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SGOTM 10 - Xteam

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jul 31, 2009.

  1. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    BtS SGOTM 10 - Armageddon



    Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 10 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

    In this, the third BtS SGOTM, Gyathaar wants nuclear devastation. Stalin of Russia starts in the Renaissance era in 1285 AD, in a world with five Aggressive AI civs. He is hell bent on world conquest, BUT he can only capture a city if he nukes it first.

    It's a fight to the nuclear death in an Epic speed, Emperor difficulty game on a Small sized Big and Small map. There are no goody huts, no events, no city razing, no city flipping, no Vassals. Only Conquest is enabled.

    It's a standard Renaissance start, so you get a lot of techs at the beginning. Cities are created with pop 2 and a few buildings. You start with two settlers, two longbows, one explorer and a worker. The AI start with two settlers, four longbows, two explorers and a worker.

    Versions
    This game will be played in Civilization IV Beyond the Sword, version 3.19, using the new all-singing, all-dancing HoF Mod BUFFY-3.19.001. This HoF Mod version is available now. You can download it here.

    If a later BtS patch is released during this game you will NOT be able to use it to play. You will need to complete this game in version 3.19 before updating your copy of BtS, or create and update a separate copy.

    Mac players can only join in if they are able to run the Windows game on their system.

    Timetable
    The game will start on Friday, August 7 .

    Your start file, and then each submitted Save for your team, will be linked on the Progress and Results Page throughout the game. Please ensure that you only download your own team file.

    The finish deadline is December 7 2009. If any team has not finished by this date they will be deemed to have retired, and will not be eligible for any awards.

    Starting Position
    Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.



    Map Parameters
    • Playable Leader/Civ - Stalin of the Russian Empire.
    • Traits - Aggressive, Industrious.
    • Unique Unit - Cossack (replaces Cavalry)
    • Unique Building - Research Institute (replaces Laboratory)
    • Renaissance Era start - turn 277, 1285 AD.
    • Difficulty - Emperor
    • Game Speed - Epic (473 turns)
    • World size - Small
    • Rivals - Five
    • Landform - Big and Small
    • Other settings - No city razing, No Culture Flips, No goodie huts, No events, Aggressive AI, No Vassals
    • Victory Conditions - Conquest Only
    Notes
    • Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
    • Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the Fastest Conquest victory, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher. You will drop down the final ranking table* for each city that you capture without nuking it with a direct hit first. A "Capture" is defined as any method of obtaining a city other than by building it yourself using a settler. A "Capture" also includes retrieving a city you originally built but lost.

      *The final ranking will sort teams in the following order:
      1. Win, lose or retire. Wins go first. Retirements go last.
      2. For wins, the number of un-nuked cities captured. Zero missed cities go first.
      3. For wins, the finish date.
      4. For losses and retirements, final score will determine their rankings within those categories.
    • All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

    Have fun.
     
  2. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Checking in.

    I guess Lief will want to reserve some posts near the beginning of this thread for special purposes...? I'll hold off posting more until he's done that.
     
  3. Cactus Pete

    Cactus Pete Deity GOTM Staff

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    I'm here with you MP.

    Never used nukes in RL . . . guess this is the next worse thing.
     
  4. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    Checking in and posting a test map created with BUFFY-3.19.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  6. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Welcome back for another round! :thumbsup:

    Thanks for the test game SCT.

    This looks to be an interesting challenge. Only have used nukes to see the cool effects. Guess I won't be playing too late with the sound up? :cringe:

    How do we see this; tech race while keeping AI from getting too developed by pillaging and setting up wars between them?
     
  7. rrau

    rrau Emperor

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    Checking in. Tried a nuke game last night, but couldn't figure out what required techs are needed to make nukes. Had the manhattan project build.....didn't have flight or artillery. Tried beelining to the nuclear tech.....It didn't work.
     
  8. rrau

    rrau Emperor

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    I failed with the test game... no oil or uranium in my borders. Can't make nukes/attack modern units with rifles. Can't capture cities with those resources until nukes....Hope gyathaar took this into account. And the ai's with extra were my worst enemy...no chance of a trade.
     
  9. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    Nukes require Fission, Rocketry, Manhattan Project, and uranium.

    I expect we will find uranium quite close to the starting position. With aggressive REXing at the beginning of the game, we shouldn't run into the problem of no uranium. Otherwise the game would be unwinnable. I didn't notice where uranium was in my test game. Feel free to worldbuilder some in. Oil is not really necessary. Cavalry can easily destroy nuke-damaged city defenders. Assembly Line would give us infantry (as well as +75% hammers from factories and plants).

    Not sure if we want to go for AssLine before or after Rocketry/Fission. It depends on how many hammers we need to nuke and capture all cities. I'm going to try a test game focusing on beelining Communism and AssLine to set up a workshop economy with no cottages and limited specialists. I haven't really looked at what GPs can bulb but I guess GSs should be pretty useful.
     
  10. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Was just playing around with your save SCT.

    I think I learned a valuable lesson. We should consider posting units near good city sites to keep Barbs cities from spawning there as we REX. We have to nuke those cities before we can take them as well. :rolleyes:

    Within 30 turns, Augustus figured out the world was round. :eek:

    The AI can sure pump out some units... :crazyeye:
     
  11. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    Absolutely. We need to fogbust as much good territory as possible. Cheap warriors should do the trick.

    One way to help us get circumnavigation is to buy world maps from any AI we meet and not give them ours. Optics is known from the start so circumnavigation will go fast.
     
