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SGOTM 11 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. ForGreatJustice

    ForGreatJustice Master of the Grump

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    Sorry guys but you might have to put me on autoskip til as late as the end of June. It's the end of the school year and lots of projects and portfolio panels I'll be on until the end of June. Plus I have to write up my summer school curriculum. I'll try to follow still when I can, but even that's harder now since I hardly have preps from now on. Again sorry...
     
  2. dima42

    dima42 Prince

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    I think this means I'm up?
     
  3. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Well I can play tomorrow, or tonight (too hot and close to play anything now). But if it goes to Saturday then I will have to be swapped.
    But onto a plan, I will look at the save and get back to you all.

    Edit:
    For plan purposes,
    I see we are binary teching Aesthetics. I suppose keep to 0% until we've saved enough for 100% without running out of cash. ATM that is 7 turns at -35g.
    I see that Zara has taken a city around Red Dot in the NE. Do we want to take light blue? Is settling on the second horses worth it with the fish 2 off the coast?
    On tech, after Aesth we need Poly for Lit, but then what? Maths>Const>Engineering>Music? Or just straight to Music, then Maths?
    On units should we build a few just in case or is Zara fairly easy going?
    Turnset is still 20?

    I plan on whipping libraries where advisable, get infra up and running, and I would like to see a few more units out, just as deterrance. I would also build the Parthenon in Delhi, even shunting the Pyramids down the pecking order. I feel it's a lot more important for a cultural victory (+10 cult, Great artist, +50% GP speed).
    Are we going to self-found a religion, or are we going to try to rely on spreads. If self found then we would probably be better off going straight for music, and either beeline or bulb Theo or Philo (philo is better for Lib reasons).
     
  4. MatrixTheKitty

    MatrixTheKitty Skitty

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    ForGreatJustice - autoskip
    Brian Shanahan - up
    dima42 - on deck
    Earthling
    IdiotsOpposite - autoskip until further notice
    MatrixTheKitty
    neilmeister
     
  5. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Ah, but you see I confused dima when I looked for a skip over the weekend, but seeing as it's come back to me before then I can take it.

    As my father would say I've confusticated everyone.
     
  6. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    You dirty confusticator :nono:

    @ Parthenon. Totally agree. As soon as we can build it (we need Poly first), swap Pyramids to Parthenon and chop like crazy.

    @ Teching, I find it worthwhile to go 100% tech every few turns if you can afford it, as having lots of cash makes other AI demand it, and we have several Scientist specialists, which add beakers every turn.

    Build a few Axe's at the frontier with Zara, for defense. He has horses so we can expect chariots, so a single spearman could also pay off.

    I will have a closer look at the save later today and post some initial thoughts which can then be ridiculed & discredited :)
     
  7. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    We have 9 warriors and a chariot. This is costing us 5gpt for unit maintenance.
    There is a strong argument that if we build a few Axes/Spearmen, we should disband some warriors. We don't want to build so much military that we choke our teching, also we don't want to upgrade any warriors as it would cost way to much at this stage. So I support having a few cities build these units, but make sure you kill off some warriors. Otherwise we will be deep in the money hole.

    Be careful not to overwhip, if whipping means that good tiles no longer get worked, then you have to weigh up the pro's & con's. Currently the only buildings that are essential are Granary & Library. So don't whip anything else. If we need to control the population, use specialists!
    Having unhappy cities is not that bad a thing, as it stores potential whip power for later. For example, if Bombay grows to such a size as to have 2-3 unhappy citizens, then you can do a 3-4 pop whip losing only a single worked tile.

    We currently have 6 cities, we should aim to have 9, as this gives us the minimum amount to have a Cathedral of every religion in all 3 legendary cities. Obviously we can settle some more later to get those special resources that we need.

    The blue dot city cannot be built, as it is too close to Zara's new city, but to be honest, I think this is a blessing, as it would have been a really weak city.
    This leaves us the purple dot, white dot, the desert square between horses & incense & a few spots east of Delhi.
    The white dot is safe, as our borders restrict anyone settling there.
    The purple dot could go 1 square north, to help with developing cottages for Varanasi. It will be safe in 20 turns, when Bombay expands. No-one will get a settler there that quick, so it is definitely safe.
    East of Delhi looks very nice, but there are no food resources!. It would take forever to grow & build things. Also it could create friction with Zara.
    The spot next to the incense would be my prefered option for the next city. That incense will be essential for our religions and to trade. No point wasting the horse square by settling on it, better to turn the useless desert into something useful.

