SGOTM 05 - Mac Team

[dr_s]

Finished my test game. Domination win in 1832.

Alan, the mod told me I exceeded the domination limit, but the game didn't recognize it as a win. I assume that's correct, and that unpatched Civ IV doesn't allow the barb team to actually win?

One thing to think about: culture victory. I think I might have been able to win sooner with a cultural victory, after I knocked out 3 of the 7 AIs. The AIs really do see us as the barbs; they don't send big stacks at us, at least in my experience. And we only really suffer from WW when we go on the offensive, so turtling at some point and spamming cottages for the cultural win might be the way to go. Especially if we have three capitals to serve as the cultural cities.

 

[peter grimes]

Cultural? That's an interesting idea.

My game went terrible, I'm ashamed to say. I still haven't given up, but I lost both StoneHenge and The Oracle.

 

[AlanH]

@dr_s: Please can you post your completed game? The mod *should* have given you the win - that was the point of writing it. If I can see why it failed I can adapt the mod to fix the problem, and since you haven't started yet I can re-issue the mod and the start file.

 

[peter grimes]

The AIs really do see us as the barbs; they don't send big stacks at us, at least in my experience. And we only really suffer from WW when we go on the offensive

This is entirely consistent with my experiences as well. There was an Indian archer, Combat 3, wandering around inside my capital's borders, but the barb never attacked the city (defended by a warrior and an archer), but he did follow my worker around all over the place. Even when I had my worker lead the Indian archer to anotehr barb city, defended by a single archer, the INdian didn't attack.

 

[dr_s]

Alan, I've attached the save game.

 

[AlanH]

OK, thanks dr_s, I've found the error. I had moved a function name from C++ to Python without verifying that it existed there. It didn't!

I've fixed it, and that save now produces a Domination victory when you hit next turn.

So. I've rebuilt the mod and the start file. They are in the same places as before. PLEASE ensure that you destroy any copies of the old versions that you have downloaded:

The Mod

The Start File

 

[a_man]

Hey, Third time is the charm.

I am starting a new job tomarrow so won't have much time to practice but i should have plenty of time for 30-20 turn sets i geuss ill just keep checking back till we start

Finally yes waiting on the worker is the way to go last test game showed me that for sure but the barraks up to after the 2nd warrior so as to have exp. on our units a little sooner s well as haveing the option to swith to an archer as soon as we can seeing as warriors come off as pretty useless really soon(even with cover).

 

[peter grimes]

Yeah, so I restarted another test game, under the revised mod (thanks Alan )

I'm starting to look at things in a big picture way (but I'm sure everyone else has already arrived at this )

Barbs spawn in the Fog, the longer the game goes on, the less fog there is. Therefore we can only use the barbs to significant advantage early on - before, say, 1000 BC. After that, the AI has succeeded in establishing two to three cities per civ, excepting the couple that I've managed to fortify units near.

Therefore the Strategy must shift - peace is not an evil prospect here, and tech trading might be very fruitful. After all, we're starting from the most severe tech deficit of all!

This past test, I didn't even try for StoneHenge or the Oracle, instead focussing on playing a 'normal' game, but beelining for IronWorking. I hope to finish the game tomorrow.

 

[dr_s]

Barbs spawn in the Fog, the longer the game goes on, the less fog there is. Therefore we can only use the barbs to significant advantage early on - before, say, 1000 BC. After that, the AI has succeeded in establishing two to three cities per civ, excepting the couple that I've managed to fortify units near.

This is not true; it's certainly possible (even easy) to maintain large amounts of fog for the entire game. In the game I won, barb grenadiers were spawning in the 1800's.

The key is to just eliminate the AIs from a section of the map and then let that land lie fallow, as it were. In the map I won on, this was easy, because I started on a sort of isthmus that connected two larger masses. So once I eliminated the AI to the east, there was a LARGE region that spawned barbs for the rest of the game. (Until I decided to go for domination and started settling it myself.) If the actual map allows us to do something similar, then a continual barb army is certainly possible.

