SGOTM 09 - Team CFR

AlanH

AlanH

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BtS SGOTM 09 - Back to the Future


Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 9 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The Game
This is the second Beyond the Sword SGOTM. Thanks, Gyathaar :thumbsup:

You are Pericles of Greece. You have travelled back to 4000 BC, but you took with you a knowledge of several modern technologies. Your task is now to return to the modern era as fast as possible, and to reach for the stars.

This is a Quick speed, Monarch difficulty game on a Standard sized mystery map. There are no goody huts, no events and no city razing.

Pericles is Philosophical and Creative. The Phalanx is your unique unit, replacing the Axeman; and the Odeon unique building replaces the Colosseum. As well as your usual starting techs, Hunting and Fishing, you brought with you a comprehensive library of text books.

The Objective
All victory conditions are enabled, but laurels will be awarded to teams with the quickest Space victories.

Versions
This game will be played in Civilization IV Beyond the Sword, version 3.17, using HoF Mod 3.17.001.

If a later BtS patch is released during this game you will NOT be able to use it to play. You will need to complete this game in version 3.17 before updating your copy of BtS, or create and update a separate copy.

As there is no Mac version of BtS, Mac players can only join in if they are able to run the Windows version on their system.

Schedule
  • The Team threads will open shortly.
  • The start files will be published here on Friday, March 27.
  • The latest Save for your team will be linked on the Progress and Results Page throughout the game.
  • Please plan to complete the game within three months of the start date.
  • NOTE: Barring unforeseen disasters there will be a four month final deadline.
    I shall declare winners and losers from those teams that have finished on July 27, 2009.
Starting Position
Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.

​

Map Parameters
  • Playable Leader/Civ - Pericles of the Greek Empire.
  • Characteristics - Philosophical and Creative, starts with Hunting and Fishing
  • You and all the AI also know Fascism, Scientific Method, Physics, Medicine, Flight, Machinery, Replaceable Parts and Superconductors
  • Unique Unit - Phalanx (Axeman)
  • Unique Building - Odeon (Colosseum)
  • Difficulty - Monarch
  • Game Speed - Quick (330 turns)
  • World size - Standard
  • Rivals - Probably
  • Landform - Mystery
  • Environment - Not saying
  • Other settings - No city razing, No goodie huts, No events
Notes
  • Please visit the [URL="http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168439]Civ4 SGOTM reference thread[/URL] to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
  • Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the teams with the fastest Spaceship victories, and the Wooden Spoons for the finishing team with the lowest final score.
  • All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.
Enjoy your game, and the best of luck :)
 
Поехали
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We still don't know the map type and amount of AI but already can do some tests and conclusions.

Wars

First of all it's quick speed and every move of units is very important. Wars aren't effective because of quick obsoleting of military units for attaker and fast building defence for defender.
Early war is very hard because it's Monarch level and AIs have Archers. On the next stage AIs will have Crossbowmens and Airships and on the last part of game effect from additional cities will not significant because of revolt and luck of important buildings.
So, we should have the strong reasons for fighting, for example, very small room for peacfull expantion.

Cities Number

This is next point we should take for detailed consideration.
Absolute minimum of cities number is 6, because of this amount is required for Oxford (6 Universities) and with such number of cities we can build SS components without break (special sequence of tech researching), of course if all of 6 cities are strong.
But in this case Corporations have very small effect and resulting science output will not be enough strong - around 1.5-1.8K beakers per turn on the final stage and during building SS components this value will significally decrease.
Also small amount of cities means smaller chance of covering important resource and less ability of forcing tech rate when we need to save 1 turn on the very late stage.
Every well developed city except of capital in common produces 200 beakers per turn and save 2-3 turns on the way to Space. Of corse, every next city adds less in %, but as I understand from my test the optimum number for peacefull expantion is 15 cities (I had only 10).
With 15 cities near turn 100 we could win before turn 150. In my test I had 10 cities and finish in 158+/-2 (I haven't ended test). Of course, real map could significally change all calculations.

Economy

There are several methods of making beakers for science: using Cottages, Specialists or Hammers. All methods are ordinary used at the same time, but with different weight.
For increasing output from Cottages we should use Universal Suffrage, Free Speech and Emancipation civics. The common name of such style is Cottage Economy.
For increasing output from Specialists we should use Representation civic (Pyramids or Constitution), but for mass usage of Specialists we need high food output in the cities. It depends from the map type and existence of food corporation.
For increasing output from Hammers we should use State Property civic or Mining Inc.
And for every type of Economy we need resource for happiness and Health.
In this game with small amount of cities on standart map size we will have small effect from corporation and we don't know how many resource we could capture. But we know some modern techs so we could go by the other way...

