SGOTM 05 - Mac Team

[willpax]

I'm using Safari 2, and I did try to download linked file using the contextual menu; I'm somewhat puzzled about what happened.

I will now download the save from the appropriate location, look over things, and post a turn plan (that may gang aft agley).

 

[willpax]

The Pyramids is currently 153 turns (deceptive because of population growth, but still a long time). We will get our 4th pop in the capital in 3 turns.

I was thinking of switching to a settler to start on city #3 once capital grows--it would currently take 22 turns, less with the 4th pop working a forest tile. Then, switch back to pyramids with a third city beginning to grow (in the marked location south).

Diplomatically, I'm not sure how much more to do. In terms of research, we are 2 turns from animal husbandry, with some likelihood of horses within city borders. After that, what? Agriculture will take 3 turns or less with the barb bonus. Do we beeline for iron working (30+ turns), or start working toward the Oracle for a free tech? Or begin working on infrastructure techs by moving toward writing? I don't think we will be able to do all of it. I'm leaning toward writing in order to run some specialists, but I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise.

I'll try to play this evening or tomorrow, but I'll give people a chance to chime in.

 

[dr_s]

That time will be cut in half once stone is hooked up. It may get cut in half again if we get horses in the BFC. So it might be thirty turns. In any case, I think we should chop it once stone is hooked up. That's 40 hammers per chop, correct?

I worry about crashing our economy if we settle a third city now. Also, we'd have to settle in jungle and we don't yet have iron working.

I don't like the "marked" city location---it has no food. One city with no food is bad enough. I would remove that mark.

I don't think we have a prayer for the oracle, and I don't think we need it.

I do think we should redeclare war on Saladin.

For techs, I like AG->Writing->Alpha.

 

[a_man]

I don't think we have a prayer for the oracle, and I don't think we need it.

I do think we should redeclare war on Saladin.

For techs, I like AG->Writing->Alpha.

Pyrimids does for us what we were planning to do with the oracle


We.had a peace treaty with a few people, we have to remember to negotiate it to a cease fire. and i forgot to check back

I'm not to sure about useing both our citys to build wonders but we should get them done and have time to army up and set sail (before every one gets ahead of us)

as for hammers chopped it changes depending on the trees and is not up 50% from math yet but i would expect it to be between 20-30

 

[peter grimes]

Remember - this is Epic speed, so chops are more than the usual.

Forest Chop calculator reveals that 45 are derived from every forest chop inside the BFC, which will double once stone is hooked up. That's why it's imperative that we first quarry the stone, and then road it, before doing anything else with the worker. We don't need a road between the towns as they have a trade network via the coast

 

[dojoboy]

Remember - this is Epic speed, so chops are more than the usual.

Forest Chop calculator reveals that 45 are derived from every forest chop inside the BFC, which will double once stone is hooked up. That's why it's imperative that we first quarry the stone, and then road it, before doing anything else with the worker. We don't need a road between the towns as they have a trade network via the coast

Thanks for the link PG. I think this is a sound course to follow for the worker.

 

[dr_s]

I forgot this was epic. But Peter, I think that's the post-Math chart. On normal, chops are 20 pre-Math and 30 post-Math, which translates to 30 and 45 on epic. So, what Peter said. Hook up stone, then chop.

 

[peter grimes]

post-math... yes, I bet you are right. I so rarely play on epic, I'm not too familiar with the adjustments.

 

[a_man]

yes, epic its a differnt beast.

i just habitually build a road first but i do really see the advantage of improving first.

30 isn't bad for a chop(pre-math) then i remember that pyrimids cost more as well, on epic.

 

[willpax]

OK: I will maintain work on the Pyramids while I move to connect the stone as quickly as possible, then start chopping forests. I'll work toward writing and alphabet to begin getting the tools necessary to run some scientist specialists. I will look to use cease fire agreements instead of peace treaties.

is there an advantage to declaring war on Saladin without the means to attack him ourselves right now?

 

[a_man]

yes there should be 3 or so barbs ready to move in, this will, at the least, pillage some of his improvements and slow him down so that we can attack him when we can.

 

[willpax]

Turn completed: general tone of quiet preparation.

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1300 BC to 835 BC:

Turn 90, 1300 BC: Beshbalik has been founded.
Turn 90, 1300 BC: Saladin adopts Slavery!

Turn 91, 1270 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Judaism has been founded in Barcelona!
Turn 91, 1270 BC: Alexander adopts Slavery!

Turn 92, 1240 BC: Isabella adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 92, 1240 BC: Isabella converts to Judaism!
Turn 92, 1240 BC: You have discovered Agriculture!

