SGOTM 06 - Misfits

ArcadicGamer · Feb 28, 2008

I'm in the same boat as Nam here, using 2 ships and 6 units to start killing the islands simultaniously will end this sooner. 5 CR5 grens and maybe a bombard treb if it has a bit of small culture defense. Hell 6 grens should be enough for any island city. Build 1-2 galleons out of Carthage, send some troops to athens to board, go southernly, built 1-2 galleons outta mast, send units there to go northernly, and start whiping out those islands. Bonus is that once they are clear they can easily join the main force and have some nice promotions along with it, and maybe even help birth another GG we can use.

As for the GG we got now, i'd say CR3 Leader Pikeman. We have 2 medics in each stack already, (medic 1 WE in each i think, plus the explorers are enroute) however we will take more damage with our unpromoted maces than with our grens.

With an estimated 15 cities left on the mainland, i think more ships can be used to attack on another front, say coming out of Carthage towards the East and working the way inland towards our other 2 stacks. Possibly @ Khursan. Newly promoted Grens and a few bombard promoted trebs can easily start moving inland from there. 3 Galleons worth should easily get a good start on that.

namliaM · Feb 29, 2008

ChrisFromLux said:
Well, if you did the calculations, then OK. I continued on producing Maces in Masttown, because it simply build a Mace every turn. No turn where it didn't produce one ... of course, that won't go on forever; somewhere, there will be 1 turn without one, but it also saves us 45/turn ...

But if you're sure we won't run out of Money, then OK ... switch it to Pikes ...

No I am not, but currently we are making >300gpt and if we start running out of money we can allways insert a few Grens

No upgrade cost at all...

CfL said:
Are we sure we need that long-term goal ... if we merge our 3 troops, get the reinforcements we already have to the front, we should start rolling faster through their cities, if we kamikaze enough Siege units ...

Yes... but... the lands you drop the units is 2 turns by boat one way = 4 turns total. To deliver 3 units/boat

If we drop them "closest" on the AI continent (just SW of coventry)
It is one turn by boat, 3 turns to move to the same spot.
So the units do arrive 2 turns later (to start out with) but...
Turn - Your way - My way
00 Boat leaves
01 0 - L
02 S - 1
03 0 - 2 L
04 0 - S 1
05 0 - L 2
06 S - 1 S
07 0 - 2 L
08 0 - S 1
09 0 - L 2
10 S - 1 S

L = Landing my spot
S = Landing/arriving your spot.

Your way has 3 successfull trips = 9 units.
My way generates 4 successfull trips to "S" with 3 more underway

The first 3 units are 2 turns late arriving but that difference is made up fast...
<I hope I did the math right

this early in the morning>

CfL said:
I agree on that. I just kept producing Cats/Trebs everywhere, except in thos cities with Instructors, but now I think we have really enough of them. So we could switch the most productive cities to Pikes?!?
But why produce Grens in those cities, instead of upgrading Pikes?

Because as you said upgrading does cost money and I would rather upgrade CR3 Pikes > Grens and build C2 Grens for protection than the other way around...

CfL said:
Of course, WW for Ragnar keeps going. But if there's no action, it doesn't get worse. Ragnar seems to only have island cities left, So no fighting at the moment = no more WW.
Of course, killing him would eliminate his portion of the WW. On the other hand, our cities are quite happy at the moment. Only 2 with -1 ...

I only see 1 and 5 cities on their limits...

CfL said:
I agree on that ... preferably, 4 CR3-Grens, and no city shall stand a chance! I would use new units from home to do that though, and keep the units on their continent rolling, no?!?

We can do it anyway we like... but IMHO we should do it... because hunting down island cities is a pain...

ArcadicGamer said:
I'm in the same boat as Nam here, using 2 ships and 6 units to start killing the islands simultaniously will end this sooner. 5 CR5 grens and maybe a bombard treb if it has a bit of small culture defense. Hell 6 grens should be enough for any island city. Build 1-2 galleons out of Carthage, send some troops to athens to board, go southernly, built 1-2 galleons outta mast, send units there to go northernly, and start whiping out those islands. Bonus is that once they are clear they can easily join the main force and have some nice promotions along with it, and maybe even help birth another GG we can use.

Why build ships out of Carthage tho? Atleast the 2 Ragnar cities are closer to our west coast than that east coast and they are IMHO the most important as they kill off Ragnar.

AG said:
As for the GG we got now, i'd say CR3 Leader Pikeman. We have 2 medics in each stack already, (medic 1 WE in each i think, plus the explorers are enroute) however we will take more damage with our unpromoted maces than with our grens. [/qoute]
Thats the way I thought... but a Super medic will heal our wounded on average 1 turn faster over the Medic 2 we have now around...
We dont really need any super attacker at this point but healing our troops one turn faster will allow us to attack cities 1 turn faster/city = 1 turn faster victory.

