SGOTM 11 - Gypsy Kings

That works for me; wouldn't want you to wear out the keyboard on that shiny new laptop :mischief: Or maybe G6, since I'm the newest and 6th member of the Gypsy Kings :king:
Well, you are well beyond being the 6th member of GK ... many have come and gone over the years. R1, C63 and Jon are from the team's inception (therefore the real Kings), I joined in team's second year (much to everyone's dismay at times :hammer2:) which makes me a true Prince. aj joined up a few games after than, and bcool more recently. So, Gt, you are the one new player on the team for this go round.

My guess is that R1 will use Gt, as most likely I will, although we will reserve the right to use Griff if we feel like at times.

There is a precedent, everyone uses dV for me, except when they feel that "idiot" is more appropriate :lol:

dV
 
Maybe not espionage economy, but a few cities with an espionage specialization, maybe from midgame onward?
The Great Wall in the Capitol or the Forbidden Palace city could get us some great spies a littler earlier in the game.

Any bets that fur is on some isolated spot, with some MI worldbuildered in? Maybe only reachable with paratroopers? (so the MI don't get loose in the stone age! :eek:) Addendum: so you need carriers, fighters, and a mob of paras to take the barb fur city ... but can the Gpers be airlifted in (I know the warriors can be)?
The few test maps I generated, Fur was always in the extreme north or south tundra regions. But I suspect an evil map maker would move the only fur to an isolated location. That's probably the reason for that "all cities have access to the 4 resources" rule R1 was wondering about. I did a quick test map with World builder, and you can airlift a GP. But since you can only airlift one unit to a city per turn, it would take 8 turns to get the required people into the fur city after we captured it with this scenario.

With all the Gpers we want, is Parthenon worthwhile?

dV
I would say yes. With a Philosophical leader, we should probably consider a Specialist Economy, or perhaps a Hybrid Economy. Parthenon, Pyramids and Great Library are good early wonders for a philosophical leader. Later on, the Statue of Liberty and the National Park in a city with several Forrest tiles have a lot of synergy with the Philosophical trait.
 
If we have marble, I also love the Mausoleum of Mausolous (sp), The extended Goldenages are great, for GP points, for more GP's, for more extended golden ages! ;) CYA all tomorrow
 
Well, you are well beyond being the 6th member of GK ... many have come and gone over the years. R1, C63 and Jon are from the team's inception (therefore the real Kings), I joined in team's second year (much to everyone's dismay at times :hammer2:) which makes me a true Prince. aj joined up a few games after than, and bcool more recently. So, Gt, you are the one new player on the team for this go round.

My guess is that R1 will use Gt, as most likely I will, although we will reserve the right to use Griff if we feel like at times.

There is a precedent, everyone uses dV for me, except when they feel that "idiot" is more appropriate :lol:

dV
[SAD STORY]I'm no longer allowed to refer to anyone else as '"Idiot" after screwing up the ending of my BOTM 28 game.[/SAD STORY] But I did learn that if you have built the UN, and another Civ has the AP and doesn't have Mass Media, you should gift Mass Media to them so that the AP becomes obsolete :blush:
 
A city with spy specialists and maybe a settled great spy might be worth considering, but I don't believe there is any special need to develop espionage throughout the game. We only really need it near the end of the game. And once we have mass media we can switch all of our commerce into espionage, building up the 1000 or so spy points in each important rival we need to switch several civilizations to the proper civics or religion to improve our relationship.
 
The few test maps I generated, Fur was always in the extreme north or south tundra regions. But I suspect an evil map maker would move the only fur to an isolated location. That's probably the reason for that "all cities have access to the 4 resources" rule R1 was wondering about. I did a quick test map with World builder, and you can airlift a GP. But since you can only airlift one unit to a city per turn, it would take 8 turns to get the required people into the fur city after we captured it with this scenario.
If we build an airport in an isloated fur city, then we can airlift more than one a turn in, right? (Up to four is floating in my head, is that correct?)

dV
 
If we build an airport in an isloated fur city, then we can airlift more than one a turn in, right? (Up to four is floating in my head, is that correct?)

dV
If the isolated fur city has an airport, there may not be a limit on how many units can be transferred into the city. I did another quick world builder test, and was able to transfer ten (10) units into a city with an airport in one turn (ran out of space for more cities since I generated a dual size map). The restriction would be on the departure end; each city with an airport can only airlift one unit per turn.
 
