namliaM
Deity
Is that smart in a situation where we are stuck at 20% research?
SGOTM 06 - Misfits
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Is that smart in a situation where we are stuck at 20% research?
ChrisFromLux
former 'Misfit'
Warrior --> Axeman = 110
!That's what we earn when running on 0% science for 11 turns
namliaM
Deity
I just went back into the saves before we founded Hastings and Captured Athens
Year/City Maintenance/Civic upkeep
100BC 13 02
050AD 19 03 (Diff is roughly Settling of Hastings, 6 + 1 = 7 gpt)
200AD 21 10 (Capture of Athens, 2 + 7 = 9 gpt)
350AD 28 10 (Working athens, 7 + 9 = 16GPT cost total for Athens )
Notice the (big) jump of 7 gpt in Civic upkeep, that bites hard...
Year/City Maintenance/Civic upkeep
100BC 13 02
050AD 19 03 (Diff is roughly Settling of Hastings, 6 + 1 = 7 gpt)
200AD 21 10 (Capture of Athens, 2 + 7 = 9 gpt)
350AD 28 10 (Working athens, 7 + 9 = 16GPT cost total for Athens
)Notice the (big) jump of 7 gpt in Civic upkeep, that bites hard...
namliaM
Deity
OK So I met Chris on Skype this morning and he found an error in my GS calc.
Horico cannot sustain 2 scientists as it only has +3 food (where 4 is required)
It would either need Nottinghams Rice, meaning Nottingham cannot work the 7 GPT gold mine. (not an option we think)
If we run 2 scientists in Athens it needs to wait for the library and then ONLY have a chance at the GS and the GS really really helps we think.
So we come up with the following plan:
There is currently 38 food stored in Horico, this means we can run 2 scientists for 37 turns without starving.
For the second GP we need (300 GPP / 6 ) 50 turns of 2 scientists.
So we are -for the moment- 50 - 37 = 13 turns short of the mark for the GS. Now BEFORE (and this is real important) BEFORE Horico starves we need to earn us some more food. 13 turns at -1 food, so we require 13 food. 13 / 3 (food surplus in Horico/turn) = 5 turns.
So before starving Horico we need to run 5 more turns of "no scientists" to restok food.
All this means this takes a total of 37 + 5 + 13 = 55 turns giving us a small 3 turn window to guarantee the GS before Athens pops the second GP at turn 58.
This also means we cannot build/finish any wonders or anything in Athens before such time as we pass 3*7 = 21 / 2 = 10 turns before Horico sends the GS flying => Before 45 turns from now (i.e. turn 235 or later)
Also we CANNOT get any Specialists in Athens, just about never, cause they generate not 2 gpp but 3: 21 /3 = 7 turns... just 7 turns... So mind Athens!
Presume we finish the lib first 80 hammers left / 6 per turn = 15 turns from now
Presume we start the Aquaduct 150 hammers / 6 + 5 (we work the Copper mine) 150 / 11 = 14 turns
Finaly we start Hanging Gardens (remember stone bonus) 450 - (88 * 2) Chops = 274 hammers left / (11 * 2) = 13 turns
So even without trying but beelining for HG it takes 15 + 14 + 13 = 42 turns only... so lets be carefull IF we deside to go after HG
Also is HG more valuable to us as a actuall wonder or we could build it untill maxed without finishing it and allow another civ to build it for the GOLD bonus.
Horico cannot sustain 2 scientists as it only has +3 food (where 4 is required)
It would either need Nottinghams Rice, meaning Nottingham cannot work the 7 GPT gold mine. (not an option we think)
If we run 2 scientists in Athens it needs to wait for the library and then ONLY have a chance at the GS and the GS really really helps we think.
So we come up with the following plan:
There is currently 38 food stored in Horico, this means we can run 2 scientists for 37 turns without starving.
For the second GP we need (300 GPP / 6 ) 50 turns of 2 scientists.
So we are -for the moment- 50 - 37 = 13 turns short of the mark for the GS. Now BEFORE (and this is real important) BEFORE Horico starves we need to earn us some more food. 13 turns at -1 food, so we require 13 food. 13 / 3 (food surplus in Horico/turn) = 5 turns.
So before starving Horico we need to run 5 more turns of "no scientists" to restok food.
All this means this takes a total of 37 + 5 + 13 = 55 turns giving us a small 3 turn window to guarantee the GS before Athens pops the second GP at turn 58.
