SGOTM 11 - Barley Demons

About the dotmap:

I like the proposed dotmap. I was a little leery of putting the northern city one off the coast anyway and I like the new 1N movement. We might want to move the stone city W especially if this adds a Floodplain, since we'd only really lose some plains, this would mean we'd need a border pop to get the stone though, so we'd have to really think about it.

And the ? site near the deer, looks like a good Moai site. Those four lake tiles are 3f1h2c tiles with a lighthouse and a Moai, which would be super awesome if we were FIN, but are still not too shabby. That city probably has at least 6 coastal tiles and 4 lake tiles, though it is lacking a bit in production. We can 2-pop whip axes and put the overflow into our Moai with stone bonus. This would be especially a good way to go if we have a seafood tile in the BFC along with the deer for fast growth.
 
About the dotmap, I'm starting to have doubts about city 1. Blocking in Zara is good but I'm not sure it's worth putting our very first settler in an area with no resources whatsoever.
 
About the dotmap, I'm starting to have doubts about city 1. Blocking in Zara is good but I'm not sure it's worth putting our very first settler in an area with no resources whatsoever.

I'm coming around to this point of view. After playing with the testsave a bit, that city is rather painful. Even with a granary, it takes 10+ turns to grow.

And plains cow, while a good production tile, is not a good primary food tile around which to base a city.

Maybe it make sense for SilentConfusion to run a partial turnset, get us to size 3, do some scouting (and silvering) and we can re-evaluate?

Seafood up north would determine where we put a coastal city up there.
 
I think it's a little too early to dotmap given the relatively poor food on view. Settling city 2 for no food can't be wise, given that you could block in Zara by settling for the cows and wheat.

I know you might want to have a good few warriors on hand before connecting the copper, but surely you want to mine and work it.
 
Working the copper requires stone city to be 1S of the stone then.

Or was there another location to grab copper?
 
Just a quick reply.

I think we're getting too focussed on dotmapping after only exposing a couple more tiles.
I echo SP's call for more exploring - send the Westernmost warrior up NW to whatever coast is over there.

I still like the aggressive blocking city, even if it gets no resources now, it grabs land and could contain resources later (Horses?).
Prefer 1N from the screenshot to try and eventually pick up the flood plain, saves losing a forest, less cultural pressure when ZY settles his second city.
No need to spend time early on roading to it imo, as river connects.

Finally, production cities:
A Copper Stone city could be a good HE, as also could a Wheat/Cows/Oasis city if the coast up North reveals no seafood. It gets a base hammer number of 3 (cows) + 1 (wheat) + 2 (settled ph) + (4+3+3) 3 hills = 16, not counting all the plains around.

For now, the priorities are:
1) Decide next city
2) Explore

I think the choices for 2nd city are either:
1) Something North, picking up the wheat, cows or both.
2) The blocking city due East.
Anything else heads away from ZY and would be a mistake.

Deeescuss
 
Oh and quick piece of advice Re: Dotmapping the Stone tile.

Keep in mind that it's pretty useless for city output.
It looks like it's on a desert(?), if so, then it takes 13 turns to quarry, and gives only 3h output.

Effectively it's a tundra hill tile.
 
Keep in mind that it's pretty useless for city output.

Agreed. And of course no production bonus--other than speed of hookup--to settling right on top if it. In fact, from what we see so far, any site that grabs stone will be almost--but not quite--as food-poor as the eastern site.

Speaking of the eastern site, I think we have time to explore before committing to settler or not settle it early. And, you're right...no need for a road to connect it to the capital. Culture+river=connection there.

Does anyone object to SilentConfusion running the first part--maybe 6T or so--of his turnset? That should reveal some more tiles....
 
Ok, so a primary goal of the first 6 turns would be to push back the fog? Should our eastern warrior head NW to clear out fog or should he go NE to see if there are seafood tile we missed up there?

If we decide whether we want to search for Northern seafood or not, we can draw up a scouting plan.

The micro for the first six turns will be about prechopping on the way to mining the silver, unless we want to do something radically different from what we've talked about.
 
Ok, so a primary goal of the first 6 turns would be to push back the fog? Should our eastern warrior head NW to clear out fog or should he go NE to see if there are seafood tile we missed up there?

If we decide whether we want to search for Northern seafood or not, we can draw up a scouting plan.

The micro for the first six turns will be about prechopping on the way to mining the silver, unless we want to do something radically different from what we've talked about.

I'd prefer to know about seafood up north. Barring animal misfortune, you should be able to reveal the coast around the wheat.

And I think you've got a handle on the pre-chopping. (I like the suggestion to pre-chop grassland forests rather than plains forests.)
 
Ok, so a primary goal of the first 6 turns would be to push back the fog? Should our eastern warrior head NW to clear out fog or should he go NE to see if there are seafood tile we missed up there?
I'd prefer to know about seafood up north. Barring animal misfortune, you should be able to reveal the coast around the wheat.
I think we're all on the same page here aren't we?

2 warriors, the Eastern (injured(?) - Archibold) one goes to scout seafood NE (takes 5 turns to reach).
While Western (Robert) goes NW to find the coast?

12) Conjectures about the other AIs. I've seen Saladin and Boudica go for Hinduism first, and one of the AIs did here. Does anyone else? Or is this random?
Add Monty to this list, he founded Hindu in an Immortal/Epic game I just played.