With a Philosophical leader, we should probably consider a Specialist Economy, or perhaps a Hybrid Economy. Parthenon, Pyramids and Great Library are good early wonders for a philosophical leader
Good point. I would cottage the capital extensively for the bureau bonus, however. Let's hope there are other food-rich sites for GP farms nearby.

A word of caution regarding wonder-whoring: it's early to tell, but with the special requirements (all AI alive, max 2 DOW's), and this being Emperor, we should focus on REX first. 2 irrigated corn and fast workers should help with it, and after all, we'll need a fast OxU. Looking at past SGOTMs from rival teams, we can notice that getting this national wonder fast can be more important that any world wonder. Even more so in this game.

Also, from the game description:
This will be no easy feat, since rumour has it that fur is so rare that only one unique supply exists, and that is heavily guarded by the most vile barbarians. Doubtless this was the result of meddling by the Devil Satan when the world was young and the Gods not paying sufficient attention.
I would assume a worst-case scenario, in which getting the UN built would not be the bottleneck, but instead, amassing a strong army capable of grabbing the source of fur from the barbs. Since we won't be able to tech industrialism and plastics...nukes, anyone? :nuke:
 
<snip>Also difficult will be AI whose favourite civic is Free Religion: Lizzy, Willem, Asoka and Darius.

Any bets that you have just listed four of the AI? :eek:

dV
Since this game is about making preparations to welcome a naked Goddess :bowdown: I'll place my two cent wager on all the AI opponents having the Spiritual trait.

Leaders with Spiritual trait and (other trait)...
  1. Asoka (Organized)
  2. Brennus (Charismatic)
  3. Hatsheput (Creative)
  4. Isabella (Expansive)
  5. Justinian (Imperialistic)
  6. Mansa Musa (Financial)
  7. Montezuma (Aggressive)
  8. Ramasses (Industrious)
  9. Saladin (Protective)
I'll eliminate Asoka, since we're playing as Gandhi (some wishful thinking there, since his favorite civic is FR), and I'll eliminate Monte since he's Aggressive and our Goddess is a peacenik. Flip a coin and eliminate one of the two Egyptians, and that's my guess for our six AI opponents.

If I'm right (which rarely happens) founding a religion might be difficult :dunno:
 
Good point. I would cottage the capital extensively for the bureau bonus, however. Let's hope there are other food-rich sites for GP farms nearby.
:agree: Luckily, we have some nice forested river tiles to chop cottages on. Looks like the best spots to settle to maximize the river tiles in the capitol's BFC, while keeping the two Corn in the capitol's BFC, would be in place, 1E, 1SE, or 1S. Moving the settler 1SE onto the plains hill will fog bust quite a few tiles and give us a good idea of our starting situation, although it would delay founding our first city by a turn or two. But perhaps worth it if there are othe resources nearby. The Warrior should probably go 1SW, 1W, or 1NE on the first turn.

A word of caution regarding wonder-whoring: it's early to tell, but with the special requirements (all AI alive, max 2 DOW's), and this being Emperor, we should focus on REX first. 2 irrigated corn and fast workers should help with it, and after all, we'll need a fast OxU. Looking at past SGOTMs from rival teams, we can notice that getting this national wonder fast can be more important that any world wonder. Even more so in this game.
Good point. We wouldn't want to get boxed in and have to fight our way out in order to expand if we can help it. And we need a minimum of 6 cities if we have to fall back to going for a cultural victory, and 9 or 10 would be even better. In the few test games I've tried, the economy starts to tank pretty early at this level, after about the 3rd city. But if we're going to rely on specialists and/or spies to get most of the techs, it may not be that much of an issue. Another reason to get those cottage up and growing quickly.

Also, from the game description:
I would assume a worst-case scenario, in which getting the UN built would not be the bottleneck, but instead, amassing a strong army capable of grabbing the source of fur from the barbs. Since we won't be able to tech industrialism and plastics...nukes, anyone? :nuke:
But how would our naked peacenik Goddess feel about wearing radioactive fur? :mischief:
 
Good luck, Gypsy Kings. As you seem to have the only surviving Geezer in your team, I have decided to follow your progress exclusively (i.e. I won't be looking at any other team threads).