This also means we cannot build/finish any wonders or anything in Athens before such time as we pass 3*7 = 21 / 2 = 10 turns before Horico sends the GS flying => Before 45 turns from now (i.e. turn 235 or later)
Also we CANNOT get any Specialists in Athens, just about never, cause they generate not 2 gpp but 3: 21 /3 = 7 turns... just 7 turns... So mind Athens!
Presume we finish the lib first 80 hammers left / 6 per turn = 15 turns from now
Presume we start the Aquaduct 150 hammers / 6 + 5 (we work the Copper mine) 150 / 11 = 14 turns
Finaly we start Hanging Gardens (remember stone bonus) 450 - (88 * 2) Chops = 274 hammers left / (11 * 2) = 13 turns
So even without trying but beelining for HG it takes 15 + 14 + 13 = 42 turns only... so lets be carefull IF we deside to go after HG
Also is HG more valuable to us as a actuall wonder or we could build it untill maxed without finishing it and allow another civ to build it for the GOLD bonus.
ChrisFromLux
former 'Misfit'
My turns are done ... nothing really special happened.
I switched Horico and York to a market, and London worked a cottage instead of the mine. It's worker also stopped cottaging the forest, and moved cottaging the grass W of London.
I didn't build a single military unit; except the WE London was building, before starting a market.
And 2 Scientists started their work in Horico ...
In research, running 100% for 2 turns was enough, because Corinth's units were moved back to Sparta, which considerably lowered our unit-costs!
Then 3 turns running 100
, and Iron Working was researched.
There are only 3 Iron on our Continent we can see so far (and there aren't many tiles left we haven't seen yet):
- there's Iron inside Hanni's new city's BFC (Kerkouane)
- there's Iron between Hastings and Athens, but outside both cities' BFC. This of course explains why Alex didn't settle on the Hastings-spot we wanted him to ...
- and the 3rd Iron ... well ... that's in the perfect spot:
I used maroWaker's WoodManII-Axe to cruise through MM's territory ... but he didn't find a single worker, or anything worth pillaging ... except the cow-pasture and its road; which he pillaged on the last turns, near Kumbi Saleh. The only improvements MM has left are cottages, and a farm or two near Timbuktu, I think. (But I didn't check Djenne ...)
Our Carthage-VPP checked on the Bronze and the Horses, but they weren't improved ???
The chariot between Athens and Utica checked on Utica's Horses 2 turn ago, and they aren't improved yet, but there are 2 workers sitting in Utica ... the chariot is waiting in striking-distance, outside Hanni's borders ...
During my turns, I didn't see any enemy-movement: no barbs, no AI-forces, no workers, nothing ...
And here's a view of some AI-cities:
And as my 'mission' was economic recovery, I can tell you that in the moment, we could run 40%, and get +2/turn. Here's a view of our finances:
During the next turnset:
- London will finish the market (5 turns)
- York is working the mine at the moment, waiting for a 2 cottages to finish (7 turns)
- Nottingham and Athens will finish their Libaries (1 turn)
- Athens will get a GP/GE (5 turns)
- Hastings will grow (1 turn), but the cow-pasture (4 turns) and the gold-mine (6 turns) aren't finished yet. But there are Cottages waiting to be worked ...
Finally, here are the logs, and the save:
I switched Horico and York to a market, and London worked a cottage instead of the mine. It's worker also stopped cottaging the forest, and moved cottaging the grass W of London.
I didn't build a single military unit; except the WE London was building, before starting a market.
And 2 Scientists started their work in Horico ...
In research, running 100%
for 2 turns was enough, because Corinth's units were moved back to Sparta, which considerably lowered our unit-costs!Then 3 turns running 100
, and Iron Working was researched.There are only 3 Iron on our Continent we can see so far (and there aren't many tiles left we haven't seen yet):
- there's Iron inside Hanni's new city's BFC (Kerkouane)
- there's Iron between Hastings and Athens, but outside both cities' BFC. This of course explains why Alex didn't settle on the Hastings-spot we wanted him to ...
- and the 3rd Iron ... well ... that's in the perfect spot:
Spoiler :
I used maroWaker's WoodManII-Axe to cruise through MM's territory ... but he didn't find a single worker, or anything worth pillaging ... except the cow-pasture and its road; which he pillaged on the last turns, near Kumbi Saleh. The only improvements MM has left are cottages, and a farm or two near Timbuktu, I think. (But I didn't check Djenne ...)