We dont need any new medic we can just promote one of the Explorers we have now. Since they allready move 2 they dont need the morale and since they are weak they will never defend unless in worst case scenario's.
They only need 4 xp more to get the Medic 3 promo, so we can promote 4 grens together with the Explorer to distribute the 20xp among them... to create C1 CR3 Grens (or offcourse C4 Grens) and a Super medic.

With an estimated 15 cities left on the mainland,

Click to expand...

how many ? 15 looks about right yes... that I dont think we can get in 20 turns??

AG said:

i think more ships can be used to attack on another front, say coming out of Carthage towards the East and working the way inland towards our other 2 stacks. Possibly @ Khursan. Newly promoted Grens and a few bombard promoted trebs can easily start moving inland from there. 3 Galleons worth should easily get a good start on that.

Click to expand...

That is a long trip to make... some 30-ish tiles = 5 turn trip... I dont think that is a good idea...

I think it is more usefull if we keep the Coventry "line" going and have 2 stacks moving one way.... rather than start a new -smaller- stack that might be picked off by waves of Camel archers, we know that Saladin is packing quite a few of those.

ChrisFromLux · Feb 29, 2008

ArcadicGamer said:
I'm in the same boat as Nam here, using 2 ships and 6 units to start killing the islands simultaniously will end this sooner. 5 CR5 grens and maybe a bombard treb if it has a bit of small culture defense. Hell 6 grens should be enough for any island city. Build 1-2 galleons out of Carthage, send some troops to athens to board, go southernly, built 1-2 galleons outta mast, send units there to go northernly, and start whiping out those islands. Bonus is that once they are clear they can easily join the main force and have some nice promotions along with it, and maybe even help birth another GG we can use.

OK, let's take those islands down. But I still wouldn't build more than 3 ships; 2 in Masttown, 1 in Carthage. That's the maximum for me; taking a 4th ship we already have.
As for their units, I would also go for 5 CR3-Grens and 1 Bombard-Treb ...

ArcadicGamer said:
As for the GG we got now, i'd say CR3 Leader Pikeman. We have 2 medics in each stack already, (medic 1 WE in each i think, plus the explorers are enroute)

Not really ... we have 2 Medics in 1 stack (Explorer and WE), but 'only' 1 Medic in the other. The explorers have arrived, btw.

As for what to do with the GG ... I don't know ... as I said before, I always like to have a Super-Medic in my attack-stacks, if I go for a longer war, as he will heal most units in 1 or 2 turns. On the other hand, I don't consider this a long war anymore. With all the units we have already, we should have no problems with injured units healing near the ruins of a razed city, while non-injured units keep moving to the next city. That's why I said it may be to late to fully use a Super-Medic, and we could in fact go for another attacker ...

ArcadicGamer · Feb 29, 2008

i particuraly like nam's suggesting of grouping 4grens and a explorer together to boost the explorer to med3 and giving the other c1. We can also attach it to a mace already super-promoted to lead the gren charge, as 1 gren any stack will help against any attacker and can easily win most city raids.

I'm now thinking 6 grens for an island city should be enough on their own, CR3 is enough to lower any island city's defense bonus to negligable portions, rag's going to have combat 1 on bows and muskets, but thats it. This party should move away from the coast, for fog/island busting.

Roads are still avalible in the razed territory, so dropping them off sooner is better. They can also spot resettlers on the fly, vs being possibly caught off guard later in the game by a resettled city.

ChrisFromLux · Feb 29, 2008

namliaM said:
No I am not, but currently we are making >300gpt and if we start running out of money we can allways insert a few Grens No upgrade cost at all...

OK, that is true, of course.

namliaM said:
Your way has 3 successfull trips = 9 units.
My way generates 4 successfull trips to "S" with 3 more underway

The first 3 units are 2 turns late arriving but that difference is made up fast...
<I hope I did the math right this early in the morning>

Yes, indeed, your math seems right ... a bit hard to read, a few letters I don't understand, but all in all, it seems right

But: that is only true if that hill a few tiles W of your landing location has been roaded. This means that if we don't get a worker from a razed city on the first turns, we have to ship one over, I think. I haven't done the math for it, though :mischief:

namliaM said:
Because as you said upgrading does cost money and I would rather upgrade CR3 Pikes > Grens and build C2 Grens for protection than the other way around...

Ah, OK, that's what you meant. Well, in that case, I completely agree!

namliaM said:
I only see 1 and 5 cities on their limits...