As for teching, I found the barb tech bonus to be quite useful for the whole game. We'll want more than usual to avoid following the AI tech path. It's actually an advantage when all the AIs get a tech that we don't---we can just wait and accumulate beakers. I think it's 3% of the beakers per tech once all the AIs know it. That doesn't sound like a lot, but if you're accumulating this on three or four different techs, it really adds up.

I can take the first turn set next week if no one else wants to go first. I'll need some guidance on settling/exploring, and I'd like to hear from willpax and welnic first---you guys still out there?

 

[peter grimes]

That's a good point - I hadn't considered that!

So it seems that, depending on the geography, we may need to concentrate our efforts in one quadrant at a time, eliminating AI one by one. I had been trying a different approach, keeping all the AI 'under siege' more or less the entire time.

 

[a_man]

i was thinking keep them all at seige(at least the closest) to keep them down but only destroying what the barbs made easy for us

 

[peter grimes]

OKAY, I think we need to get this game started. Is everyone ready?

Personally, I don't feel ready. But I'm not sure that I will ever feel ready

If dr_s takes the first round, I could take the second.

Where are Welnic and willpax????

 

[willpax]

I'm here and ready to start, although I haven't done much practicing with the mod. Real life has been somewhat busy. I'll jump in, but might want a lot of guidance. I have read some of the threads and reports, so I think I can pull my weight.

 

[dr_s]

I agree we should start, and I can go first, as soon as tomorrow, perhaps. I have some questions first:

(1) Should I settle in place, or explore? If I were playing this solo, I would probably move the scout W->NW first. If that revealed more food to the west, I would be tempted to settle 1 SW of the current location. Would people be mad if I did this? Alternatively, I could settle in place and hope that there is seafood to the north. What about that option? Lastly, I could move the settler onto the pig hill. Or, I could move the scout and post a screenshot. Thoughts?

(2) My initial plan will be Mi->BW for techs and War->War->Barracks for builds. If we have seafood in the BFC and there aren't other civs nearby, I might go War->Workboat->Barracks instead.

(3) I'll do 30 turns. Agreed? If something happens that would make me consider a radical course change, I'll discuss first.

 

[a_man]

all of that sounds great to me

i would move the scout and see if there is any more food or even a plains hill forest near by as that will really help pump out the units, but regaurdless i would settle on the first turn, dosent seem like much but we'll need all the turns we get

W NW for the scout is sttill a little ify for me but it will reveal more land but will it reveal the sea as well (for the seafood)

 

[dojoboy]

Hey, do you guys mind if I join as a lurker?

You guys might not want to have turn-sets at 20 turns. That's quite a bit to write up well once things get going. My .02 worth.

 

[peter grimes]

I'm in favor of making certain we're settling in the best known spot. Think about it: We're starting with no techs at all, and waiting another turn or two won't result in the usual dilemma as in single player, because the Barbarians will be conducting research for us. Those beakers will more than offset a delay of 1 or 2 turns before we start researching ourselves. Of course, that won't help our towns any, but as long as we can keep the AI down a little, we won't be quite as far behind.

IN short - by all means scout for a turn or two!

@Dojoboy - You're welcome to lurk, as far as I care, but I'd much prefer if you actually played as well

 

[dr_s]

Peter, you convinced me. Unless someone else objects, I'll move the scout W-SW (or maybe W-W) and the settler onto one of the hills. That should allow me to see everything in the region. If there's an obvious spot I'll settle myself, otherwise I'll post screen shots for discussion.

 

[peter grimes]

I was just rereading Krikkitone's War Weariness article, and came across this disturbing note:

You gain no WW from Combat actions against Barbarians

This means that the AI will not get WW from us. Too bad.

 

[dojoboy]

@Dojoboy - You're welcome to lurk, as far as I care, but I'd much prefer if you actually played as well

Thanks PG. You guys look like you can use another player, and the Mac connection is a plus. I'll PM AlanH to see if it's possible. But, personally, I'm a little wary of the 30/20 turns per set. W/ school starting, teaching a new course, and wife & kids, I'll be pressed for time and writing up 20 turns when things get going will make my turn longer than I need to be spending. Is there any consideration for 10 turn sets after the first round through?