Spoiler :
Our Carthage-VPP checked on the Bronze and the Horses, but they weren't improved ???
The chariot between Athens and Utica checked on Utica's Horses 2 turn ago, and they aren't improved yet, but there are 2 workers sitting in Utica ... the chariot is waiting in striking-distance, outside Hanni's borders ...
During my turns, I didn't see any enemy-movement: no barbs, no AI-forces, no workers, nothing ...
And here's a view of some AI-cities:
Spoiler :
And as my 'mission' was economic recovery, I can tell you that in the moment, we could run 40%
, and get +2/turn. Here's a view of our finances:Spoiler :
During the next turnset:
- London will finish the market (5 turns)
- York is working the mine at the moment, waiting for a 2 cottages to finish (7 turns)
- Nottingham and Athens will finish their Libaries (1 turn)
- Athens will get a GP/GE (5 turns)
- Hastings will grow (1 turn), but the cow-pasture (4 turns) and the gold-mine (6 turns) aren't finished yet. But there are Cottages waiting to be worked ...
Finally, here are the logs, and the save:
Spoiler AutoLog :
Spoiler UploadLog :
ChrisFromLux
former 'Misfit'
I worked the Bronze once the borders popped (with Seafood, 2 Cottages and the Gold-Mine); this means the library is 1 turn from finishing ... and this also means we can build the granary before Athens grows again!
namliaM said:
Hmmm, in general, I quite like the HG.
In our case, this means 1 pop in 7 (or 8) cities = 7 more cottages (and 1 mine in A) we can work!
On the other hand, as we're going for a militaristic victory, a nearly finished Wonder could finance quite some units ...
namliaM
Deity
Ideal time to finish the granary is actually halfway growing, but heck...
Granary next seems like a good idea in Athens, also the Lib ASAP is a good idea... after that... Getting +5 more food (switching Copper => Fish) makes more sence, delaying the Granary but adding more food = faster growing = more cottages worked sooner.
That is the paradox we are dealing with... The one pop in every city (instantly) can really help +8 pop = 2 more units supported as well.
Plus all our cities are not even close to their Happy limit yet... So it is an option
On the save:
- London
Finish the Market and then swap the commerceless hill for the river cottage?
Changing the Hill to the river cottage NOW makes CoL 4 turns at 100% instead of 5)
And what should London build after the Market? Units/What units? Colloseum? Settler?
I think we can use a settler "pretty soon" to settle I.
- York
The worker easts of york is building a cottage, this needs to change to a farm! Otherwize York doesnt have enough food to work its tiles.
Or we can wait for CS, and farm a tile south of York (chained to the rice) but we need an additional farm there (or build a Windmill, but Farm + Cottage > Windmill I think)
- Sparta
This will need 4 farms if I counted correctly and has 1 cottage, 1 Ivory (and soon 1 Banana) pre-improved. I think we can steal one worker from there and help cut the jungles in A or York
- "City A"
Why start by mining a hill? I know we need the production there but generaly food>Hammers in early cities. Then the food (after 15 turns) will come from the fish. (See Athens!)
- Athens
Lib => Workboat => Granary would be a nice que?
Work the fish after the lib is finished and GROW, ATM it can grow 5 pop.
Adding Clams, Copper, Grass cottage (allready there), Grass Cottage (To be build on the opposite side of the water) and the Plains Cottage to be build due east.
- Worker gaurding Chariot
Will not work (I dont think so) because the Chariot is visible to Hannibal (from the same hill that we can see inside his borders.
General
- Research
Finaly we are gettings someplace. 50% at -7, once the market in London finishes: 50% at -3.
For now tho: Run 0% research two more turns then burn 100% for CoL then back to 0% again? What is our next research target after CoL? Below turncounts are based on 50% research rates.
Literature (18 turns for HE/NE/GL) <editted from 15 to 18 for including Polytheism>
Calander (8 turns for +2
and added commerce and food from the Bananananananas) obsoleets Stonehedge (no more free culture)Metal Casting (13 turns for Forge and +1
from the gold)Archery (2 turns for added MPs should we need them?)
CS (26 turns for burocacy, but no mor bulbing Astro!)