    I think we could maybe rename some cities, to make their purpose clear, and to give us a constant reminder of their purpose.
    Delhi - Leg1
    Varanasi - Leg2
    Vijay - Military?
    Bombay - GP Farm 1
    Agra - Maoi GP Farm 2
    Patal - Cash?
    Purple - Leg3?
    White - Cottage Cultivator
    Another thought for Leg3 could be Zara's capital, it looks lush! But we don't have to decide Leg3 for a long time yet.

    Thoughts???
     
  8. MatrixTheKitty

    MatrixTheKitty Skitty

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    No more than five. If you get more than five of those nine killed I will force choke you to death from halfway across the world. :p
     
  9. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    :lol: I would keep at least 6, in case of industrial accidents, from cats.
     
  10. MatrixTheKitty

    MatrixTheKitty Skitty

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    You wound me! I am injured! Oh, woe is me!
     
  11. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    For all of you awake I'm playing the game now. I will revert to this location in a few hours.
     
  12. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Ok I had a nice quiet 20 turns and did a few things.

    First off the turn logs:
    from the upload site
    Spoiler :
    Turn 120, 1000 BC: Logging Game to File: Gandhi.txt

    Turn 122, 950 BC: Tokugawa adopts Hereditary Rule!

    Turn 128, 800 BC: The Temple of Artemis has been built in a far away land!

    Turn 129, 775 BC: The borders of Agra have expanded!
    Turn 129, 775 BC: Saladin adopts Hereditary Rule!

    Turn 130, 750 BC: Galileo Galilei (Great Scientist) has been born in Bombay (Gandhi)!

    Turn 133, 675 BC: Nagara has been founded.

    Turn 137, 575 BC: You have discovered Aesthetics!

    Turn 138, 550 BC: Vijay has grown to size 6.
    Turn 138, 550 BC: Patal has grown to size 5.
    Turn 138, 550 BC: Patal has become unhappy.
    Turn 138, 550 BC: Varanasi has grown to size 5.
    Turn 138, 550 BC: Agra has grown to size 4.
    Turn 138, 550 BC: Agra can hurry Library for 2? with 17? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.

    Turn 139, 525 BC: Delhi can hurry The Pyramids for 3? with 26? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
    Turn 139, 525 BC: Vijay can hurry Barracks for 2? with 35? overflow and +1? for 22 turns.
    Turn 139, 525 BC: The borders of Bombay are about to expand.
    Turn 139, 525 BC: Gandhi has completed The Pyramids!
    Turn 139, 525 BC: You have constructed The Pyramids in Delhi. Work has now begun on a Chariot.
    Turn 139, 525 BC: The borders of Bombay have expanded!

    From my turn log
    Spoiler :
    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 120/750 (1000 BC) [21-May-2010 15:47:34]
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 16 per turn, 40 in the bank

    Turn 121/750 (975 BC) [21-May-2010 15:47:35]
    A Pasture was built near Varanasi
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 16 per turn, 56 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Patal grows to size 5
    Varanasi grows to size 3

    Turn 122/750 (950 BC) [21-May-2010 15:48:33]
    A Cottage was built near Delhi
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 15 per turn, 72 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    A Hamlet was built near Delhi

    Other Player Actions:
    Civics Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 123/750 (925 BC) [21-May-2010 15:52:12]
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 16 per turn, 87 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Vijay grows to size 6

    Turn 124/750 (900 BC) [21-May-2010 15:53:20]
    100% Research: 67 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -38 per turn, 103 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Vijay finishes: Library

    Turn 125/750 (875 BC) [21-May-2010 15:54:58]
    Vijay begins: Settler (9 turns)
    A Cottage was built near Delhi
    100% Research: 68 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -38 per turn, 65 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Delhi grows to size 6
    Bombay grows to size 5
    A Hamlet was built near Varanasi
    Agra grows to size 2

    Turn 126/750 (850 BC) [21-May-2010 15:56:51]
    Diplomacy: Zara Yaqob (Ethiopia) offers to trade Open Borders to Gandhi (India) for Open Borders
    Diplomacy: Gandhi (India) accepts trade of Open Borders to Zara Yaqob (Ethiopia) for Open Borders
    A Farm was built near Varanasi
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 13 per turn, 27 in the bank

