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SGOTM 07 - Murky Waters

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Super Moderator Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    28,632
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
    Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 7 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

    The team lists are at the end of this post.

    The Game
    You are Qin Shi Huang, the great Chinese leader. You find yourself on a tiny world, surrounded by all the other vanilla civs. You can only build or own a single city, and the difficulty level is .... Deity!

    The Objective
    This Deity OCC game is on a Tiny map, at Normal speed, against 17 rivals. All victory conditions are enabled, and the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the earliest victory date in the game.

    Versions
    This game will be played in Civilization IV version 1.74, and using the latest vanilla HOF Mod.

    Windows players need the HOF Mod at: HOF-1.74.002.
    Windows players who have not installed BtS 3.13 will need to swap their vanilla CvGameCoreDLL.dll file so that their Civ4 installation is compatible with copies that have the BtS installation. Download the new DLL zip file here. The enclosed Readme file gives details for the installation.

    Mac players are in a separate team as the HoF Mod cannot be made to work cross-platform. They will use Civ4 for Mac version 1.74, and HOF-Mac-1.74.002.

    Schedule
    Start files for each team will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of April 24.

    Please try to complete this game within three months of the start date.

    Starting Position
    Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.


    Map Parameters
    Playable Leader/Civ - Qin Shi Huang of China.
    Characteristics - Industrious and Financial, starts with Agriculture and Mining
    Unique Unit - Cho-Ku-Nu (Crossbowman)
    Rivals - All of them
    World size - Tiny
    Difficulty - Deity
    Landform - Continents
    Environment - Temperate climate, low sea level
    Game Speed - Normal
    AI Aggression - Normal
    Barbarians - Normal
    Permanent Alliances - Enabled
    City Razing - Enabled. China auto-razes to enforce OCC.

    Notes
    • Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
    • Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher. The laurels will be presented to the three teams who achieve victories in the fewest turns.
    • All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.
    • Do NOT view any other team threads until you have submitted your last save - win, lose or retire.
    • Do NOT download any other team's save.
    Enjoy your game, and please be nice to each other :D
     
  2. Erkon

    Erkon Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,910
    Location:
    Malmö, Sweden
    Welcome everyone to

    SGOTM7 – Team Murky Waters

    This time around, we shall have more fun, learn even more and perform better than ever! I have a feeling that the diplomatic part of this game will be much more intense than in SGOTM6 :crazyeye:. Welcome to FiveAces who has joined us as a regular player and morpheus11 who has joined as an official lurker*. :clap: I've adjusted/improved/clarified the house rules a bit (highlighted in blue). You are free/encouraged to comment as usual :D

    The following rules apply to all players in the Murky Waters SGOTM7 team (including morpheus11 when applicable :p )​

    Ensure that you have read and understood the rules below and those provided by the administrators (C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread)** and follow any ongoing discussion at the SGOTM 07 Maintenance Thread

    The next player shall post a ”got it” within 48 hours of the upload of the previous game. Else the next available player has the right to post the ”got it”. These rules replaces guideline 6 and 7 in the C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread. To ensure a smooth handover, please post the ”got it” within 36 hours. The rest of the team needs the in between 12 hours to solve who's next. It is mandatory to wait at least 12 hours after the "got it" before you play, and it's recommended to wait at least 24 hours after the ”got it” before you play. Else, the difference in time zones and busy work days may prevent players to post useful advice. If you for some reason have to "unget it", please post within 24 after the "got it" if possible. We aim to play two turn sets / week.

    Before you start playing, please post a short plan for your turn set (aka Pre-Play-Plan), including the following topics: builds, military activity per theatre, tile improvements, research, civic switches, diplomatic actions and miscellaneously. Also describe the intent. You don't need to write a novel. A sentence or two for each topic will suffice. This will hopefully enable each player to feel more engagement. It is not intended to replace the incredible amount of interference advice from the rest of us :lol: The PPP-template can be found here Something I noticed from last game was that it was hard to keep track of updates/duplicates of the PPP. Please use the same post and mark updates with different color. When you report from a turn set, please use one post (I know - I'm the biggest sinner :hide:). This will make it much easier for me to assemble the event post below.

