Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Apr 20, 2010.
Checking in. Gonna read for a while, then think for a while, and play not today.
Ok, some thoughts finally =). Obv much of this not happening in my turnset
Research DR, Edu (popped partlially), Liberalism, trade for compass/optics while on liberalism path, pop nationalism from liberalism unless someone will trade it in which case pop printing press
Delhi finishes sistine, starts taoist temple
Hindu spread to bombay
Gifting to Toku at every opportunity
Trade maps with Justinian
Madras builds spy/caravel to explore treasure island, every other noncultural city just primarily builds monasteries and missionaries
let me know if something seems off, i won't play for a day or two
We were thinking of going for Astro from Lib, normally Nationalism would be a lot better, but the thinking was we could sneak the (as yet unfound, but probably barb city) furs from under Justy's nose.
Obviously if Justy takes, or is about to take the city, we'll have to use plan B and stomp him into dust for a few turns.
Otherwise there is nothing there which plays against the variants.
Its good to see some other thinking.... Brian, Matrix & I were starting to think we were the team
@ bulbing Edu with the GS, we were thinking of maybe keeping him in reserve for Eldine, but bulbing Edu is a fairly standard move, so I am OK with that.
@ Toku, no point gifting anything to Toku if he is already at +4 fair trading. If he begs for something, then you can give him it (depending on what he begs for).
@ Monasteries, we want all monasteries in our 3 Leg cities of course (Delhi,Bombay & Varanasi), but not so much everywhere else. As long as we have a few non-legendary cities capable of producing each missionary, then that is enough. Except Confused of course, with Sistines, hopefully Sankore & Minaret, we get big bonuses for every Confused building.
@ Lib - As the instigator of the 'lets get Astro and steal Treasure Island plan', I naturally still think it is a good plan. We could have a problem executing it in time, but as long as we are 'ready to go' the turn we learn Lib, we should be OK.
If we bulb Edu, we will get to Lib long before any other Civ. As long as we have traded/learnt Compass & Optics, we can choose Astro from Lib. Have 2 galleys, 2-3 cats and 3-4 maces ready in our eastern most city. Upgrade the galleys to Galleons the turn we get Astro, load up and set sail.
Treasure Island could be a huge Red Herring of course, and the furs are somewhere else in the vast expanse of ocean, but I think we have to take that chance.
IF Justin takes Treasure Island before this, get Nationalism instead.
We need to get some workers to Calcutta to help it
a) get more production to work on Sankore and
b) get a bigger population so we can whip Sankore as soon as its available. Several other AI's have Paper, so they will probably be building it already.
The graphs on the Progress page make for some insteresting reading, especially the Power graph.
The Plastic Ducks look like they are about to stomp something.
Link to new save
Most boring turnset ever. Of note:
*Zara's researching astronomy, and the exploratory caravel won't get to treasure island before we get liberalism (although not too long thereafter). I don't really think popping astro makes sense in this game.
*We lost to Sankore, but this is no problem. I'm not entirely sure we needed to build Sankore in the first place .
*We're mostly sucking up to Toku through sucking up to Justinian. Toku is much more likely to attack Saladin/Isabella than us at this point.
*You can/should switch back out of slavery next turn.
*Islam founded in Bombay, cause we're lucky like that
*I think you should hold off on most military builds until we know what we're up against on Treasure Island. It's going to be awesome when we see some modern armor there.
I hope whoever plays next is up for micromanaging our culture multipliers . So far I built an academy and pagoda in Delhi, and a mandir in Varanasi. I'm pretty sure we're going to be short artists, so I think Hermitage should probably go to Varanasi, and Varanasi should also get priority on the rest of religious buildings. How this is actually going to be built, I don't know . Probably some combination of pop-rushing and gold-rushing.
All the AI here are pretty religion-friendly, and so it's not really clear whom we're going to need to bribe out of free religion yet...
music for compass+70gold+map to justinian
bombay shifts micro to cottages
wb far away gifted cause we have map
justinian has optics
vijay builds spy
dr done, islam founded in bombay
sistine done, delhi builds tao temple
dr+20 gold for engi to zara
dr+mus for optics+feudalism+hb to saladin
start caravel in pataliputra
islamic missionary failed to spread islam cause i'm an idiot
turn 5: nothing
agra -> confu temple
delhi -> pagoda
revolt to slavery
bombay whips islam monastery
nagara whips tao monastery
varanasi whips theatre
pataliputra whips caravel
patal whips courthouse
delhi whips pagoda
engi for 30 gold to justinian
optics for 90 gold to zara
delhi -> hindu temple
pata -> confu temple
delhi -> academy
traded maps with justinian again, nothing interesting
lost to sankore
vara whips mandir
delhi whips academy
agra whips temple
Looks good from your report, but I bet my 10 were boringer.
