes can't be very effective. I think that few cases of cease fire can make bigger groups of barb troops which could do better job. One ather thought on my arhipelago start test - the chance for land enemy is quite low - arount 10-15%. And one thing for the poor production on the start location - if there is second food(maybe sea food) in the fat cross the wimp could make our first hammers + chop ofcource. The fresh water must be taken as argument too . On arhipelago the resources are fewer.

    Ronnie1 you can call me HW or hell. In case you didn't know i am man to mater on the nick name
     

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