    Turn 127/750 (825 BC) [21-May-2010 15:59:54]
    A Cottage was built near Varanasi
    A Cottage was built near Varanasi
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 13 per turn, 40 in the bank

    Turn 128/750 (800 BC) [21-May-2010 16:01:18]
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 13 per turn, 53 in the bank

    Turn 129/750 (775 BC) [21-May-2010 16:02:52]
    A Cottage was built near Patal
    A Mine was built near Delhi
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 13 per turn, 66 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Patal grows to size 6
    Varanasi grows to size 4
    Agra's borders expand

    Other Player Actions:
    Civics Change: Saladin(Arabia) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

    Turn 130/750 (750 BC) [21-May-2010 16:03:32]
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 15 per turn, 79 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Patal
    Galileo Galilei (Great Scientist) born in Bombay
    Patal finishes: Library
    A Hamlet was built near Varanasi

    Turn 131/750 (725 BC) [21-May-2010 16:05:17]
    Patal begins: Axeman (52 turns)
    A Cottage was built near Varanasi
    A Cottage was built near Delhi
    A Fishing Boats was built near Agra
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 17 per turn, 94 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Vijay
    Bombay finishes: Barracks
    Vijay finishes: Settler

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Tokugawa (Japan) towards Justinian I (Byzantium), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
    Attitude Change: Justinian I (Byzantium) towards Tokugawa (Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

    Turn 132/750 (700 BC) [21-May-2010 16:08:20]
    Bombay begins: Axeman (13 turns)
    Vijay begins: Axeman (7 turns)
    100% Research: 72 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -40 per turn, 111 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Whip anger has decreased in Delhi
    Whip anger has decreased in Bombay
    Whip anger has decreased in Patal
    Vijay finishes: Axeman
    Agra grows to size 3

    Turn 133/750 (675 BC) [21-May-2010 16:10:29]
    Vijay begins: Axeman (7 turns)
    Vijayanagara founded
    Nagara begins: Library (68 turns)
    100% Research: 73 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -47 per turn, 71 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Vijay grows to size 5
    Patal grows to size 4

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Saladin (Arabia) towards Tokugawa (Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Turn 134/750 (650 BC) [21-May-2010 16:12:51]
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 9 per turn, 24 in the bank

    Turn 135/750 (625 BC) [21-May-2010 16:15:01]
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 9 per turn, 33 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Bombay grows to size 6

    Turn 136/750 (600 BC) [21-May-2010 16:16:04]
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 9 per turn, 42 in the bank

    Turn 137/750 (575 BC) [21-May-2010 16:16:41]
    A Farm was built near Patal
    60% Research: 48 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    40% Gold: -26 per turn, 51 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Tech research finished: Aesthetics
    Vijay grows to size 6
    Vijay finishes: Axeman
    Patal grows to size 5
    Varanasi grows to size 5
    Agra grows to size 4

    Turn 138/750 (550 BC) [21-May-2010 16:17:48]
    Research begun: Polytheism (4 Turns)
    Vijay begins: Barracks (10 turns)
    A Cottage was built near Patal
    A Farm was built near Delhi
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 12 per turn, 25 in the bank

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Justinian I (Byzantium) towards Saladin (Arabia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

    Turn 139/750 (525 BC) [21-May-2010 16:20:09]
    A Farm was built near Varanasi
    0% Research: 7 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 5 per turn, 37 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Delhi
    Delhi finishes: The Pyramids
    Bombay's borders expand

    Turn 140/750 (500 BC) [21-May-2010 16:22:19]


    Now for my report:

    Turns 120-121
    Zzzzzz

    Turn 122
    Did the following with Just:

    Health for health, see no problem there for the moment.

    T123
    Zzzzzz

    T124
    Put research to 100% (aesth at 6turns, but not enough cash)

    T125
    Vijay Library>settler (no whip)

    T126
    Did the following with Zara:

    Can't see a problem here either.
    Research back to 0%.

    Turns 127-129
    Zzzzz

    Turn 130
    3 whip Library in Patali, 2 unhappy and not much good land worked.

    Turn 131
    Patali Lib>Axe
    2 whip settler in Vijay (lost 1 worked tile for 4 turns)
    GS in Bombay, move to Delhi.