Monarchy (14 turns for the wine and added
also allows building of Temples and Monastaries should Christianity spread)- VPP Hannibal
Why are these units inside his borders? Special reason? If not remove them... as they are trigering unit builds from hannibal.
- Chopping forrests.
I think, in general, Courthouses will net more faster than Markets will. (EXCEPT probably London) Therefor I propose we preserve our forrests till we get CoL and finish improvements at that time.
So, i.e. The worker of Nottingham should work 3 more turns on the cottage there. Then stop and move to the west to start the cottage north of the rice. SE of the rice (see dotmap) I was thinking we chain irrigate to add an additional food to the Rice and allow Nottingham to work the second gold without going totaly stagnate.
But this is a case by case basis... Judge the saved costs of the city vs the gain of the market at 70% science (I know we are not there yet, but probably soon).
Nottingham (currently) makes 4 GPT at 70% science. And costs 5.3 gpt.
Market gain: 1gpt. Courthouse 2.6, easy choice
- GS's
Do we want to try and get 2 GS so we can bulb Astronomy? Or even 1? Bulbing Astronomy will allow us to get to other continents faster... but...
We must research to Optics first AND not research CS for burocracy
Roster (update) :
ChrisFromLux => Started to reform the Economy
Mastiff_of_Ar => Up for more economic reforms
ArcadicGamer => Waiting quietly on Deck
namliaM
marowaker
From now on I will link to The dotmap so everyone can find it easy like.
CNWJR => Out of this for a while, Unable to load the save
P.S. Maybe we should revise the Dotmap to keep Kerkouna?? If so how?
ChrisFromLux
former 'Misfit'
That is the paradox we are dealing with... The one pop in every city (instantly) can really help +8 pop = 2 more units supported as well.
Plus all our cities are not even close to their Happy limit yet... So it is an option
Of course, building HG also depends on what the others AI's are doing. They are probably expanding peacefully, trading techs and building wonders!?!
On the other hand, they don't seem to have stone, as Alex has build most wonders ...
But they should normally all have Mathematics since quite some time ...But now, I vote for building it, if we manage to! And take the money if the AI beats us ...
namliaM said:
I agree on that, because at the moment, we have enough units to take out Hannibal without problems and defend against MM ...
And we need every
we can get at the moment!namliaM said:
As said above, I would not build new units now. Building another settler now would also give a monument (= free culture) to the new cities, before they go obsolete with Calendar.
namliaM said:
Hmmm, with all these green, juicy tiles around York, as well as the rice, I didn't even think to check if they would need more food. But you're right, of course; we need 1 more food.
namliaM said:
Did you see that there's a worker farming below the GG and the settler?
If yes, than my explanation is that I'm mining the hill because it's the only other tile I was able to improve (except pre-clearing jungle, of course)
namliaM said:
namliaM said:
namliaM said:What is our next research target after CoL? Below turncounts are based on 50% research rates.
Literature (15 turns for HE/NE/GL)
Calander (8 turns for +2
Metal Casting (13 turns for Forge and +1
Archery (2 turns for added MPs should we need them?)
CS (26 turns for burocacy, but no mor bulbing Astro!)
Monarchy (14 turns for the wine and added
Literature = 18 turns! We also need Polytheism, which is 3 turns at 50%.
I think I prefer going for Literature first, if we get a GE in Athens. That way, he can build the GL. After that, I would go for Calendar, but watch the timing so that 2 new cities (A and I) pop their borders before monuments obsolete!?!
namliaM said:
Yes, I have a special reason
They were sitting 2S of Kerkouane, outside its borders. But on the last turn, the borders popped, so now, they are on their way to leave his territory ...
That's what we earn when running on 0% science for 11 turns
Sorry
. It won't happen again.namliaM
Deity
I editted my post to reflect both the 18 turns of Literature and the obsoletion of Monuments/stonehedge with Calander.
All the turncounts btw are 1:1 copied from the Techtree. So we may be able to shave a turn off here or there.
If we do go Lit => Calander and do not want to delay to much any research, this is 2 for gold gathering + 4 to research CoL + 18 Lit + 8 Calander = 32 turns to Calander, leaving us with 17 turns to get A and I started.
Any other cities we want/need/must/must not settle before obsoleting Stonehedge?
E and G seem to be to swamped with MM culture atm to be settled.