    We will use mid-turnset uploads during intense turn sets. If you are playing while other are online, please upload and the rest of us can review the save (typically an hour review period). In addition/complement to that, a player shall break after move of starting warrior, initial city settlement, writing discovered, alpha discovered, or something really exciting/unexpected happens, such as anyone declares on us :faint:. I don't want us to be too strict and pause for minor stuff, because that will have a negative impact on the flow of play for the player. It is important that everyone in the team feels they have the mandate to take decisions when we encounter opportunities without having to ask for advice. One example would be tech trade with AIs that we have agreed on to trade with.

    No-one is forced to play a turn set. You don’t need to announce the reason for skipping a turn set. Any players can swap turn sets if they announce the swap in time. Since the captain has a memory capacity of a demented gold fish, I urge you to make it clear when you intend to skip a turn. Please post as quick as possible to reduce unnecessary confusion and delays.

    Please use smilies and emotes in your posts as much as possible. Jokes, humor, sarcasm and offensive language can and will be misinterpreted. Remember that written text is a poor method to convey feelings. Several of us are not native to the English language (LC for example use American English). The differences in culture is also a source for misunderstanding. If you get upset by a post, please wait a few hours before you respond. With this in mind I would like to encourage all and everyone to trash talk to your hearts content, particularly when Gnejs (aka Mr UN) screws up.

    Don’t be afraid to post things that may appear stupid or evident. Each player have strengths and weaknesses. There are numerous examples in the SGOTM4/5/6 threads when the most simple rule has been unknown to several of us (such as the difference between peace treaty and cease fire). Don’t be afraid that other members will think you are stupid. As a captain, I am obliged to post the most stupid questions to ensure that the rest of the team appear brighter.

    Issues where we cannot reach consensus is resolved by the active player. If you run into a situation where you need advice, please upload the save and let the rest of us take a look. Or post a quick request for advice. It’s better to delay the game a day than build the Globe Theatre in the wrong city :blush: Don’t be afraid making mistakes though. We all screw up once in a while (some of us more often than others though :shifty: )

    Don’t promote units until they are close to action (unless the promotion increases movement). If you are unsure of suitable promotions, don’t hesitate to bring that up for discussion. We all have very different experiences from promotions, for example barrage/CR for cats, and combat vs other promotions.

    Don’t play intoxicated (from alcohol, drugs or smoke). Don’t play when you are too tired. Or when you have your kids/wife screaming at you :lol:

    Try to keep track of the diplomatic events each turn, and visit each city regularly the capital each turn. It’s mandatory to check cities that grow or have a border expansion. Remember that the number of happy people will change due to changes in war weariness (WW), gained/lost resources etc. Keep track of specialists. We don’t want to unnecessarily pollute the great person pool. Please respect LC’s micro management plans. We brought him to tears last game when we whipped a city on the wrong turn :cry: .

    Ensure that you have the autosave settings to 1. Please contact AlanH if your game crashes, even if you can repeat all your moves. Read this post for details.

    If you PM the team, please ensure everyone one receives a copy. Remember that a lot of players read what we post. Don't be rude or disrespectful to any player not on our team.

    Try to run a test game or two before we start. Your experience may either confirm or contradict some one else's, and is therefore valuable.

    The goal for Team Murky Waters is to end among the top three teams. The ambition is to grab the silver laurel and the vision is to win defend the gold :trophy:.

    This is the motto of the Captain: "We have an ambition to perform well and of course we want to win the gold laurel. We also want to have fun while playing and we want to learn more. It's more important to me to have fun than win the gold, and I think that it's the same for most players."

