SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

[BLubmuz]

We're all here, if Culdeus wants to join, he's welcome.

Let's start the discussion!

I propose to move the scout on the blue circle.
Surely i will not settle in place, quick or not.
We can probably revolt to Police state, it's a good bonus for producing units and we lose nothing if we revolt on turn 0 and settle on turn 1.
PS can be also a good relation boost, being the favourite civic of some AI.

We must try to settle on a riverside, for the Levee, precious on a SR.
So maybe we can settle 1S or 1SE, unless gold or similar will be revealed and keep the food-rich location North for a 2nd city, even with some overlap.

You can see ice in the far NE, so we can probably be on the extreme N of a continent.
Settling S is better for the Distance-from-palace, if we can put a good GP farm N.

Last thing: since our tradition to let begin the newest player brought us a Wooden spoon in 7 games, i suggest to break it: Sweeta closed SG8, he can open SG9.

It's quick speed, so i propose 8 FULL turns for the beginning, to be reduced to 6 after the first round, or even before, say after 4 TSs. This way we can better discuss and better MM our workers and cities.

How is the test game set-up?
Found this in Maintenance thread, i guess you must use it for the test game.
If GB desn't arrive soon with his test game, i can make one.

 

[berserks01]

I prefer moving the scout 2S1E or 2S1W. It'd give us a clearer picture of where to settle exactly.

Though I like 1S better since we won't waste 2 (or more) coastal tiles without a lighthouse.

 

[berserks01]

.....
Found this in Maintenance thread, i guess you must use it for the test game.
If GB desn't arrive soon with his test game, i can make one.

Sounds like raging barbs to me, but I could be wrong.

 

[Sweetacshon]

I'd imagine that the blue circle in the north means that there's more food off the coast, and as Blubmuz said, we can leave for a worker /settler pump then GP farm. I agree with settling the capital south, which means we should move the scout south to aid the decision. 2s1e would be interesting, but if we want to settle on the river, 2s1w would be the go, imo.

 

[BLubmuz]

If we point S for settle Athens, then probably you're right to move the scout S.
Usually is better to have the capital on the coast, so he can go E of the river: if this reveals a coastal site we can settle there, otherwise 1S of where the settler is.
Remember, we know RP, so we can start with lumbermills, and riverside they give +1H+1G, if placed on a straight river.

No, i do not think we'll have raging barbs.
Just, if they learn rifling we can face barbs rifles: better fogbust, and well.

Sure like hell we'll go for the Oracle, but this time i think we'll take rifling.
We don't need to research CoL and Math, so we can go straight there.
The capital seems not a great place, so we can self research CS, or use a GPro for it.

But let's try some test.

 

[Simon_c]

I was originally going to say settle on the coast and send the scout NW,W. I guess I've got a bit to learn on long term city site planning

So, of we're settling south, then I guess the scout should go S,S

it looks like SE,SE of the settler is a hill with a forest so sending the scout SE on the 2nd turn may be useful.

Although, that will put the scount and the settler on the same square at the end of turn 0.

My thoughts on the techs:

Fascism: As has been said, we should be able to go into Police State on turn 0

Scientific Method: no Great Library. No Parthenon. We will know where the oil is though.

Physics: This opens up all the tech path above physics (once we have the rate to deal with it) We can train airships out of the door (with the )

Medicine: We can get Sushi as soon as we have corps, so plan for a GM somewhere ? This and SciMethod mean we can build the national park out of the door too. So the GP farm could be in the middle of a preserved forest.

Flight: Means airports are available and then airlifting units around early on.

Machinery: Crosbows are available as soon as we have archery and iron. Could be useful if we get the early enough.

Replaceable Parts: It means watermills and windmills will be good early on. Still need gunpowder/chemistry before we can unlock levies or rifles.

Superconductors: I guess it's one less to get, and we cna build thrusters early.


So, to me the only early military advantage I see is crossbows for city/stack defence.

We might be able to get Guilds from the Oracle, and tech gunpowder before getting Liberalism to pop Rifling.


I wonder what the tech list will do the the GP pop list. Let me look at that.

 

[Mesix]

My thought is that there will be a lof of opportunity to tech trade. With all of the extra techs gifted to the players, there will be a lot of techs available to be researched. It will be interesting to see how the AI deals with the extra techs. We should probably play a few test games to try it out.

 

[BLubmuz]

Interesting point.
How can the AI deal with that bunch of modern techs?
They can try to research some unaffordable mid-age or modern tech and stuck in it.