New way
We can build Windmill, Watermill and Forest Preserve from the start. We can switch to Environmentalism for +2 commerce to Forest Preserve and Windmill, We already know Replaceble Parts for +1 hammer to Windmill and Watermill. And, we can use Oracle (if we will have time to build it) for Electricity for +2 commerce to Watermill and +1 to Windmill.
All this things discover the new way to the sky. In addition Forest Preserve increase happiness in the nearest cities so we can use it instead of lux.
Forest Preserve also force growth of new Forests.

We can build both Oxford and National Park in the capital and got strong center of Science and GP production.
 
I am too agree :) It's the point of when/whether to build Oracle and other subtleties where the devil lurks.
 
Yes, there are 2 possible places for Oracle - Capital or Second City.
1) If we build Oracle in Capital we can do it early but the Second City should build Library fast and for long time sets 2 citizen as Scientists. This way will allow us to get more effect from Bureaucracy civic but after building National Park we will always have a chance for GProphet. May be it's good because we will need at least 4 GAges but GScientists give a little bulbs - much less the beakers per 1 turn in the final stage.
2) If we build Oracle in the Second City - we should set 2 Scientists in Capital - it isn't so good with Bureaucracy, it will limit the growth of Capital and Settler production. But in this case we will have pure GS factory.
 
So, the first stage of our game - exploring and expanding, build Oracle earlier then AI, take Electricity or Genetics.
Second stage - National Park;
Third stage - final running.
 
First decision for us - direction for Scout. We can see the blue circle on NNW. May be there are some additional resource there. But I think it's place for second city (NN) if we will not find better.
But for Capital we need more Forests and don't need coast (we aren't Financial). In my test I used S-place for Capital and revolution to Environmentalism during Settler movment. So may be Scout S,SE is better choice.
 
Concerning Oracle:

As we seem to start in the corner, land grab looks like a priority. If indeed every adequate city before turn 100 gives 200 bulbs for the next 50 turns, another city = 10K bulbs, while Oracle gives 6K at most, stiffling the expansion. Do we really need it we will know only from the map, but I think we will not discover enough yet when we have to choose between going Myst-Medi-Oracle or abandon it and pick other way to Alpha.

Will have to risk.
 
1) I think that we have to build Oracle in cap because we need something to do in it while it is growing up. And it is possible to make clean scientists in 2nd and 3rd cities which we may need for academy and education rush. I doubt that we can have troubles with Gprophets because high percentage for that will be only for the first specialist. Others will be higher tnan 90% sciencists. And I dont beleive we will get more than 2-3 of them with that chance.
2) Even good cities will give 100-200 bulbs per turn in very late game. Lack of cities will make it harder to enhaste technology in late game, of course. But we must take in accoun the fact that in this game overall bulb output is demanded on significantly lower level than in regular ones. I mean that we have much techs allready teched and will be able to cover 10-15k bulbs with oracle/liberalism. We will also have great GS output.
I will take part in testing later because now it is like weather prediction. We are too dependant to the land and resourses.
 
Electricity - 4.5K, Genetics - 7K
Near turn 100 most of cities don't give 200 bulbs yet so effect from cities of last wave is around 5-7K. But yes, if Oracle will break us in expantion and we could lose places for 2-3 cities the better way is skip Oracle at all.
Really our first tech will be Agriculture so we have just 6+1(movement) turns for decision...
 
Testing also revealed that AI settle much slower than human player, have fewer workers which puts them back at Quick speed, and are keen on Wonder building, often even before the 1st settler. With marble and gold Gandhi can build Oracle as soon as 1960BC, without wood chopping.

Therefoer I believe that we should first expand to 2 cities + 2 settlers, and then grab Oracle if it is still available. This puts Oracle techs after Alpha (if there are neighours to research Alpha for).
 
Testing without Gandhi and Marble in his FC shows Oracle from AI in turn 50-55. If it's true we could go to the Alpha first. For earlier Oracle we should research Agri-Myst-Medi-Priest and set 2-d city at that point.
 
Hi, team.

Just read everything, and it does seem obvious that using forest preserves and beelining National Park is the way to go in this game. But I don't have much experience with late game techs in civ4. Need to study the tech tree & read civilopedia before I can actually write something usefull. :lol:
 
Obormot said:
But I don't have much experience with late game techs in civ4. Need to study the tech tree & read civilopedia before I can actually write something usefull. :lol:
Click to expand...
This time we will have non-standart late tech sequence because of we already know some modern tech and it looks like we will not have many cities.
 
Another question is if we build Oracle, do we pick Genetics (health + 2K bulbs) vs Electricity (commerce from windmills and watermills). We will get Electricity ~70 turns earlier than would get it natuarally; thus to compensate for bulbs lost, with average science multiplier to commerce of 1.5, we need 2000/70/1.5 = ~20 constantly worked mills on average; as we start with ~0 of them at turn 50 we should reach ~40 at the end when we otherwise research Electro, or 3-4 per city. This is a reasonable number, if we have many river and hill tiles and food and happiness from woods to work all of them after we work more attractive tiles. Still, to me Genetics appeals a bit more due to bonus health effect.
 
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