    If you play with a non-english version of the game (yes, I'm thinking of you jesusin :lol:), please provide a translation to English of the event log.

    Don't forget to enable all HOF settings in case you lost them during a dual-install or whatever reason. And set the first-turn-setting to first turn = 0. This will reduce future confusion. EDIT2: Set MaxAutoSaves in CivilizationIV.ini to a value greater than the length of your turn set.

    When you state the turn/year research is completed (or any other event), please use the turn/year that is stated by the event log. Research for example is completed at the end of a turn. The pop up thus shows the turn after the tech is learned.

    EDIT 1: Make a note of the turn we and another AI start having a common war and note the turn that the AI declares peace, so we can know when we've gotten to 40 turns of common war.

    EDIT 3: Especially early on, we need to monitor our neighbors' attitudes about DoWing people and see if it changes to: "We have enough on our hands now." Maybe give us advance notice about needing archery

    When the game is over, and the staff has confirmed it's over, you are free to read other team threads. When their game is over, and the staff has confirmed it, you are free to post in their threads as well.

    Ok, if you have bothered to read this far, you are eligible to either a) ignore this crap or b) provide valuable comments (please email me at captain.murky_waters@dev.null)

    BTW, I am considering to update the motto for this SGOTM to be: "Remember that your turn set is the most important in the game, so don't screw up!". Anyone against? :rolleyes:

    * An Official Lurker is a team member who is allowed to post in this thread while its progressing and can also download the save, but does not participate in the decisions in the game, and does not play any turn sets. The Official Lurker will therefore not receive any potential laurel or spoon:cry:. The same restriction applies to an official lurker as playing members, such as not viewing other teams threads, and not performing irreversible actions in the save. An Official Lurker is encouraged to ask questions when he/she wants to learn about the reasoning of the team, or game rules etc.

    ** Guidelines 5-7 does not apply to our game. You are free to upload before the end of your last turn. You can "get it" without first opening the save.
     
  3. Erkon

    Erkon Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,910
    Location:
    Malmö, Sweden
    Turn Set Summaries, Game Events & Reports

    Domination Victory
    1170 AD

    Pre-game discussions
    klarius' tech value chart (vital knowledge to understand our thread in general and specifically tech trade)

    4000 BC - 3600 BC - 3200 BC (Gnejs' PPP, page 1-18). Settle in place. Trial games with pyramids gives Communism at 640 AD. We decide to stick to early alpha plan and forfeit the Pyramids, because we prefer to have an early influence on the AI via tech gifting/trading. Meet Asoka, Tokugawa, Washington, Elizabeth, Huyana Capac. Learned Fishing, Hunting and Animal Husbandry.

    3200 BC - 2640 BC (LC's PPP, page 18-23). Build scout, meet Isabella, Frederick, and Alexander. Learn Writing.

    2640 BC - 2200 BC (FiveAces' PPP, page 23-28). Meet Kublai Khan and Julius Caesar. Build Library and work boat and learn the Alphabet. Trade for Mysticism and The Wheel.

    2200 BC - 2160 BC - 1800 BC (jesusin's PPP, page 28-48). After endless discussions we decided to start the Big War with multiple DoWs the same turn, instead of a staggered approach: We, KK, Fred and Alex DoW HC (man, he got a surprise! <grin>), we also DoW Toku. KK captures Tiwanaku. Trade for Masonry, BW, Pottery, IW, Polytheism, Meditation.

    1800 BC - 1400 BC (klarius's PPP, page 28-51). Build Great Library. Alex and Fred make peace with HC. Sailing and Drama learned. Merit Ptah (GS) born, Hinduism spread, grow to pop 7.

    1400 BC - 1000 BC (Erkon's PPP, page 51-60). Bribe Asoka and Fred on Toku and JC on HC. Revolt to Slavery and Pacifism. Nabu-rimanni (GS aka Erkon the Great) born, grow to pop10. Math, Philosophy (lightbulb), Priesthood learned. Peace with HC since he has units on our doorsteps*. Asoka captures Kyoto.