The fish/Cow/Horse/Wine city up north may be an option, tho we need to remove the Barbs first and it should get a Lib anyways. With 5 surplus food from the fish + cow it can work 4 grass cottages and 5 additional Plains cottages, should turn out to be a pretty nice city... with the ability to switch to working the Hill (mine?) for extra hammers.
We can also chose to not pasture the Horses, but cottage them instead ...
B and D do we want to settle them at all? Both their cost should be relatively minimal, but their gains shouldnt be to much either. D could be like a Shipyard.... maybe... Once we get CS and chainfarming.
B can work like 3 cottages and the fish and Cow... Dont know if it is worth the settler.
ChrisFromLux
former 'Misfit'
'A' must pop its borders before Calendar, as we'll never build a library there!
'I' doesn't need the free border pop, as it will build a library anyway, but of course, no need to not use the free culture.
But beside these 2 cities, I think we don't need any other cities before Calendar:
- 'E' and 'G' can be built when we have taken MM's capital, and his culture is gone, as you pointed out.
- 'B' could be a good choice later, as it will produce quite some commerce, and not cost much maintenance. But we should not build it before meeting this western AI first ... No need for him to build more units earlier.
- 'D' ... hmmm ... poor city that needs a lot of farming, but then, we could use it to produce some ships. But definitely no need to build it now.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
I've got it, and will play after my coffee! At least a few turns.
I agree, here. That would make the Athens que:
Lib => Workboat => Granary => HG
If we get it, great... if not, $$$$.
I think we'll need a couple more cats to finish the job. These units can come from London while swapping with a settler (For city I). Once that settler is done, we make enough units to take down (and keep) Timbuktu. I think our economy will be much better by then (And have gold from killing Hanny cities), and will allow us to expand into the area where MM culture is now preventing it.
I think we need to replace any cats we lose taking Hannibal. I still think clearing the continent is imperative. I think I can take out one or (maybe) two, but not all three. Now, MM is going to want to fill that gap we leave by razing, so I really want him soon after.
I started the worker on a farm. I'll send the one north of York down to help him. They can team up to clear and build in the area. Then head for A...
I'm going to settle A, right? Can I name it something? Mastiffville?
I get bored with their names.
But, where is the GG headed? City A (Masttown)? It will be a fine production city...
Here's what I have so far:
- I'm going 2 turns zero research, then 100% to CoL. I think we're agreed there.
- I'm leaving Horico alone... I trust you guys know exactly what you're going with the GPs.
- Found A (I'll wait on the word for the GG) Clear and build after clearing (farms and mines).
- Slaughter and raze Korkouane - then head to Carthage. IMPORTANT: He can reach some islands now, and if we let him get off the continent, he'll be harder to kill.
Question: Do we leave Utica? It's where we are planning City K. It'll be after my turn for sure, but something to ponder.
If I get a few answers, I can easily finish up this morning.
EDIT: Does everyone realize we're 2 turns from a GP in Athens?! It's either an GE or a GP.
Of course, building HG also depends on what the others AI's are doing. They are probably expanding peacefully, trading techs and building wonders!?!
On the other hand, they don't seem to have stone, as Alex has build most wonders ...
But now, I vote for building it, if we manage to! And take the money if the AI beats us ...
I agree, here. That would make the Athens que:
Lib => Workboat => Granary => HG
If we get it, great... if not, $$$$.
I agree on that, because at the moment, we have enough units to take out Hannibal without problems and defend against MM ...
And we need every
I think we'll need a couple more cats to finish the job. These units can come from London while swapping with a settler (For city I). Once that settler is done, we make enough units to take down (and keep) Timbuktu. I think our economy will be much better by then (And have gold from killing Hanny cities), and will allow us to expand into the area where MM culture is now preventing it.
I think we need to replace any cats we lose taking Hannibal. I still think clearing the continent is imperative. I think I can take out one or (maybe) two, but not all three. Now, MM is going to want to fill that gap we leave by razing, so I really want him soon after.
Hmmm, with all these green, juicy tiles around York, as well as the rice, I didn't even think to check if they would need more food. But you're right, of course; we need 1 more food.
I started the worker on a farm. I'll send the one north of York down to help him. They can team up to clear and build in the area. Then head for A...
Did you see that there's a worker farming below the GG and the settler?
If yes, than my explanation is that I'm mining the hill because it's the only other tile I was able to improve (except pre-clearing jungle, of course)
I'm going to settle A, right? Can I name it something? Mastiffville?
