SGOTM 11 - Psycho Bunnies

[Bede]

I enjoyed this game a lot. You guys know how to run a game.

@jb, One team has bee sleeping in the barns for a month now, or it seems like it. They hit the domination limit ca 850AD, and the rest of the gang are not far behind them. The bums are conquering the world with galleys and swordsmen. I hate differential naval movement and the Temple of Artemis!, or, why didn't I think of that!!!

But there is nothing like a little C3C love feast to get this old warhorse's champing at the bit and frothing at the mouth.

 

[sanabas]

That was a lot of fun. And I am going to find my C3 disc in time for the next SGOTM, even if it means buying a new one.

@JB, the territory in the graphs uses the same formula as territory for QSC does. i.e. it counts ocean squares as part of your territory, whereas the domination limit doesn't. I think we've got a lot of ocean in our land, which explains why our territory count is higher than others that finished the game earlier.

 

[Gyathaar]

Congrats on your victory

 

[Abegweit]

I think we've got a lot of ocean in our land, which explains why our territory count is higher than others that finished the game earlier.

The last save you see posted is the penultimate one. The difference between the last posted score and the final score is almost entirely due to the number of intervening turns. As I understand it, you took one; we took two and the others took more.

Oh, before I forget, congrats on a a clean game. The rest of us raped the AI silly.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Oh, before I forget, congrats on a clean game. The rest of us raped the AI silly.

Thanks. All us old war horses prefer that method.

 

[Abegweit]

Well, it depends on your objective. If, in some way, you want to win "fairly" against the AI, then give yourself some handicaps. It is clearly too stupid to take you out otherwise. If, however, your objective is beat other humans, then you gotta take advantage of every trick you got. That is always how Men have waged war.

What's more, on due reflection, I really don't understand this notion of playing honourably. What is honourable about taking advantage of the AI's inability to wage to war while refusing to take advantage of its inability to wage it by other means (per Klauswitz)? It may be fun to place restrictions on your your game-play (no cottages?) but I really don't understand what honour has to do with it.

 

[Whomp]

Well, it depends on your objective. If, in some way, you want to win "fairly" against the AI, then give yourself some handicaps. It is clearly too stupid to take you out otherwise. If, however, your objective is beat other humans, then you gotta take advantage of every trick you got. That is always how Men have waged war.

What's more, on due reflection, I really don't understand this notion of playing honourably. What is honourable about taking advantage of the AI's inability to wage to war while refusing to take advantage of its inability to wage it by other means (per Klauswitz)? It may be fun to place restrictions on your your game-play (no cottages?) but I really don't understand what honour has to do with it.

I think it's all where you cut your teeth. I think most on this team did it according to SG and RBC rules. It doesn't mean we didn't make mistakes along the way we made plenty (IE not building TGL) but it's what we do.

The real action is the human vs. human games imo. Exploiting the AI is easy. Exploiting humans has implications.

 

[Abegweit]

Agreed. However. I have just suddenly gotten this epiphany about RBC and SG rules, even as I was congratulating you guys for following them. To repeat, what is honourable about taking advantage of the AI's inability to wage war while refusing to take advantage of its inability to do other stuff?

This question is even more pertinent when the objective is to show how your human team can whip the AI's ass faster than any other. One of the more enjoyable parts of this scenario was figuring out new tricks (or exploits, if you prefer). New ways to take advantage of the AI's stupidity. All three of fastest finishers (and it was close in the end) worked on finding new exploits. This is exactly what you should do if you want to beat other people. If your objective to play "fairly" against a mindless machine you should indeed place handicaps on yourself.

 

[Whomp]

You're point is fair and there's no question the 3 teams showed their talent but then again you didn't have to pull along dead weight like me.

 

[Abegweit]

Don't put yourself down. You don't believe what you just said, and I don't either. As Bugs said, it was the old war horses who chose this route. I once had the honour to play with him and have often had the supreme enjoyment of reading many many other old war horse threads.