    1000 BC - 750 BC (Gnejs's PPP, page 60-76). Construct Academy. Bribe Fred on HC, Asoka, KK and us on Fred. Capture Fred worker. Build girlie stuff. KK captures Berlin.

    750 BC - 500 BC (LC's PPP, page 76-85). Revolt to Bureau + Hereditary Rule. JC captures Cuzco. Zu Chongzhi (GS) born. Civil Service, Construction, Currency, Paper learned. Around this time we decide to complete a build each turn, a divine revelation by LC.**

    500 BC - 250 BC (FiveAces' PPP, page 85-109). Izzy DoW us. Spread Hinduism to KK to convert him. KK peace with Fred. We, JC and KK DoW on Alex. Asoka peace with Fred. KK captures Sparta. Metal Casting, Calendar, Archery, Monotheism, Machinery, Compass, Education learned. Build list (nine turns): Forge, Harbor, Heroic Epic, Cat, Cat, Cat, University, Oxford University, Cat

    250 BC - 1 AD (jesusin's PPP, page 109-123). Send Caravel to Far Side and meet the Others. We and KK DoW JC. Peace with Fred. Optics, Feudalism, Engineering, Liberalism, Astronomy, Printing Press learned.

    1 AD - 250 AD (klarius' PPP, page 123-131). Great Artist born. Revolt to Free Religion. Washington DoW JC, Alex and Isa. Elizabeth DoW JC, Alex and Isa. Oops, we did it again! Theology, Horseback Riding, Music learned. KK captures Antium.

    250 AD - 475 AD (Gnejs' PPP, page 131 - 140). We and KK peace with JC. KK DoW Isa. We, Hattie, Mansa DoW Montezuma. Why? Why not?! Washington culture bombs. KK captures Madrid. Scientific Methods and Guilds learned.

    475 AD - 640 AD (LC's PPP, page 140 - 155). Short story: We bring Asoka into our war against Fred and Asoka captures Hamburg. LC is full of HATRED. Long story: Permanent Alliance with KK. Peace Monty. Revolt to State Property and Theocracy. Liz captures Cuzco. Liz and W DoP JC. We bring Asoka into our war against Fred and Asoka captures Hamburg. LC is full of HATRED. Communism, Chemistry, Banking learned.

    640 AD - 820 AD (FiveAces' PPP, page 156 - 165). Bribe Liz to peace Alex. Bribe Cathy to DoW Hattie. KK captures Athens, Hamburg & Kyoto. Steel learned.

    820 AD - 1010 AD (Erkon's PPP, page 165 - 174). DoW Liz. KK captures Bombay, Delhi, York & Cuzco. KK lands 11 units SE of London. Nationalism learned.

    1010 AD - 1110 AD (jesusin's PPP, page 174 - 181). DoW Washington. KK captures London, Washington & New York. DoW JC. Biology & Economics learned.

    1110 AD - 1170 AD (klarius' PPP, page 182 - 183). Raze Nottingham and Rome. Rifling learned. Everyone DoW Sal. Then win with 41.4% pop (Sal 16.7%) and 51.08% (283 tiles) land. You can't win much closer than that!

    klarius korner (not complete and will probably never be...)