Well, then you're probably right. I didn't check in-game before posting, but posted what I thought I had in mind from my last turns, and that was 2 cities ...
Maybe, there's a traveling unit in that city now, which gives it +1

And what we shouldn't forget either: I have whipped some 3 or 4 cities during my set (London, Athens, ...). That +1 :mad:

-effect should also go away in ~5 turns ...

namliaM said:
We dont need any new medic we can just promote one of the Explorers we have now. Since they allready move 2 they dont need the morale and since they are weak they will never defend unless in worst case scenario's.
They only need 4 xp more to get the Medic 3 promo, so we can promote 4 grens together with the Explorer to distribute the 20xp among them... to create C1 CR3 Grens (or offcourse C4 Grens) and a Super medic.

Now, as AG does, I also very much like that idea. Much better than creating a new (useless) Doc, take one we already have :goodjob:

ArcadicGamer said:
Roads are still avalible in the razed territory, so dropping them off sooner is better. They can also spot resettlers on the fly, vs being possibly caught off guard later in the game by a resettled city.

As I said above, I agree. This 'spott-settlers-and-kill-them-on-the-way-to the-front'-idea is also good :goodjob:

But as I (and namliaM first) said, in this case, there's a road missing!
BTW, I wonder where that road went to. And suppose we didn't pillage it :crazyeye:

namliaM · Feb 29, 2008

CfL said:
But: that is only true if the hill is roaded

No…
1 Land
2 Move to hill
3 move off hill
4 Move to S

CfL said:
I have whipped some cities

Don’t be scared to use the whip… whip away… and hard!
I might even be tempted to whip a Stock Exchange if it is a REALY high commerce city.
Also, we seem to be building units all over at the moment. Are we sure every city has a barracks and/or Buddism?

I think we pillaged the road someplace… cannot imagine it not being there ever…

We must watch a little the number of catapults/trebs, we have many of them already and building more… What we need more tho are some stack protectors (i.e. C2 or better Grens). If / When those Camel archers start coming after our poor CR3 Macemen without more protection they WILL be Camel food.

Therefore I suggest swapping/whipping in Grens in “lesser” cities anyway…. They take a while to build too in a 10 hammer city

Mastiff_of_Ar · Feb 29, 2008

Okay, got the save and checked it out...

If you want the double explorer medic move, I suggest we meet them up rught after Persopolis falls. They are both headed that way and the GG can meet them near there.

Why no frigates? Man, I'd have had all the defenses down to zero by now. None at all? One or two could be useful, no?

We could have steel in 11 turns. Would cannons finish faster?

Just a little more info and I'll play it. Why are so many teams not playing? Is it possible they're done?!

namliaM · Mar 1, 2008

We can use a frigate or two for island bombing... We have MORE than enough cats/trebs (building/to be build) to bring down any defense of any city... except for island cities => A few frigates (out of Athens/Masttown?) will help sure...

I dont know about the need for Cannons... Remember 11 turns is during the Golden Age we are currently enjoying. With CR3 Grens we dont really need Cannons do we? And 11 turns of research is quite some Pike => Gren upgrades (or XBow => Gren upgrades)

I dont find it impossible that some teams have finished allready, pre-1000ad is the target surely...
CRC, Smurks and Xteam may well have finished.... Murky and OSS are still running I would guess....

ChrisFromLux · Mar 1, 2008

Frigates? I don't know ... if they have 1-tile-island-cities, frigates can really be helpful to take defenses down, before we would have to do an amphibious attack. But we haven't seen any 1-tile-cities yet, so 4 Grens and 2 Trebs should be enough to take down their 20%, maybe 40% defense and raze the city 1 turn after landing ...?!?

Do we want a 2 Super-Docs? Are we sure we can keep 2 armies running. If yes, than it's clearly faster, but having 1 army with 1 Super-Doc, uninjured units can keep rolling, while the Doc heals the injured ones, who will catch up when the next city has been razed ...

And I don't think Cannons are worth it ... I agree with namliaM here: keep research down, get the money and upgrade the cheaper units ...
We have so many Siege Weapons, they are enough, without Cannons ...

Mastiff_of_Ar · Mar 1, 2008

It seems to me we easily have enough units to have two stacks healing at the same time...

Okay, no cannons or frigs, I was just tossing it out there.

namliaM · Mar 1, 2008

I dont know about the frigates, they can be good for 2 things...
1) Bombarding any island cities (No need to take along any Cats/Trebs) => Maybe make due with 3 CR3 Grens? Or bring 6?

2) Making sure Cyrus doesnt get smart with his galleons

Cannons I really dont think we need... and not even THAT many (more) catapults/trebs... Moreso do we need some C2 (handbuild? => not in London/Athens/Masttown) Grens for stack protection against those nasty Camel Archers.

A second great healer? Sure IF/when we get another general?? Or do we want to add the second Explorer to the "5-man-upgrade"-stack?