Sounds like an interesting set-up. Who knows what surprises await you?
 
snip...
Also, from the game description:
I would assume a worst-case scenario, in which getting the UN built would not be the bottleneck, but instead, amassing a strong army capable of grabbing the source of fur from the barbs. Since we won't be able to tech industrialism and plastics...nukes, anyone? :nuke:

This has a great chance of being accurate IMO. I think we are going to need advanced military at some point. So from my perspective, a real solid start towards a domination type game may be appropriate. Early REX, with solid commerce start, 9-10 cities by 500AD and OxU before 1000AD at the latest.

So how do we get there? With our traits, we are tailor made for running specialist economy with the occasional whipping frenzy. So we need FOOD, and lots of it, the more the better. I don't think there is any way we could have too much.

Then what about the capitol? This may be our only real cottage city unless we find another ideal location. I currently favor settling on the plains hill. Even if we find another river heavy site, a super strong IW city running watermills and workshops may be a better use.

I would move our starting warrior NW, just to see if there would be any reason to move the settler in that direction. I think it will reveal the most tiles, all other moves look to be at least partially blocked by forests. Then I would move settler to the plains hill, and settle T2 unless there is a great reason to move further.

Scouting...we need to get a workboat out early IMO.
 
Good luck, Gypsy Kings. As you seem to have the only surviving Geezer in your team, I have decided to follow your progress exclusively (i.e. I won't be looking at any other team threads).

Sounds like an interesting set-up. Who knows what surprises await you?

Hey, don't I count as a surviving Geezer too... :mischief:
 
^The game Creator posting in our thread? What an honor! And since we're harbouring (pun intended) your former teammates, please provide us with a blessed save - or give the other teams those notorious cursed saves! :lol:

Back on topic...
I currently favor settling on the plains hill.
Do we care about losing 2 turns if we decide to settle in the original location after scouting the PH with the settler and don't like the currently fogged tiles to the SE? My fog-gazing indicates a hilly terrain in that area. Also, by moving we're leaving behind 6 forests which could be useful in the initial REX, and later cottages. But I can understand the power of that extra hammer in capital as well...
 
Do NOT take my opinion about settling on the hill any more seriously than any other option! It is mostly my gut reaction to seeing a fresh water plains hill available! We would save the forest we are standing on. That of course would not make up for losing 6 if there are no forests in the S>SE.
 
One advantage to settling in place, assuming that our first build is a Fast Worker, is that the FW could mine the riverside plains hill if he's built before we complete research on Agriculture.

So what should we build first in our new capitol city? Should we build a Fast Worker first, or build Warriors until the city grows to size 2?
 
One advantage to settling in place, assuming that our first build is a Fast Worker, is that the FW could mine the riverside plains hill if he's built before we complete research on Agriculture.

So what should we build first in our new capitol city? Should we build a Fast Worker first, or build Warriors until the city grows to size 2?
Warrior first is almost never the best route. Certainly Worker first I would think. First tech Agriculture - if the concensus is we aren't trying for a religion.
 
Submitted for team discussion and approval.

All we need is a plan we can deviate from, so...

How does this look for an initial draft research plan?

  1. Agriculture
  2. Bronze Working
  3. The Wheel
  4. Pottery
  5. Hunting
  6. Writing
After that most likely depends on what we discovered on our map.

Option A: Masonry if we've found Marble or Stone (with Stone, try for Pyramids or Great Wall?)
Option B: stuff needed for new cities (Animal Husbandry, Archery, Fishing, etc.)
Option C: Alphabet if we have neighbors to trade with.
Option D: Iron Working for better military units.
Option E: Polytheism & Aesthetics if we want to try for The Parthenon
Option F: <Polytheism or Meditation> and Priesthood if we want to try for The Oracle.

This assumes we do not want to try for an early religion. If we do, I'd suggest starting with Polytheism and then follow the plan outlined above.

What do you think? Let's discuss!
 
Another plan we can deviate from for team discussion...

Draft First City initial production plan...
  • Fast Worker
  • 1 to 3 Warriors
  • Settler
  • Fast Worker
  • 1 to 3 Warriors
  • Settler
  • Library
What do you think? Let's discuss!
 
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