I get bored with their names.But, where is the GG headed? City A (Masttown)? It will be a fine production city...
Here's what I have so far:
- I'm going 2 turns zero research, then 100% to CoL. I think we're agreed there.
- I'm leaving Horico alone... I trust you guys know exactly what you're going with the GPs.
- Found A (I'll wait on the word for the GG) Clear and build after clearing (farms and mines).
- Slaughter and raze Korkouane - then head to Carthage. IMPORTANT: He can reach some islands now, and if we let him get off the continent, he'll be harder to kill.
Question: Do we leave Utica? It's where we are planning City K. It'll be after my turn for sure, but something to ponder.
If I get a few answers, I can easily finish up this morning.
EDIT: Does everyone realize we're 2 turns from a GP in Athens?! It's either an GE or a GP.
namliaM
Deity
Dont forget the Aquaduct.
I agree... But I would not mind keeping Hannibal or MM around for a while longer. They can spring us a Great priest/Shrine hopefully, that would REALLY help a lot.
The longer we keep either around without them doing much/any damage to us, they can grow them cottages and pop Great people. Wouldnt it be nice to take Timbuktu with Shrine and Acadamy in place??
Name it anything you want, Masstown sound funny enough for a Mass unit production facility.I'm going to settle A, right? Can I name it something? Mastiffville?
But, where is the GG headed? City A (Masttown)? It will be a fine production city...
The GG is to be settled (I think) into "City A"
Just make sure to go 1 turn 0% to let those 2 libs finish. After research CoL the important thing is to shut down research, I for one am not completely clear on what our next research goal is.
Check and make sure it will not starve!
Settle the GG in city A, is my vote.
Like I said, I dont know about going after any AI atm... we are about to get CoL and Courthouses allround (inluding London even if for only 1 gpt).
Going out to slaughter anything will (once again) break our still fragile Economy, granted war booty can be nice...
But unless we have immediat reasons to capture/keep/raze anything (like Athens) I dont see a reason we cannot keep them AIs around a little longer if only to grow those cottages for us.
Offcourse we want to keep (as much as possible) hannibal without resources, but to raze that lovely holy city in a perfect spot...
It will atleast have some building surviving our raid and for the moment we
1) Cannot keep it
2) Cannot (imho) push our economy again to go on walkabout with our army
3) Have London churning out units again, while it can build a Courthouse.
Carthage could be a nice place to the the FP but we have to be able to build it first.
While we are holding for CoL Nottingham can get a workboat out to see why Goth is out there. This workboat we maybe can use for "MassVille" instead of the workboat from Athens, saving 45 hammers in Athens which turn into 90 hammers on the HG.
That workboat is a 12 turn build tho... and needs some 15-20 turns travel to get to "MassVille" so the workboat from Athens I think is still needed.
Buildque for Massville: Granary > Lighthouse > Courthouse? > Barracks > HE
Also we need to balance farms vs Workshops there...
To clearcut "MassVille" and get it started I would probably get the (gold mining) worker from Hastings and the idle worker from Sparta to join in the chopping fun. We need the two workers at York I think, lots of cottaging still to do there.
Dont know about farming the current tile tho, we can add a farm later with CS. It is a shame to waste worker turns there... tho a farm earlier will help it grow... faster = more cottages worked earlier = more commerce... So I guess the farm there is better than the Cottage.
namliaM
Deity
Yes...
The GE we want to save for The Great Lib (if we get a chance) I think.
GP, I dont know what to do with him. Bulbing will get us something like Priesthood or something... So that is no good.
Either keep him for a shrine someplace or settle him in like London for a hammer and 5 gpt.... but we can deside this after the set... I think.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
After four turns:
Things look pretty good. We'll have CoL in 3 turns with gold left over, The workers are doing their thing... I made one worker error (IMO), I sent the one building the pasture south of Hastings towards Masttown (Yeah, I did it!
), when he should have gone one SW and started another cottage for Athens. He'll be there doing that in the next turnset.
Also:
The troops will arrive at Carthage in three turns. I should have it burning and ready for capture or razing by the end of my turn.
Then:
Woo Hoo! Great Library anyone?! I lost a chariot scouting too close to Utica But, if that's the worst that happens, maybe we can live with it?