ChrisFromLux · Mar 1, 2008

namliaM said:
1) Bombarding any island cities (No need to take along any Cats/Trebs) => Maybe make due with 3 CR3 Grens? Or bring 6?

Hmm, I would still bring 4 or 5, with 1 or 2 Trebs to take down most of their (expected) 20% defense?!? No need for Frigates here, I think ...

namliaM said:
2) Making sure Cyrus doesnt get smart with his galleons

I don't see what he could do with galleons. Land some units on our continent? Then we can still use the units we produce every turn to kill them off. And we should be able to spot them already on their way ... so we could prepare and keep some units at home, instead of shipping them to the front.
And even if we don't spot him, and he manages to land his units near a defenseless city ... I don't even worry about him razing a city; we don't need all the cities we have!

namliaM said:
Cannons I really dont think we need... and not even THAT many (more) catapults/trebs... Moreso do we need some C2 (handbuild? => not in London/Athens/Masttown) Grens for stack protection against those nasty Camel Archers.

Here, I agree again. As I already said before, I also think we have more than enough Siege Weapons ...

namliaM said:
A second great healer? Sure IF/when we get another general?? Or do we want to add the second Explorer to the "5-man-upgrade"-stack?

I think MoA thought about taking both Explorer into the 5-man-upgrade-group ... I think that's not a bad idea! In fact, I prefer to have a 2nd Super-Doc, instead of having another C1-promotable CR3-Gren ... that CR3-Gren can earn his promotion, instead of getting it for free! :ar15:

namliaM · Mar 2, 2008

The Roster
ArcadicGamer
ChrisFromLux
Mastiff_of_Ar => Are you about ready to play?
namliaM => On deck
marowaker => Set your alarm clock to be sure.

Mastiff_of_Ar · Mar 3, 2008

namliaM said:
Mastiff_of_Ar => Are you about ready to play?

Yeah, I'm finally back at work, but I was really not up for it before toady. I should be good to go tonight.

MF

namliaM · Mar 3, 2008

MF?

------------
10 char limit
=========

Mastiff_of_Ar · Mar 4, 2008

namliaM said:
MF?

Yeah... That's how I sign other stuff. It's the initials on the collar I use for my girls. Long story, you probably don't want to know. :eek:

I am halfway through my set! Coming back to work after missing most of last week has been awful. I got two turns in last night before I was called away, and three more in this morning when I got up at 5:00 a.m. So I'll finish tonight, upload it, and post pics and fun stuff. Sorry it's taking so long, but I didn't want to skip and then come back after Nam or Maro... just didn't seem fair to get take the kill shot!

Things of note:

- Persepolis has fallen.

- I found a nice southern 1-turn route. It needs some roads, though, and workers are headed over. It'll end up saving 3-4 turns!

- Cyrus does have a one tile island, and at the same time, two of his galleons were headed for our shores. So, despite saying I wouldn't, I quickly build three frigates. His galleons have been sunk, and they are headed to the west coast of the CySal continent for bombarding. He also has another multi-tile island city south of the one tile island.

- A unit died to a camel. I've matched up the two main armies with a pike, and I have more coming and some unpromoted grens, but we need to be careful...

- Sal has more cities than we thought, I believe. But we'll know more soon. Cyrus is now his vassal for some reason. :rolleyes:

- I didn't do so well with the GG. It turns out (according to the book) the units on the tile all get stuck together. So, making two supermedics was out. Then, I made the stack with a knight, pike, and explorer. but, for some reason, the :health:

isn't available! Why? No idea. I was going to give the pike an extra move so all three could move X2... but I thought maybe the explorer couldn't get the supermed, so I try the pike. Same thing... No idea what's wrong, but I made a mess of it. Mea Culpa. :sad:

Guess that's why I never attach them to units. :blush:

Other than that, so far... so good.

Mastiff_of_Ar · Mar 5, 2008

Crazy text limit...

The autolog:

Spoiler :

Mastiff_of_Ar · Mar 5, 2008

Okay! It's up! I think I did okay... I'll work on some pics hopefully, but I'm just beat. Here's 1/2 the log:

Spoiler :

Mastiff_of_Ar · Mar 5, 2008

Second half!

Spoiler :

!

ChrisFromLux · Mar 5, 2008

Mastiff_of_Ar said:
Okay! It's up! I think I did okay...

Judging only from the logs, it looks good.

5 cities razed, not that many units lost :goodjob:

On the other hand (I can't access the save, as I'm at work :mischief:

), why did you build that many Knights (13)?
And we don't have any Stables, have we? Why not build Grens instead?

SGOTM 06 - Misfits

Warlord

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Warlord

former 'Misfit'

Deity

In his Element

Deity

former 'Misfit'

In his Element

Deity

former 'Misfit'

Deity

In his Element

Deity

In his Element

In his Element

In his Element

In his Element

former 'Misfit'

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