    Link to SGOTM6 Summary, including klarius korner 6

    Tech progress:
    Code:
    3800 BC - [B]Fishing[/B]
    2560 BC - [B]Hunting[/B]
    3240 BC - [B]AH[/B]
    2880 BC - [B]Writing[/B]
    2240 BC - [B]Alpha[/B]
    2200 BC - The Wheel
    2200 BC - Mysticism
    2200 BC - Masonry
    2160 BC - BW
    2160 BC - Pottery
    2120 BC - IW
    2000 BC - Polytheism
    2000 BC - Meditation
    1760 BC - [B]Literature[/B]
    1480 BC - Sailing
    1440 BC - [B]Drama[/B]
    1400 BC - Math
    1400 BC - [B]Philosophy[/B] from GS
    1280 BC - [B]Priesthood[/B]
     975 BC - [B]Code of Laws[/B]
     850 BC - Monarchy
     725 BC - [B]Civil Service[/B] (partly self learned)
     725 BC - Construction
     700 BC - Currency
     575 BC - [B]Paper[/B]
     500 BC - Metal Casting
     475 BC - Calendar
     475 BC - Archery
     475 BC - Monotheism
     475 BC - Machinery
     475 BC - Compass
     400 BC - [B]Education[/B] (partly bulbed)
     250 BC - Optics
     200 BC - Feudalism
     200 BC - Engineering
     200 BC - [B]Liberalism[/B]
     175 BC - [B]Astronomy[/B]
      25 BC - [B]Printing Press[/B]
       1 AD - Theology
       1 AD - Horseback Riding
     125 AD - Music
     250 AD - [B]Scientific Methods[/B]
     375 AD - Guilds
     500 AD - [B]Communism[/B]
     520 AD - [B]Chemistry[/B] (from PA bug)
     540 AD - Banking
     720 AD - [B]Steel[/B]
    * This event lead to us introducing Break Conditions in our PPP, in addition to the previously added Sequence bullet.
    ** The most important limitation for an OCC game is that you can never produce more than one item per turn, regardless of overflow. We thus sacrificed beakers and food sometime to ensure we always completed the build in one turn, sometimes from chop-whip.
     
  4. Erkon

    Erkon Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,910
    Location:
    Malmö, Sweden
    Game Info

    Roster

    Gnejs - 15 turns
    LC - 12 turns
    FiveAces - 10 turns
    jesusin - 10 turns
    klarius - 10 turns
    Mitiu - 10 turns
    Erkon - 10 turns