Finally, if anyone wants to add an "east" section of our dotmap, here's what our WoodyAxe found:
I'm going to stop for a little bit... any responses or comments are welcome!
Things look pretty good. We'll have CoL in 3 turns with gold left over, The workers are doing their thing... I made one worker error (IMO), I sent the one building the pasture south of Hastings towards Masttown (Yeah, I did it!
), when he should have gone one SW and started another cottage for Athens. He'll be there doing that in the next turnset.Also:
The troops will arrive at Carthage in three turns. I should have it burning and ready for capture or razing by the end of my turn.
Then:
Woo Hoo! Great Library anyone?! I lost a chariot scouting too close to Utica
But, if that's the worst that happens, maybe we can live with it? Finally, if anyone wants to add an "east" section of our dotmap, here's what our WoodyAxe found:
I'm going to stop for a little bit... any responses or comments are welcome!
namliaM
Deity
GE = Good we probably want to save him for the great lib.
I still dont know about razing Carthage... Taking it later with a shrine could really help
I still dont know about razing Carthage... Taking it later with a shrine could really help
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Dont forget the Aquaduct.
I agree... But I would not mind keeping Hannibal or MM around for a while longer. They can spring us a Great priest/Shrine hopefully, that would REALLY help a lot.
The longer we keep either around without them doing much/any damage to us, they can grow them cottages and pop Great people. Wouldnt it be nice to take Timbuktu with Shrine and Acadamy in place??
Name it anything you want, Masstown sound funny enough for a Mass unit production facility.
Aquaduct - Check. That'll all be after me, actually. The workboat is about done, (2 turns) I don't see a reason to stop it now. Might want to hold off on the granary... it's going to grow to max VERY quickly. We can probably whip it...
Yep. Got it.
I'm good with the GG in Masttown (I used "mast" because it's an ocean city that will probably build lots of ships...
)Like I said, I dont know about going after any AI atm... we are about to get CoL and Courthouses allround (inluding London even if for only 1 gpt).
Going out to slaughter anything will (once again) break our still fragile Economy, granted war booty can be nice...
But unless we have immediat reasons to capture/keep/raze anything (like Athens) I dont see a reason we cannot keep them AIs around a little longer if only to grow those cottages for us.
Offcourse we want to keep (as much as possible) hannibal without resources, but to raze that lovely holy city in a perfect spot...
It will atleast have some building surviving our raid and for the moment we
1) Cannot keep it
2) Cannot (imho) push our economy again to go on walkabout with our army
3) Have London churning out units again, while it can build a Courthouse.
Carthage could be a nice place to the the FP but we have to be able to build it first.
Should I turn the army toward Dejeanne? I'd like to knock out another one before heading them back...
But, Carthage is only working one cottage, and if their workers do anything, it'll be hooking up horses and bronze. Right now we'd run 30% with +3g and 40% with -8g. Taking Carthage would mean a couple more workers, some decent gold, and no more threat. If we leave Utica, we can watch for a settler... or we can just do him in.
With no wonders, do you think Hanny is going to get a GP? I doubt he has many buildings to take. We've been hitting him pretty hard, and he's been making settlers.
If anyone will build us stuff, it'll be MM. We just need to keep him away from the resources... If we keep a couple patrols out, we can kill his settlers, too.
Just my thoughts. I'll wait a bit to see what the team wants to do.
I started Nottingham on a market, but I can build a quick workboat...
I started the barracks in Mast... I figured it would be producing war units along with London sooner than later. It's only 4 hammers in, so easy enough to switch!
Aside from a road, the workers at Masttown are busily clearing, farming and mining!
namliaM
Deity
Granary first in Masttown will allow it to grow faster = more hammers sooner = more units
AI generate lots of GP from running i.e. Priests, actually pillaging his high return tiles makes the chance of him running a priest higher cause it is better to work the priest than the land tile... Offcourse if he get a priest... its the question of what he does with it.
I would HATE to destroy Carthage, if only because of its "perfect" location... If we wait till we get a few courthouses allround and can build the FP (which is not all that far away I dont think). In which case we can keep Carthage and settle the cities around it pretty quickly due to the FP in Carthage.... without to much of a hit to our Economy... or do we want to put the FP elsewhere??
With just Carthage and Utica IMHO Hannibal is allready not a real threat... I worry more about MM but Going after Skirmishers on hills inside cities = no fun while we have only Axemen...