I was wrong about rifling, i forget you need GP first.

IMHO we must start like a normal game, and try to get the best out of this strange set-up.
Also, remember that modern units require a lot of hammers, and when you build them you got forges, pop 10 cities and so on.
It would be nice to see the AI build Airships and not archers: too easy rush them.
They can build Xbows only if they have iron: but without IW...

Thursters? without Apollo? ehehehehhhh
But we can build labs early... just after Astro, since Observatories are needed.
But labs are very expensives, and without factories...

Yes, wonders like GLib, Parthenon and ToA are already obsolete.
I guess important wonders are MoM, Pyramids, Taj. Not to mention the Oracle.

Too much to discuss, we desperately need some test.
Question: do PS applies to settlers/workers? usually you don't care about this, but it can be important.

 

[berserks01]

My thought is that there will be a lof of opportunity to tech trade. With all of the extra techs gifted to the players, there will be a lot of techs available to be researched. It will be interesting to see how the AI deals with the extra techs. We should probably play a few test games to try it out.

Excellent point! We need to see where the AI concentrate their research so we can go a different route and increase our tech rate with trades.

The test games becomes more crucial to test this out.

 

[greatbeyond]

Here is the first test game. I used all the settings given and Pangea for a map type. The only type of map I didn't even consider was Fantasy Realm as the screen shot is too ordinary to be FR. Perhaps if anyone has any ideas of other types to try, they can be the next test.

I just used random Civs unless we want some specific ones. When the actual Save file is released, I can do a much better job with the map by fog gazing. As soon as we meet any AIs I can edit them into the worldbuilder file.

Each Civ has been edited in the Worldbuilder file to give them the advanced techs, as Gyathaar discussed.

I hope i got the starting area right.

Remember, the Dike will give a bonus if built on a river OR coast

I just went back into the save and edited out some incense near the starting point that got left in, and have reattached the new save.

 

[Sweetacshon]

GB, nice one, as always. Hopefully I'll have a chance to have a crack tonight.

 

[BLubmuz]

Thanks GB, i dl the save, i'll give a try in 12 hours.
The Dike is Netherland's UB, it replaces the Levee, which can be built only riverside by all the other civs.

So you varied the techs in text mode, not using WB itself?

 

[Mesix]

I tried out a test game from GB save file and it didn't go very well. Quick speed can be difficult. I built a stack of Phalanx units and took the nearrest capital (Inca). That was all she wrote for my military conquest and I quickly got boxed in with only 2 cities.

When we play this game, the Oracle is a must. We can get late game techs with the Oracle and Liberalism.

There seemed to be a lot of barbarians early, but they were just warriors and archers. On quick speed, the map fills up fast and barbarians become a nonissue. We should expand quickly if we are to be competitive.

 

[unclethrill]

I should be able to give this a try tonight.

Mesix, did you see any Airships in your start or were the AI only building Warriors and Archers?

I'm not sure how advanced a tech we can get out of the oracle. Depending on who the AI are, it may go fast. We may want to try to get a more strategic middle tech so that we can hookup the advanced techs faster.

 

[BLubmuz]

I'm not sure how advanced a tech we can get out of the oracle. Depending on who the AI are, it may go fast. We may want to try to get a more strategic middle tech so that we can hookup the advanced techs faster.

Since Rifling requires GP, i think that the best tech we can have is MC.
Yes the poor MC!
Without gold or gems we can't stand a chance for the CS sling, so we'll need to shoot were we can hit the target.
Probably electricity is possible, it's right after physics, but since

Turns count, NOT beakers,(TM)

We'll need more turns to research MC now than Electricity at the right time.

 

[greatbeyond]

Ooops, I was thinking about GOTM40 where you can build Levees on either a coast or river.

I'll try to piece together another test with a different map type tonight.

 

[Mesix]

If we can get the Oracle, let's get Genetics. it is a 7K tech that will give us +3 immediately and allow us to build space components earlier.

 

[Mesix]

@GB, this test game is fine. It allows us to form some early game strategies and see how the AI behaves with those extra techs. Thanks for taking the time to make it for us.

 

[Sweetacshon]

And we're off. I have the save, have played 10 turns, teched to sailing, and lost a warrior. Who's next?

 

[Sweetacshon]

OKay, that's cruel. So, can we all vote on the scout move, so I can take a ss and post it? I vote 2S1W.