    Rules for Permanent Alliance (PA)
    Spoiler :
    We can have one and only one partner
    Neither we nor the partner can break the PA
    We tell the partner what the partner shall research
    If we DoW, the partner will DoW as well
    The relationship from other AI will be the average of said AIs relation to us and out partner
    It will take 40 turns of mutual war against a third AI before a PA can be signed
    OR
    It will take 40 turns of Defensive Pact with an AI before a PA can be signed
    OR
    Shared war and DP count together, but DP counter is decremented while you are at war, so you can top of shared war by a DP, but not the other way around.
    Our GP can be used in the partner cities only by settling them as superspecialists.
    (Any other use requieres our gifting the GP and hoping the AI will know what to do with them.)
    PA research:
    There is only one bucket for tech progress per team per tech. Both PA partners put their beakers into these buckets. That's independent of difficulty level.
    If a PA is formed the beaker cost of the techs change (you can see this change in the tech screen). There is a penalty of a factor of 1.5 for 2 partners.
    But the difficulty level factor changes to the value of the average of difficulties of the 2 partners :
    floor((deity+noble)/2) = monarch.
    So in the end we have 1.15*1.5 instead of 1.3 factor.​
    Rules of One City Challenge (OOC)
    Spoiler :
    We can not settle a second city
    Any city we capture will be auto-razed
    We can build more than two National Wonders in our capital
    We can build Globe Theatre, Oxford University and Ironworks in our Capital
    Pre-game test-gamesTurn vs Date list
    Spoiler :
    Turn Year
    ..0 .4000 BC
    ..1 .3960 BC
    ..2 .3920 BC
    ..3 .3880 BC
    ..4 .3840 BC
    ..5 .3800 BC
    ..6 .3760 BC
    ..7 .3720 BC
    ..8 .3680 BC
    ..9 .3640 BC
    .10 .3600 BC
    .11 .3560 BC
    .12 .3520 BC
    .13 .3480 BC
    .14 .3440 BC
    .15 .3400 BC
    .16 .3360 BC
    .17 .3320 BC
    .18 .3280 BC
    .19 .3240 BC
    .20 .3200 BC
    .21 .3160 BC
    .22 .3120 BC
    .23 .3080 BC
    .24 .3040 BC
    .25 .3000 BC
    .26 .2960 BC
    .27 .2920 BC
    .28 .2880 BC
    .29 .2840 BC
    .30 .2800 BC
    .31 .2760 BC
    .32 .2720 BC
    .33 .2680 BC
    .34 .2640 BC
    .35 .2600 BC
    .36 .2560 BC
    .37 .2520 BC
    .38 .2480 BC
    .39 .2440 BC
    .40 .2400 BC
    .41 .2360 BC
    .42 .2320 BC
    .43 .2280 BC
    .44 .2240 BC
    .45 .2200 BC
    .46 .2160 BC
    .47 .2120 BC
    .48 .2080 BC
    .49 .2040 BC
    .50 .2000 BC
    .51 .1960 BC
    .52 .1920 BC
    .53 .1880 BC
    .54 .1840 BC
    .55 .1800 BC
    .56 .1760 BC
    .57 .1720 BC
    .58 .1680 BC
    .59 .1640 BC
    .60 .1600 BC
    .61 .1560 BC
    .62 .1520 BC
    .63 .1480 BC
    .64 .1440 BC
    .65 .1400 BC
    .66 .1360 BC
    .67 .1320 BC
    .68 .1280 BC
    .69 .1240 BC
    .70 .1200 BC
    .71 .1160 BC
    .72 .1120 BC
    .73 .1080 BC
    .74 .1040 BC
    .75 .1000 BC
    .76 . 975 BC
    .77 . 950 BC
    .78 . 925 BC
    .79 . 900 BC
    .80 . 875 BC
    .81 . 850 BC
    .82 . 825 BC
    .83 . 800 BC