On whipping the Granary ... I would rather build the granary and whip after completing it, much faster regrowing... So instead of building the Aquaduct, whipping the Granary... reversing that would be much better IMHO.
AI generate lots of GP from running i.e. Priests, actually pillaging his high return tiles makes the chance of him running a priest higher cause it is better to work the priest than the land tile... Offcourse if he get a priest... its the question of what he does with it.
I would HATE to destroy Carthage, if only because of its "perfect" location... If we wait till we get a few courthouses allround and can build the FP (which is not all that far away I dont think). In which case we can keep Carthage and settle the cities around it pretty quickly due to the FP in Carthage.... without to much of a hit to our Economy... or do we want to put the FP elsewhere??
With just Carthage and Utica IMHO Hannibal is allready not a real threat... I worry more about MM but Going after Skirmishers on hills inside cities = no fun while we have only Axemen...
On whipping the Granary ... I would rather build the granary and whip after completing it, much faster regrowing... So instead of building the Aquaduct, whipping the Granary... reversing that would be much better IMHO.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Granary first in Masttown will allow it to grow faster = more hammers sooner = more units
AI generate lots of GP from running i.e. Priests, actually pillaging his high return tiles makes the chance of him running a priest higher cause it is better to work the priest than the land tile... Offcourse if he get a priest... its the question of what he does with it.
I switched it to granary, easy enough...
I have no idea how the AI decide what to do with GPs. I know then tend to go for golden ages, but they also love shrines.
I guess the question is how long are we going to wait... as much as it hurts, the longer he's around, the longer he has to build units, too. I think it's a great place for the FP, though.
Oh, and I sure don't want him settling off the continent...
I can make a left turn and check out MM before I send the army home. I'd like to see the odds on a WE versus a skirmisher.
EDIT: Seems MM built walls, too. The WE with C1 was about 15%. I'm going to back the army to Sparta and wait. I may go after Utica, though. We're really going to need to build cats and WEs and bum rush MM soon, though. He's going to keep expanding, and I don't want him getting longbows.
Someone will need to send a VPP down to Carthage in the next set.
Not a problem. I'll start it after the workboat.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Okay... turnset done and uploaded.
Hmmm... an archer and settler. Surely they won't keep coming... they do! Well, it's a new worker for us!
A look at Timbuktu while we pass by:
And oddly, a skirmisher showed up near Utica, then entered the city. I pulled back, since the odds would be against taking the city (and we may not have wanted to raze it anyway.), but now it is headed towards Sparta:
The WE and axe are waiting for our next settler party. I expect MM will go for that iron very soon.
Here's the HOF log:
And the other log:
Now Mansa is Hindu - Jewish, and he switched. Just a note.
Research is at 0%, but we get poly in 10 turns anyway. Then 7 turns (Alpha first) to Lit at 100%. It should change as we have 2 markets that will be finished by then.
EDIT: Oh, we now have CoL, so we can go to Caste System if we want, and it's time to build lots of courthouses!
Roster (update) :
ChrisFromLux => Economy reform
Mastiff_of_Ar => More economic reforms / Razed a city
ArcadicGamer => Quietly UP!
namliaM => On deck... thankfully, never quiet!
marowaker => In the hole... (Baseball term)
Hmmm... an archer and settler. Surely they won't keep coming... they do! Well, it's a new worker for us!
A look at Timbuktu while we pass by:
And oddly, a skirmisher showed up near Utica, then entered the city. I pulled back, since the odds would be against taking the city (and we may not have wanted to raze it anyway.), but now it is headed towards Sparta:
The WE and axe are waiting for our next settler party. I expect MM will go for that iron very soon.
Here's the HOF log:
Spoiler :
And the other log:
Spoiler :
Now Mansa is Hindu - Jewish, and he switched. Just a note.
Research is at 0%, but we get poly in 10 turns anyway. Then 7 turns (Alpha first) to Lit at 100%. It should change as we have 2 markets that will be finished by then.
EDIT: Oh, we now have CoL, so we can go to Caste System if we want, and it's time to build lots of courthouses!
Roster (update) :
ChrisFromLux => Economy reform
Mastiff_of_Ar => More economic reforms / Razed a city
ArcadicGamer => Quietly UP!
namliaM => On deck... thankfully, never quiet!
marowaker => In the hole... (Baseball term)
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Sticky
- Sticky
