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SGOTM 11 - Barley Demons

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. Adlain

    Adlain Chieftain

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    i read the following oin the mainanance thread and took it as only 1 person may load the save per turnset.
    ether way, i think ill stick to veiwing screenshots for now, unless it becomes too much of a burden :)
     
  2. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    I can see the confusion because it doesn't say who can (or can't) look at a save. The restrictions are that only one player can play the save, and only your team's save not anyone else's. :)

    Awesome!
     
  3. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    I clicked on the save link in timmy's post and it downloaded a save. Is this the way to do it or is there a webpage you have to go to download it officially. When you are done looking at it do you have to upload it somewhere? How is this done? I didn't actually mean to download the save. I thought the link would go to a page where you can get the save.

    Compromise, could you help clarify the whole save download, upload process because I don't want to do something wrong?
     
  4. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    Be glad to!

    In the first post of this thread, under the Timetable heading, there is a link to the SGOTM submission page. This page has all of the current saves for all SGOTM games including--and defaulting to--the current one. From here, you could download the current save from any of the teams playing the selected (default is current) SGOTM. You have to be very careful to only click on our team's save here!

    The way the saves get to the above page is that each turnplayer uploads it to the GOTM server. There is a link to the GOTM Upload page on the submission page (thought not in the first post of our thread :crazyeye:). After you have played your turnset, you go to this submission page, enter your CFC login name and upload the save. The (S)GOTM server automatically processes this, makes sure you didn't cheat, renames the file, and places it on the submission list so that everyone can get to it.

    Feel free to visit both of those pages now if you'd like to see what's there.

    It is considered good SGOTM etiquette to make a link to this new save game and post it in your turnset report so that other players don't have to go find the submission page to get the game. This is what both timmy and I did at the end of our turnset report posts.

    It is okay for anyone (a) on our team or (b) not playing or lurking any team to download the save. But you must be certain that you don't make any non-reversible action in the game!

    So, some things you can do:
    • switch the current technology selection around; maybe to see how many turns various techs will take
    • switch city build orders
    • switch citizen tile/specialist assignments
    • look to see what trades the AI will make
    • check to see how many moves a unit would take to move to a location (don't release the mouse button!)
    • check combat odds (don't release the button!)

    But to repeat, you can't do anything that can't be undone, e.g. you can't:
    • move any units
    • actually make any deals with the AI, including war or peace
    • bulb or settle any great people

    This way, the team doesn't rely on a whole bunch of screenshots in order to communicate the current state of the game. It also means that there is an element of trust afforded to everyone not to abuse the openness of this system. But we're used to that at RB.

    In a previous SGOTM, I asked the admins if it was okay to look back at prior autosaves recorded on the turnplayer's computer. They couldn't understand why we might want to do this--in our case, I wanted to see if we could see when an AI went to "enough on hands" but I think the turnplayer no longer had the autosaves--but said that it was okay to look at them. That response might have been specific to that SGOTM, so if we wanted to do this, e.g. if Zara's espionage ratio changes and we want to note the exact turn it changed, we'd want to check with this game's admins before opening any non-officially-submitted saves.

    I'll put links to both the save-list and submission pages on the Update Post for this game that I'm trying to keep current.

    Let me know if I've missed anything (or if I'm mistaken about anything!).
     
  5. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    Cruising the CFC forums looking for potentially useful articles. While T-Hawk is probably our best reference for cultural victories, here is a not-quite-complete guide to cultural victory.

    (Yes, I know we're planning diplomatic, but ya never know.)

    Edit: Here's the early planning from the team that won SGOTM3 by darn quick diplo (from Post #12 of the SGOTM3 CFR thread (their world was a 17-civ, Monarch archipelago):

    Spoiler :

    OK, I've made the summary of our discussion. I propably missed something, since the original discussion was 10 pages long and I didn't feel like rereading everything.

    Obviously we are going for a diplo win, since it is faster.

    We plan to have an early war to capture enough land for a fast science pace. Six good cities is the bare minimum, so that we can build Oxford and other wonders that require multiple cities, but if we can capture more land easily, we'll go for it. After capturing all the land we need we'll concentrate on science. We'll try to get the rest of the votes peacefully.

    We plan to make our religion dominant in the world. Spreading religion by missionaries should be effective in an archipelago world with 17 civs and only 6 heathen religions. We need +7 relations with the AI for them to vote for us. With "Aggressive AI" turned on, the base relations with the AI will range from -1 to -4. We'll get +1 from peace, +2 from OB, +4 from trade and +2-6 from religion. That should be enough for most civs, but we'll have to be carefull to prevent diplo penalties from trade with "worst enemies". So we'll have to choose early which civs we want to have on our sides and only trade with them while alliing against all others.

    The exact opening sequence is being discussed now, but obviously we'll research fishing and bronze first. We plan to build two boats quickly and then a quick settler.