    .84 . 775 BC
    .85 . 750 BC
    .86 . 725 BC
    .87 . 700 BC
    .88 . 675 BC
    .89 . 650 BC
    .90 . 625 BC
    .91 . 600 BC
    .92 . 575 BC
    .93 . 550 BC
    .94 . 525 BC
    .95 . 500 BC
    .96 . 475 BC
    .97 . 450 BC
    .98 . 425 BC
    .99 . 400 BC
    100 . 375 BC
    101 . 350 BC
    102 . 325 BC
    103 . 300 BC
    104 . 275 BC
    105 . 250 BC
    106 . 225 BC
    107 . 200 BC
    108 . 175 BC
    109 . 150 BC
    110 . 125 BC
    111 . 100 BC
    112 . .75 BC
    113 . .50 BC
    114 . .25 BC
    115 . . 1 AD
    116 . .25 AD
    117 . .50 AD
    118 . .75 AD
    119 . 100 AD
    120 . 125 AD
    121 . 150 AD
    122 . 175 AD
    123 . 200 AD
    124 . 225 AD
    125 . 250 AD
    126 . 275 AD
    127 . 300 AD
    128 . 325 AD
    129 . 350 AD
    130 . 375 AD
    131 . 400 AD
    132 . 425 AD
    133 . 450 AD
    134 . 475 AD
    135 . 500 AD
    136 . 520 AD
    137 . 540 AD
    138 . 560 AD
    139 . 580 AD
    140 . 600 AD
    141 . 620 AD
    142 . 640 AD
    143 . 660 AD
    144 . 680 AD
    145 . 700 AD
    146 . 720 AD
    147 . 740 AD
    148 . 760 AD
    149 . 780 AD
    150 . 800 AD
    151 . 820 AD
    152 . 840 AD
    153 . 860 AD
    154 . 880 AD
    155 . 900 AD
    156 . 920 AD
    157 . 940 AD
    158 . 960 AD
    159 . 980 AD
    160 .1000 AD
    161 .1010 AD
    162 .1020 AD
    163 .1030 AD
    164 .1040 AD
    165 .1050 AD
    166 .1060 AD
    167 .1070 AD
    168 .1080 AD
    169 .1090 AD
    170 .1100 AD
    171 .1110 AD
    172 .1120 AD
    173 .1130 AD
    174 .1140 AD
    175 .1150 AD
    176 .1160 AD
    177 .1170 AD
    178 .1180 AD
    179 .1190 AD
    180 .1200 AD
    181 .1210 AD
    182 .1220 AD
    183 .1230 AD
    184 .1240 AD
    185 .1250 AD
    186 .1260 AD
    187 .1270 AD
    188 .1280 AD
    189 .1290 AD
    190 .1300 AD
    191 .1310 AD
    192 .1320 AD
    193 .1330 AD
    194 .1340 AD
    195 .1350 AD
    196 .1360 AD
    197 .1370 AD
    198 .1380 AD
    199 .1390 AD
    200 .1400 AD
    201 .1410 AD
    202 .1420 AD
    203 .1430 AD
    204 .1440 AD
    205 .1450 AD
    206 .1460 AD
    207 .1470 AD
    208 .1480 AD
    209 .1490 AD
    210 .1500 AD
    211 .1505 AD
    212 .1510 AD
    213 .1515 AD
    214 .1520 AD
    215 .1525 AD
    216 .1530 AD
    217 .1535 AD
    218 .1540 AD
    219 .1545 AD
    220 .1550 AD
    221 .1555 AD
    222 .1560 AD
    223 .1565 AD
    224 .1570 AD
    225 .1575 AD
    226 .1580 AD
    227 .1585 AD
    228 .1590 AD
    229 .1595 AD
    230 .1600 AD
    231 .1605 AD
    232 .1610 AD
    233 .1615 AD
    234 .1620 AD
    235 .1625 AD
    236 .1630 AD
    237 .1635 AD
    238 .1640 AD
    239 .1645 AD
    240 .1650 AD
    241 .1655 AD
    242 .1660 AD
    243 .1665 AD
    244 .1670 AD
    245 .1675 AD
    246 .1680 AD
    247 .1685 AD
    248 .1690 AD
    249 .1695 AD
    250 .1700 AD
    251 .1705 AD
    252 .1710 AD
    253 .1715 AD
    254 .1720 AD
    255 .1725 AD
    256 .1730 AD
    257 .1735 AD
    258 .1740 AD
    259 .1745 AD
    260 .1750 AD
    261 .1755 AD
    262 .1760 AD
    263 .1765 AD
    264 .1770 AD
    265 .1775 AD
    266 .1780 AD
    267 .1785 AD
    268 .1790 AD
    269 .1795 AD
    270 .1800 AD
     