  12. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I think we're really going to have to figure out the opening sequence of builds. We will need Workers, Work Boats, Warriors for watching city sites, Libraries to boost research and start on Great Scientists, Settlers and more. :eek:

    Playing your test game tells me this is going to more difficult than I thought. :)

    To me, looks like research should be Education and a quick Oxford, if we can get 6 city sites...

    In the latest test game, I had Barb HA's paying a visit, as well as Swords. Not a huge problem, except when they began tearing up improvements. :rolleyes:
     
  13. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    I don't know about needing many libraries. We can hire scientists with Caste System in a couple cities and get most research from workshops. Workshops don't benefit from libraries.

    6 universities and Oxford is a big investment of hammers that only pays off if we have a lot of raw commerce. Education-Liberalism or Education-Economics looks like a popular tech path among the AI. I wonder if it's better to let the AI win those races and research something they wont, like Gunpowder-Chem.
     
  14. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    This is going to be quite a challenge. Some random thoughts...

    I'd prefer NOT one of the first turn sets. I want more time learn to handle BtS.

    It occurs to me that speed of conquest will be helped by:

    1. Getting to fission quick to start building nukes
    2. Stopping the AI from settling very much so we have to build and fire less nukes
    3. If it looks like someone might be about to build the SDI, just nuke everyone now instead of hitting only one in four (or whatever it is) later. The SDI could prove expensive for us if someone builds it.

    My policy in using nukes in the past (with a modern start usually) has always been to let someone else build the Manhattan project for me rather than wasting hammers doing it myself. In this game however we probably won't want to wait for someone else to do it - we'll have to invest the hammers ourselves.

    Keeping several AI at a time under the military thumb will not be easy on Emperor. At least it wouldn't be for me... Failing to "dominate" them may result in them spawning lots of cities = lots more hammers for us to find to build the necessary nukes.
     
  15. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Ugh. Modern starts are easier. :cry: The more I think about this one, the more there is to think about. We might want to play around a bit before turn set one.

    How much tech trading are we expecting to be able to do? If we want to reduce AI settling speed, we might get ourselves in diplomatic trouble doing it...?

    What are our chances of winning a liberalism race? It's probably expensive to fail since I can think of better techs to go for early if we're not going to get a free tech out of it...

    I'm not yet familiar with some of the BtS leaders - won't some of them find gunpowder a popular tech too?
     
  16. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Been founding the capital 1 tile north of the Corn, to get both Gold hills. Seems like a nice city for a Library?

    Been founding the second city on the forest tile near the two Ivory, lots of food for a GP farm.

    Biggest problem thus far is trying to grow cities while needing to build Workers and Settlers.

    If the hammer economy is where we want to go, perhaps beeline for Assembly Line? Get the cities up and running and then head up the Chemistry line through Physics to Fission?
     
  17. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    And hurting tech trading. Looks like we need to find a very, good friend, not too close by.

    I think your right, the cost of failure is very high.

    This is another balancing act, aggressive AI, small world, 5 civs means a bit crowded. :cringe:
    With an AI looking to expand, probably having a higher power rating than us. :eek:
    We'll need to balance protecting ourselves as well. :crazyeye:
     
  18. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    Tech trading will depend on which AI we meet. If we delay adopting our religion, and if we meet AI whose favorite civic is one we want to adopt, we should be able to trade for techs like Education, Economics, and Nationalism. Those were the most popular techs in my test game.

    Stopping the AI from settling using war could be an expensive gamble. The AI gets a pretty hefty bonus in producing units, and since we can't capture cities early, war wouldn't get us any big advantage.

    If we ensured that our first GP was a GS, we could bulb part of Education and probably win the race if no other AI did the same. Adopting Mercantilism at the beginning gives us a free specialist but the only specialist we can hire without a new building or Caste is an engineer. A GE will want to bulb Gunpowder and then Chemistry. If we want to start the game in Slavery (which is best for REXing), we either a) accept a GE as our first GP; or b) switch to scientist specialists midway after getting a library and have a polluted GP pool with a chance for a GE or GS; or c)
    adopt Caste after building a few more cities and hire enough scientists in one of those new cities to beat out the GE due in Moscow and St. Pete. I don't like choice b. I want to know what our first GP will be so we can plan our research precisely.

    It seems like it's not a big AI priority.
     
  19. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    I founded Moscow 1S of the rice because being on the river will instantly irrigate the rice and corn and give 1 more food each. Later we can build a levee in what will probably be our best hammer city.

    I founded St. Pete on the northern elephant to get the immediate extra hammer.

    I'm trying for a beeline to Communism first, so workshop cities can grow big and work more workshops. Research is Gunpowder-Chem-PP-SM, trade for Education and Liberalism, then on to Communism. GSs will bulb PP and SM if we can get Education in a trade first. GE will bulb Chem. With State Property and workshop spam in 6-8 cities, our research starts to zoom past AI and we can get free GS from Physics.
     
  20. Mad Professor

    Mad Professor Deity

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    Not adopting the religion has the cost of... what? A happy in a city or two and the benefits of the religious civics? Not too bad I suppose unless we're in a screaming hurry for some buildings. Benefit being the diplomatic bonus, possibly allowing continued tech trade? Sounds good.

    Exactly. Slightly crowded map just means the AI puts cities closer together though, not reduced numbers usually. So we just accept that we'll have to build a lot of nukes? I agree that using war to prevent AI development early on has big time costs. It's just that in conquest games or all war games I'm so used to trying to cower the AI into doing nothing with workers and settler parties. In this game though the inability to take cities before having a nuke to drop on it really changes things. Like I said, the more I think about this game, the more there is to think about. We are almost cornered into attacking only mature AI's...
     

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