Turn 93, 1210 BC: Tokugawa adopts Slavery!

Turn 103, 955 BC: You have discovered Pottery!

Turn 106, 910 BC: Isabella has completed The Oracle!

Turn 109, 865 BC: Isabella adopts Slavery!

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm5/Mac_Team_SG005_BC0835_01.Civ4SavedGame

I'm getting a bit concerned about Isabella; she founded Judaism and revolted to slavery on my turn set, so we might think about a war declaration soon. The quarry is finished, and the pasture for the horses just south of the capital was begun on my last turn (I really wish we had two workers, but I'm getting worried about wonder completion. The war weariness was gettting bad, with 2 unhappy for a while).

 

[a_man]

maybe some peace is in order so as to finish the wonders on time, not every one but a couple will help.

 

[dr_s]

Looking at the save now.

Pyramids: We're at 181 of 675 right now. We have three forests to chop, which I think will give us a total of 90 . Once the horses are hooked up, we can produce 18 per turn, so we should finish in about 25 turns, including a whip at the end. Hopefully that will be fast enough.

We are 8 turns from Stonehenge in city 2.

Unfortunately, it looks like Alex and Saladin have been able to fogbust most of their lands. We can't make peace with Saladin right now, but I guess we should as soon as possible, since there won't be many barbs spawning against him. I don't know what to do about Alex; he's beginning to expand onto the big island.

The barbs have crippled Cyrus by taking his capital. I think we should make peace with him to allow the barbs to concentrate on the other AI's. We should probably make peace with Asoka if we can---his capital has obviously killed a bunch of barbs, since it's on a hill. Making peace with him may decrease war weariness, since I think our WW is calculated on a per-civ basis.

I agree that Isabella is looking dangerous; she completed the Oracle. Maybe if we can get peace with Asoka and Cyrus we should redeclare on her?

We are at peace with Qin, but there are a bunch of barbs and one barb city up on his island. I say we redeclare on him.

After writing, I think we should continue to alphabet to see where we are with respect to techs. After that, I'm not so sure. Should we go for Lit. to get the Great Library? Or MC to get Colossus? Or Math->Con to get cats? We'll have lots of coastal tiles to work, so Colossus may be very helpful.

For builds, once we are done with our wonders, we need to crank out a settler or two and also begin spamming chariots, axes and galleys, I think.

From looking at the map, it seems we should have already circumnavigated the globe, but I don't see a message to that effect in the event log. Curious.

What do y'all think?

Oh, and I can play next if Welnic doesn't show up. I won't do anything without some discussion, though.

 

[peter grimes]

Too bad about the Oracle... but no great loss. We've got Barbarian Beakers on our side

I agree that Colossus could be pretty useful, and we could build it fairly fast due to the copper, but shouldn't we be more concerned with putting into an invasion force? These civs aren't going to conquer themselves!

In terms of Military Strategy, we should try to prevent the AI from settling islands. Even if we don't settle them ourselves, Our Brethren may eventually found a city on them. So maybe the first military action should eliminate Alex from the large island?

Techwise, I agree with getting through writing.

 

[a_man]

Eliminate him from the island, or take his capital, either should slow him down considerably. I always find thta you should go for the strongest city first (when trying to eliminate) because most re-enforcements would come from there.

Other then that i agree with it all

I guess we should give welnic a day or 2 but after that, get it on.

i remember reading some where that the barb team can't get circum-nav +1 movment

 

[Welnic]

I'll grab the things I need and try to get up to speed tonight.

 

[a_man]

ok let us know

 

[Welnic]

So, I can sort of tell what is going on.

I need to do 20 turns?
Try for peace with Asoka and Cyrus, and Sal if I can get it. War with Qin, and Isabella if enough peace elsewhere.
Tech alphabet after writing. I would do iron working instead.
Chop the forests for the pyramids. Build a worker in Beshbalik after stonehenge and hook up the gold.

 

[dr_s]

Welnic,

Can you elaborate on your thoughts about IW vs. Alpha? Personally, I'm undecided. IW is obviously going to be very important for us. On the other hand, Alpha tells us where we are w.r.t. the AIs and we can potentially trade it for IW.

As for the build in Beshbalik, I think that starting on a worker after Stonehenge is good. It should be chopped once the other worker has chopped all the forests around the capital. Then the workers can farm the riverside tile and hook up the gold.

The more I think about it, the more I think my suggestion to redeclare on Sal was wrong, and that we should get peace ASAP. If a galley from Saladin shows up, we could be in trouble.

Remember, take cease fires instead of peace treaties.

And yes, 20 turns. And any other input you have is more than welcome!