  5. Erkon

    Erkon Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,910
    Location:
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  6. Erkon

    Erkon Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

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    Apr 12, 2008, 08:55 PM
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    Apr 16, 2008, 02:27 PM - Also 1500ad domination with klarius 450ad save
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    Apr 16, 2008, 11:13 PM - 1320ad domination with klarius 450ad save
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  7. Gnejs

    Gnejs Chieftain

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    Checking in. Hi team! :)
     
  8. klarius

    klarius ... !

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    Checking in

    The defenses are in fact the same in Vanilla and Warlords.
    2 defenders + 1 for capital + 1 for every 9 population.
    If the others move out is a question of if they have another job to do. There is the difference between vanilla and warlords as the units will not be as likely to go on suicide missions in warlords.

    Being in danger (doesn't matter if it's one warrior or 1000 modern armor) will keep 1-2 more units in the town unless they can directly attack,
     
  9. Mîtiu Ioan

    Mîtiu Ioan Chieftain

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    Checking in ! :)

    One curiosity : is Cultural Victory possible in OCC game ???
     
  10. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Chieftain

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    Yeehawww!!! This is going to be fun.

    Mîtiu, are you already back or are you still going on you vacation?

    Thanks for assembling our pms, Erkon, now we just someone to summarize them...

    EDIT: @klarius: Couple of questions. 1. Do you know the mechanics of when an AI is willing to be bribed to DoW and what price they're willing to accept? 2. How did you manage to get Hatty to DoW Monty (or did you bribe Monty to DoW Hatty)? Did you manipulate their relations in advance? Did you do your tech trading to have a certain amount of techs to give to Hatty? Did you pick Hatty because she's creative and was at the top of the score charts? (Or was it just blind luck that Hatty was willing to DoW? ;)) When I attempted your save, Hatty was cautious with Monty when I did the AH...Alpha bee-line.
     
  11. klarius

    klarius ... !

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    I bribed Hatty, Mansa and Freddy, but gave up on the latter two, when I saw that they weren't getting any nice empires.
    Cyrus, Gandhi and Washington need to be friendly before you can bribe them. That's too late, except somebody declares on them.

    Edit:
    Note Hatty and Freddy need to be pleased with you and annoyed with the target to accept.
    Mansa will do it at cautious/cautious.
     
  12. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Chieftain

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    Okay, so we'll have to wait and see which AIs we get (if any). What about the cost of bribing DoW? Any way we can determine that in advance?
     
  13. morpheus11

    morpheus11 Chieftain

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    Checking in.

    Good Luck everyone. I might not have much to say, but I will always be watching :cool:
     
  14. klarius

    klarius ... !

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    In fact yes. But I don't have the formula with me.
    There's nevertheless the problem what's the value of our techs (they might have partially researched).
    My way was to just trade for techs with the people I don't want to bribe mainly and hope I have then enough. Worked well enough on this map. :)
     
  15. klarius

    klarius ... !

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    Ok, the value of a DoW is:

    (50+game_turn + 8*no_enemy_cities) * ((enemy_power+100)/(power+100)) * attitude_fac

    attitude_fac= 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4 for
    furious .. friendly

    3 times the value if the target is not a "land_target"=8 adjacent tiles
    6 times the value if we are not at war with them

    So an example:
    Turn 100 Hatty is annoyed with Monte who has 2 cities and about the same power.

    (50+100+2*8)*1*1.5 = 254
     
  16. LowtherCastle

    LowtherCastle Chieftain

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    Value in beakers?
     
  17. klarius

    klarius ... !

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    This is the value in gold. All trades are evaluated in a gold equivalent.

    The value of techs is a whole other can of worms, but the value of remaining beakers is generally higher than the corresponding sum in gold.
     
  18. Gnejs

    Gnejs Chieftain

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    klarius, how very interesting! Is it 6*254 = 1524 if we are not at war with Monty? If that is the case then we should declare war ourselves first. Nothing for the faint-hearted though... :eek:

    Btw, doesn't the attitude towards us matter? What about those "we just don't like you enough", is that just because the cost is steeper than what we can afford?

    What about the dog-piling? In my test games I first couldn't make an AI declare war, but once I got another AI to DoW on the target the first AI was suddenly willing to join in, often for a very low price.
     
  19. klarius

    klarius ... !

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    Sure we have to declare first.
    That's really no problem early in the game when the AI is not prepared.
    I never saw an AI unit in our land in the test games.

    The attitude towards us doesn't matter for the cost.
    The AIs have different thresholds when they will make an alliance at all. No money will make them declare if they don't have this attitude. This ranges from cautious to friendly. If you don't have this they will tell you they don't like you enough.
    They can also refuse if the target is too powerful. Then they say they have nothing to gain. This can be helped by others at war with the AI as they take into account all partners in the power calculation.
    They can also refuse when they have already a war or are planning one. Then they have enough at their hands.
     
  20. Erkon

    Erkon Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

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    I've made a test map but have not yet played it. Please report any errors and I will correct them tomorrow.
     

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