Given the scenario requirement of all AIs to stay alive, Monty is a real possibility.
Let's hope he's OCC'ing on a 2 tile island somewhere if so.

Other stuff:
Spoiler :
Also - I had to check the silver being available without a road :)
Turns out that mined resources next to rivers don't need a road, they're auto connected. Anywhere else, needs a route.
Learn something new every day!
 
Ok. I'm preparing to run through 6 turns and then stop to give people a chance to think about where to settle our second city.

Here are the things I see that can be accomplished during these turns:

-Eastern Warrior can move NE to the tile 1E of the Wheat and gaze into the darkness looking for sea life. He can stay to forested tiles much of the way and can see from a hill before stepping into the open, which should keep him pretty safe.

-Western Warrior moves W and NW exposing the land around the stone and the floodplains. Moving W instead of NW the warrior decreases the tiles that barbarians can attack him without crossing a river. The river can be used for defense until more defensive ground can be reached.

-Worker 1 moves S towards the silver putting chops into riverside grassland forests on the way, then improves the silver in time for Delhi to grow to size 3.

-Worker 2 is built and goes to help finish the mine by turn 42 doing some chopping on the way.

-Watch Zara's EP levels and his production in Aksum.

-Get part-way through The Wheel.

-Grow to size 3 on turn 42 and grow onto an improved silver tile.

My only question is what to build once Worker 2 is built. Do we go to building a Settler, right after that, putting forest chops into it? Do we grow and then whip? I suspect the former, but want to hear confirmation of this. When I hear back about this, I am ready to take the next 6 turns.
 
To grow Delhi to Size 3 on turn 42, have to build a warrior after worker 2.

However after Delhi has reached size 3, we then have a choice to finish warrior or go for a settler (preferably via chopping not whipping).
 
:agree: (mostly)

I think our first whip should be for a granary. However, it should be noted that a pre-math chop is only worth 2T on a worker or settler.

At this point, our biggest limitation is information about our surroundings. Exploring warriors are really our only way to address that.

For the 6T-partial turnset though, we just want to get to size 3 with a silver mine. At that point, we can decide how (and how much) to prioritize the settler.
 
:agree: (mostly)

I think our first whip should be for a granary. However, it should be noted that a pre-math chop is only worth 2T on a worker or settler.

At this point, our biggest limitation is information about our surroundings. Exploring warriors are really our only way to address that.

For the 6T-partial turnset though, we just want to get to size 3 with a silver mine. At that point, we can decide how (and how much) to prioritize the settler.

That's right. Warrior after worker, at least until we grow to size 3.

So, I play until turn 42 and then I upload the file to the GOTM server? Or do I wait until the end of my turnset?
 
...So, I play until turn 42 and then I upload the file to the GOTM server? Or do I wait until the end of my turnset?

It probably doesn't matter too much, but I'd go ahead and upload it. That way, the rest of us can take a look around.

Also, feel free to delete most of the Alt-S signs on the map. We don't need to know where Zara's scouts are anymore. Except maybe those who might throw themselves in front of the barbs for us! I don't see a need to clutter the map with info from more than about 5T back.
 
Ok, I played until turn 42.

Here's the BUFFY turnlog for the 6 turns:
Spoiler :
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Gandhi's Robert (Warrior) (2.70)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Combat Odds: 21.3%
Turn 38, 3050 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Gandhi's Robert (Warrior) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Gandhi's Robert (Warrior) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Gandhi's Robert (Warrior) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Gandhi's Robert (Warrior) is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Gandhi's Robert (Warrior) is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Gandhi's Robert (Warrior) is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 38, 3050 BC: Barbarian's Lion has defeated Gandhi's Robert (Warrior)!

Turn 41, 2975 BC: Delhi will grow to size 3 on the next turn.

Turn 42, 2950 BC: Delhi has grown to size 3.


Throughout the turns, Zara still had 4 more EP than us, so he hasn't met anyone else yet. On turn 41 Zara built something that was between 36 and 40 hammers, which has to be an archer (37 h).

ARCHIBALD VISITS THE SEA
Spoiler :
Archibald heads to the NE to see if he could find fish or other sea life. And here's what he sees:



...just the horizon.


ROBERT LOOKS INTO THE EYES OF THE WILD
Spoiler :
Robert heads West and sees more of the river basin and some forests which will provide some safety.

But the next turn lions come from everywhere to block the path to the trees.



Robert retreats hoping the lions will head off in the other direction to continue his exploration. The presence of the lions is frightening, but Robert keeps heart.

The next turn, Robert heads West again. One of the lions is still there, but he is on the other side of the river. Robert readies himself to face the lion attacking across the river. Robert fights valiantly and fiercely, but the lion lands an unlikely blow (only 21% chance of success for the lion) that kills Robert. The last thoughts of that brave warrior were that he wished he had explored more of the region for his country.


BENJAMIN'S HARD AT WORK
Spoiler :
Benjamin makes his way to the silver, but not one to waste time, he chops some of the forest as he goes by (SE>SW>SE(x2)). He then finishes a silver mine, which should bring in plenty of cash.


REGINALD'S FIRST STEPS
Spoiler :
A man named Reginald is born on turn 38. Reginald was born with an axe in his hand and the same turn he was born he wandered south into the forest and began to chop it down. He helped Benjamin finish the silver mine after that.


More Photos:
Spoiler :






Zara's Info:
Spoiler :









EDIT: I uploaded the save. This is the link to download it: Save
 
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