    Turn 132
    Bombay Barracks>Axe
    Vijay Settler>Axe
    Research back to 100%

    Turn 133
    Vijay Axe>Axe.
    1 warrior is killed off.
    Vijayanagara is founded, in the desert between horses and incense, shortened to Nagara (problem with shortening names we'll be on Vijaynagara for ever, propose naming system of big Indian cities unused from now on).

    Turn 134
    Research back to 0%

    turns 135, 136
    Zzzzzz

    Turn 137
    Science to 60% for aesth in 1 turn

    Turn 138
    Vijay Axe>Barracks (probably should have slotted in earlier)
    Science back to 0%. Aesth in pick Poly

    Turn 139
    I triple whip the Pyramids in Delhi (4 turns left). I didn't want to lose them this late.

    Turn 140
    Delhi Pyramids> Chariot


    While doing all this I did a little exploring and found:

    I immediately named it Treasure Island, yarr. By the way I'd say we're 10 tiles from circumnavigation bonus.

    General things:
    Well were OK with everyone:

    But as you can see Toku and Sally are already enemies (good if we need to stop either)
    Our tech tree looks like:
    Spoiler :


    We're also short hunting.
    The land situation is:

    So we're good for the moment, I'd leave the next two cities until after either currency or CoL though.

    We have a Great Scientist in Delhi. I didn't want to make any choices without consulting, he can tech Maths, academy Delhi (culture), Bombay (science), or GAge.

    I have him waiting so what we decide can go before playing on.
    Also we have civics choices:

    At the moment HR and Rep are the two choices, with Rep winning.

    Thoughts:
    I think we should go Lit>Music>Curr>CoL and then choose between Philo or Theo for a self-founded religion. I don't know how viable Lib is at Emperor so I'm assuming I can't get it.
    On defense a few more axes would be nice, but without hunting we can't build spears. Maybe we should insert it into the tech path. If we build another 3 Axes I would move all the warriors into the back line, just in case.
    On wonders, Parthenon in Delhi asap, chop whip any way possible.
    Save is on the scores page.
     
  13. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Great turn Brian. I think your Pyramid whip was a good one, Pyramids are just too good, especially in a culture game.

    I agree about Representation, +3 Happiness in 5 cities, we only have 7, so this will be a big boost. With a bonus of any specialist will be doubly good.
    This goes very well with Caste System & Pacifism, which we need to tech CoL & Philo to get.

    What about Sailing next, then we can get overseas trade and build the Great Lighthouse & Maoi Statues. We have lots of forests near the purple spot, so we could chop the GL pretty quick, and currently we only have 1 inland city. As we saw in IO4, the GL adds a big boost to the economy, and we have even more coastal cities here.

    Bulb Maths
    Poly->Sailing->Currency for the economy, then CoL, Philo, Lit, Music or CS.

    Delhi will spend a little while building the Parthenon, so we don't need Lit that quick.

    BTW, Delhi needs MM to use both corn and the silver IMO.
     
  14. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Neil I took a while to decide on whipping it, but in the end it came down to ":):):):) it, I gave the AI loads of chances, might as well take it now". I really hate losing wonders with one turn to go (even the useless ones).

    I'd go for music early, simply for the Sistine, we're going with a state religion at some stage, and that is uber for cultural wins (+2 per specialist, +5 per state rel building ).

    I haven't heard from Earthling in a while, we should give him a shout, as he's active in the Civ 5 forums.

    dima you're up, sorry for confusing you.
     
  15. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Yeah, Sistine is a must, but we will need a religion first. :)

    I only suggested a tech path for the next few techs, as this will easily cover Dima's turn, and maybe Earthlings as well.
     
  16. MatrixTheKitty

    MatrixTheKitty Skitty

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    ForGreatJustice - AUFN
    Brian Shanahan - just went
    dima42 - up
    Earthling - on deck
    IdiotsOpposite - AWOL, AUFN
    MatrixTheKitty
    neilmeister
     
  17. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Has anyone heard from IO recently, I've had nothing.
    By the way has anyone looked at the statistics, there are at least 3 other teams going culture too, but noone seems to be as strong militarily.
     
  18. MatrixTheKitty

    MatrixTheKitty Skitty

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    Nope. He seems to have dropped off the face of the internet.
     
  19. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Maybe he's eloped. I'll PM him and Earthling just in case.
     
  20. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    I think only 1 other team is definitely going Cultural. The others seemed to get Oracle, which doesn't indicate much.
     

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