    We agreed that triing for a CS-slingshot is not a good idea in warlords on monarch level, but we do want to build the Oracle anyway. The plan is to take Metal Casting for free and build a quick forge. We should get an engineer at 500BC or so and that will likely give us the Piramids, which is extremely usefull in a UN game.

    We plan to take the shortest path to Mass Media after researching all the base economic techs. Nearly all expensive techs on that way can be lightbulbed by a GS, so we want to generate plenty of those. We'll propably stay in slavery for a while to build some basic infrastructure and then switch to CS/pacifism.
     
  6. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    Thanks Compromise for that info.

    That is some interesting information about a diplo strategy. I'll be interested in reading more to see how well their plans worked out.
     
  7. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    | ___ \ / _` || '__|| | / _ \| | | | | | | | / _ \| '_ ` _ \  / _ \ | '_ \ / __|
    | |_/ /| (_| || |   | ||  __/| |_| | | |/ / |  __/| | | | | || (_) || | | |\__ \
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    How do we feel about the Pyramids? Are they too expensive in hammer cost? We do have stone, so we could probably pull it off. If we want them we might consider putting our third city there and put our fourth city at the oasis/wheat spot. Just throwing it out there.

    EDIT: Just to add, they do go well with our SPI trait and switching to people's favorite civics even before we have late techs could be helpful for diplomacy. But I don't usually play with any wonders, so I never know about wonders.
     
  8. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    I put the save file in my Saves>Single folder, but when I try to open it it says it's protected and something else but I couldn't read it since it closed the program quickly. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? I was in Buffy.003, so the mod thing shouldn't be an issue.
     
  9. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    That sounds like a different error than I had at first. I used the BUFFY/HoF Windows Vista/7 issues page to get SGOTM11 to run cleanly on my machine.

    One of the suggestions is to run BTS as an Administrator, but when I did that, it slowed the game down considerably. Doesn't seem to be necessary for HoF compliance though.

    Keep us updated on your efforts. If they persist, we may need to contact one of the admins. It is unusual to have a unique problem.
     
  10. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    Attempting it several times I was able to piece together what I think the message says.

    Has anyone seen this before? If not I guess we should ask the admins.
     
  11. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    Hmmmm. It seems to think that you have something non-standard in your assets (or Custom Assets?) folder. Have you ever worked with any custom DLL files or anything? And I assume you're fully patched to 3.19.

    Otherwise, I agree: PM an admin or Ruff_hi.
     
  12. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    I don't know that there is anything non-standard, but I do get the message that my files don't match the files of the host whenever I login to a pitboss game, so maybe there is something funny in there. I think I'll try a reinstall and see if that clears it up. If not I'll PM one of those people.

    Don't let my technical difficulties distract us from discussing the strategy for the upcoming turnset.
     
  13. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    Now I have my own question. How did SilentConfusion make the nice potential city zones in his post? Is this a BUFFY or BUG feature?

    Edit: Never mind. Google--via the BUG wiki--has the answer: Alt-X
     
  14. pocketbeetle

    pocketbeetle Chieftain

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    Agree, 3h + commerce > 3f, thanks for pointing it out :)
    Whip at size 4!

    And yeah, the alt-X, cntrl-X feature of Bug is really nice.
     
  15. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    Code:
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    | |_/ /| (_| || |   | ||  __/| |_| | | |/ / |  __/| | | | | || (_) || | | |\__ \
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    I'd like to echo SilentConfusion's question about building the Pyramids. With stone, they'll cost us 375H. They give us access to either early Representation or Hereditary Rule (Monarchy is ~700B). Engineer points probably aren't bad, but it's tough to say for sure since we don't have a great person plan.

    Also, I never know where, when or whether to build the Moai Statues. With stone though, it seems like a no-brainer to get them up somewhere before terribly long.
     
  16. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    | |_/ /  __ _  _ __ | |  ___  _   _  | | | |  ___  _ __ ___    ___   _ __   ___
    | ___ \ / _` || '__|| | / _ \| | | | | | | | / _ \| '_ ` _ \  / _ \ | '_ \ / __|
    | |_/ /| (_| || |   | ||  __/| |_| | | |/ / |  __/| | | | | || (_) || | | |\__ \
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    A great engineer could build us the Great Library (double prod with Marble) if we're going that route (not sure best route to MM) which would ramp up our GS production rate that many turns earlier. We can use GSs to help us bulb to MM. A GE could also rush the UN (no resource doubling), but at this point we will have a large hammer capacity, so not sure it's a better use.

    As for where to build Moai Statues, I like to build them in a city with a lot of coastal tiles (coastal tiles are better than ocean tiles), but that also has a high hammer tile so it doesn't take forever. But yes with stone this could be built rather quickly and it is nice to have. With stone I'd probably build it rather early to take advantage of the increased production for longer, but it obviously goes after important growth infrastructure in that city.

    And in other great news... I reloaded my Civ IV with all expansions from scratch and updated and patched and downloaded the Buffy mod again, and all of the effort paid off. It works just fine now. I will post some screenshots of the current food, hammer, and beaker counts just to make sure we are starting micro calculations from a correct starting point.
     