On the Lib slingshot, if Zara is researching then we should prioritise differently.
Blatantly copied from Matix:
ForGreatJustice - AUFN
Brian Shanahan - even boreder (especially after the Paraguay game)
dima42 - done, and bored
Earthling - Up now.
IdiotsOpposite - AUFN
MatrixTheKitty - provisionally on deck.
neilmeister - still in deep mourning after Germany.
Yep, I agree, abort Astro mission. It was a bit of a longshot. I did notice that the barb city expanded its borders, do barb cities normally do that?
Nice trades by the way. "Islam in Bombay", oh how the Civ gods have smiled on us.
I'd get Delhi onto the Minaret, pronto. We sold DR to Zara & Saladin 7 turns ago
@ Brian, at least Germany nailed the English for us......
Yeah, what the hell were you thinking trading DR without having the Minaret built first, Dima?
We better not get screwed over like we got screwed over for Sankore in IO4...
On barbs, yes if you wait long enough.
Oh dear on DR, another person I have to not look at in particular.
I was trying to be positive. At least we got some good techs out of it.
But this is why Delhi should start on the Minaret asap.
OK, I have opened the save, oh the horror:
- We have not lost Sankore, its still being built. THIS REALLY worries me. Dima, did you play on past the save??? If you did, we will need to talk to AlanH asap.
- Delhi has been massively overwhipped, we should be pop 10-12, not 6. We aren't working any mines in Delhi, because we don't have enough population!!! We are in Beauracracy, so the capital should be at max pop or as close to it as we can manage!
So, can the next player (Earthling or Matrix) please:
- Change back to Caste from slavery, MM for lots of Artists in Bombay, Agra & Patal.
- Give the pigs to Bangalore please. Bombay is size 14, and Bangalore is stuck slow growing at 2.
- We can sell Toku Aesthetics for 320g. Very old tech that everyone else has.
- Get Delhi to start on the Minaret next turn. Allow Delhi to grow at full speed, only allocating people to the mines when they are available. Losing Minaret is not the end of the world, getting Delhi back to a bigger population is more important.
His log says that Sankore was lost on turn 10. It's still building now, but it will become fail gold when enter is pressed.
Yes, just realised that it was built last turn. its in the Wonders list as being built in 685AD, last turn.
EDIT, and NO more bulbing great people. We will need everyone from now on.
btw, I disagree that we want to be building spiral minaret ahead of more religion buildings. the culture impact is minimal, and in this kind of game we are typically running much better multipliers on culture than gold in the late game. it's possible the military would make this different, but this should probably be carefully analyzed.
But we still need gold to run that culture in the first place.
Yeah, I know what you mean, but as you say, this is not a standard culture game. It is good do have a discussion about it though, as it is not a forgone conclusion.
We will almost certainly need to go conquering in order to get all of the required resources, and we can't do that without cash. Culture buildings are great, and we will certainly need to build them, but the cash from the Minaret is just that, cash. We can use it for anything: Research, Military, Culture....
You are totally right about a careful analysis, I admit that I am not that great at these things.
Looking at the save, I 'suspect' that Delhi will get to Legendary by itself, without any bombs, and that we will not have enough bombs to get Bombay & Varanasi to Legendary on the same turn. I think the stumbling block may well be the 4 GP requirement.
But this is only my gut feeling, and is probably wrong.
I think that a war on anything aside treasure island is a mistake. We need to please Isabella and Justinian actively starting pretty soon (I've already started on Justinian).
Agreed about Izzy, she has 2 of the resources. 3 civs have Ivory.
I think Justin is most likely to take treasure island, assuming it doesn't have mech inf's of course, so it is he who we might go to war with, but it is prudent to get him happy in case we don't have to war on him.
Another reason to go to war might simply be to generate GG's, as we are allowed to use these as the 4 GP.
Hey guys! I'm still alive. Unfortunately though, I have to respectfully retire from the competition. True the school year ended, but I'll be teaching summer school, and also going to be on vacation in August. It's only fair that I should simply say that it isn't fair for you guys to expect me to throw my weight around when I wouldn't be able to. I'm really sorry.
If it's any consolation I'm also bowing out of Civ4 in general, due to this busy time in my life. I'll probably be around on the forums though and if you still want an extra set of opinions I'll be happy to voice them out. Maybe when Civ5 rolls around hopefully I'll be back playing...
At any rate, it was really nice meeting and playing with you guys. I haven't checked how you've been doing though, but I wish you all luck!
Separate names with a comma.