Giving yourself handicaps makes the game more interesting, especially if you might even lose in consequence. Some old war horse games actually did go down in flames. This is a lot of what made their threads such great reads. The game might (and sometimes did) end in a single turn. But seriously, does that apply here. We were six? eight? teams. Was even one ever in danger of losing?

So, I submit, that this means that RBC and SG rules don't apply. The game is to be played against other humans. You guys handicapped yourselves. As such, your game can't even be compared to the others. Yet surely comparison is the main purpose of a competition.

 

[Bede]

So, I submit, that this means that RBC and SG rules don't apply. The game is to be played against other humans. You guys handicapped yourselves. As such, your game can't even be compared to the others. Yet surely comparison is the main purpose of a competition.

Some people have a very different definition of fun. To us old warhorses "raping the AI silly" is just not fun, it is too easy! For us the real challenge came as we tried to navigate the rules of the game yet avoid anything that would "exploit" the AI's silliness.

It is interesting to note that the designers of the game have taken most of the ploys which come under the rubric of "raping the AI silly" off the table in the new game.

I confess I have not read much in the other threads but I would frankly be surprised if there were any "new" tricks employed <monkish sanctimony peeping out from under the cossack here>

 

[jb1964]

Some people have a very different definition of fun. To us old warhorses "raping the AI silly" is just not fun, it is too easy! For us the real challenge came as we tried to navigate the rules of the game yet avoid anything that would "exploit" the AI's silliness.

It is interesting to note that the designers of the game have taken most of the ploys which come under the rubric of "raping the AI silly" off the table in the new game.

I confess I have not read much in the other threads but I would frankly be surprised if there were any "new" tricks employed <monkish sanctimony peeping out from under the cossack here>

Ha! Ya, what he said!

 

[Sir Bugsy]

They are just two different ways of approaching the game. We just prefer the non-raping method.

I still thank you for your congratulations.

 

[Abegweit]

Some people have a very different definition of fun. To us old warhorses "raping the AI silly" is just not fun, it is too easy! For us the real challenge came as we tried to navigate the rules of the game yet avoid anything that would "exploit" the AI's silliness.

It is interesting to note that the designers of the game have taken most of the ploys which come under the rubric of "raping the AI silly" off the table in the new game.

I confess I have not read much in the other threads but I would frankly be surprised if there were any "new" tricks employed <monkish sanctimony peeping out from under the cossack here>

The point of an SGOTM is to play against other humans, not the AI. It's like a track event. You can decide that the only technique you will allow yourself to use in the race is jogging. You will lose to those who actually run.

If you decide not to play with winning as the objective, that's up to you. If so, I really don't see why you would play at all. But again, whatever rocks your boat...

I personally found it quite interesting to explore the kinds of tricks which might be used against a locked alliance. Whether new or not, so I thank Gyathaar for setting up a scenario in which I had to think up new things. Maybe other people knew this stuff already.. but I didn't.

As for Civ4, I am quite disappointed to see that, instead of fixing the AI, they broke diplomacy.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Merry Christmas to all my teammates!

 

[Whomp]

I concur with Bugs. It's been a great year running with you guys and I'm sure many more to come.

 

[Bede]

Best Wishes for the Season to all the old Warhorses! I hope Santa brought all of you sweet hay, dry corn and some nice leather goods!

 

[gmaharriet]

Do you suppose Warhorses would eat cookies along with their sweet hay?

Merry Christmas to my wonderful, patient friends here!!!

 

[jb1964]

Merry Christmas to all my teammates!


So nice I ripped it off from Bugs.

It's been a wonderful year and I look forward to sharing another one with my civ pals.

Best Wishes and Regards,

JB

 

[jb1964]

Just a postscript....

I was playing a game over the break and w/ a SGL I rushed the ToA. It gave me good understanding of the power of this wonder to hold onto just about any and all cities as well as have your boarders expand like a dead possum on an Alabama highway in August.

I also started wondering about the AI rapeage. Even in my solo games, for some reason, I didn't like busting the rep or being too dastardly until it was one on one. However, the number of ways to screw, and I mean really screw hard, the AI are numerous and evil.

Anyway, I like the way we played. It was fun.