  17. SilentConfusion

    SilentConfusion Emperor

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    | ___ \ / _` || '__|| | / _ \| | | | | | | | / _ \| '_ ` _ \  / _ \ | '_ \ / __|
    | |_/ /| (_| || |   | ||  __/| |_| | | |/ / |  __/| | | | | || (_) || | | |\__ \
    \____/  \__,_||_|   |_| \___| \__, | |___/   \___||_| |_| |_| \___/ |_| |_||___/
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    Here's a few screenshots for those not logging into the game. I tried to take the shots that I thought would be most helpful in our decision making.

    Here's a picture of our capitol and it also shows our tech situation. We have 0/139 into the Wheel, with some overflow. I don't know the exact overflow, but it can probably be guessed from looking at the other micro.

    Spoiler :



    Here's a shot of our city screen, with the food box, hammer box, and culture box shown for micro purposes.

    Spoiler :



    Here's a shot of the Espionage screen, with Zara's current EP against us added. We can tell how many hammers he has into his builds by using the following formula: Hammers = (Sabotage.Production.Cost * (Their.EP + 100)) / (3 * Investigate.City.Cost). Right now they have about 19h invested in their current, build. I don't think this will be so important, but it can tell us if he's attempting a wonder or perhaps a settler, which might be useful to us at some point. So I'll keep an eye on the Sabotage.Production value through my turnset.

    Spoiler :



    Here are some screenshots of the areas where we may want to settle our early cities. I forgot to turn resource bubbles on when I took them, but I think the resources are pretty clear. If there is even one person who would rather have the resources labeled, let me know and I'll get new ones.

    Spoiler :






    I'll throw out some of my ideas for this turnset in a little bit after I've given it a little more thinking time.

    Please throw out ideas or opinions about anything relating to short-term or long-term strategy.
     
  18. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    Great to hear you got the save working.

    I have a little time right now, so I'm going to do a little potential dotmapping and some runs trying to get a useful settler out.
     
  19. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    | . > ___  _ _ | | ___  _ _  | . \ ___ ._ _ _  ___ ._ _  ___| |
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    I'd like to propose a new dotmap based on the latest exploring:

    Spoiler :


    City 1 is 1S of the location we've been considering. This city's purpose is simply to block Zara. From this location (A-2 from the old labeling, I think), it can grow on grassland cottages and hold steady at a happy cap by either working 2 grass hills (for production) or 2 plains river cottages (to grow them for the capital).

    City 2 grabs stone. It looks like it will be fed by floodplains and will get fresh water health bonus. Obviously this city's location could change based on new tile revelations. On the stone or 1S of it also look to be decent, but then we start losing some grassland tiles in the interior

    City 3 is 1N of the previously considered site, but still on a plains hill. It grabs wheat and is on the coast--and the north coast at that--unlike any of the other cities we've considered.

    These three cities block off pre-galley Zara. He could sneak a city in-between all of them, but long-term we could pressure crush such a city. And we might want our own cow city, shown with a "?"

    The other "?" city is also tentative, but has lots of coasts and lakes. A Moai candidate?

    Note that other than the capital, none of these are production cities. I always struggle to find those. Now that I look at it again though, perhaps city 1--with 1 plains and 3 grass hills, and farmable grasslands--is production? Or at least hybrid?

    I've also been thinking about war with Zara. No copper for him is great for. It means that he either has to wait for swords or attack us on wheels, and we'll be able to build spears (after we build at least four warriors, of course). If he ever declares on us, I say we go take Aksum and leave him in the tundra.
     
  20. Compromise

    Compromise Emperor

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    The micro for the first 6 turns of the turnset are fairly straightforward:

    Eastern warrior can get to the north coast and back to forested hills if no animals pop up.

    Western warrior can scout some more. The area around the stone is a priority for planning purposes. The river can be used--imperfectly--for barb animal defense.

    Fast Worker 1 (FW1) goes SE(1chop), SW(1chop), SE(1chop), SW(mine), mine, mine, NE(1chop).
    FW2 goes S(chop), SW(mine), mine, mine, NE(1chop).

    Delhi builds warrior after FW2 completes.

    At that point: the forest 1S of Delhi is pre-chopped; Delhi has just grown to size 3 with 8/39 food in the bar; the warrior is 9/22 complete; and The Wheel is 4T away.

    Now build what in Delhi? Warrior(s) to grow for future whipping? Worker (to chop and road) or settler? Whips? Chops?

    Worker priorities: Roads to new city sites? Chops? Cottages? Grass hills?

    On T42, Pottery says 9T away (plus 4T left on Wheel), and that's about what it takes. Discovery of Pottery might be a good place to end the next turnset.

    In my playtesting, I grew Delhi to size 4 on a warrior (plus started another), then grew a settler. Was able to road over to the Bombay site and put two chops into the settler. Also warrior #3 could fogbust the Bombay site.
     

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