SGOTM 11 - Team Newbie

[PaperBeetle]

My first pass at a dotmap for 'our' land...

The trouble is we have very few interesting things (i.e. food resources mainly) to plan towns around, so choosing these locations seems quite arbitrary to me. I much prefer PtW, where one's choices are determined by the intersection of the geography and the RCP.

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

I reckon we should settle our fourth city by the oysters and lake. We need to get some ships out quick to get the lie of the land. Those scouts are just not getting the job done quick enough!

 

[PaperBeetle]

The curragh only moves as fast as the scout, costs more, and can only explore a very narrow strip of territory. When our three newer scouts hit the north continent, they will eat the fog very quickly. But I think we should build some curragh to go look for another continent in the west.
I think I would recommend building the oyster town first, and then maybe the next settler goes all the way to the sheep in the east... the settler will need an escort to get there, and I believe Zimbabwe is only just building our third axe. Also, the sheep town needs a good stretch of road, and some irrigation bringing water from the southern lake to the sheep.

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

@ PaperBeetle: Are you available for lunch?

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

But a curragh gives us a better sense of the shape of the continent since it isn't waylayed by investigating other civ's empire, bonus resources and what not. Plus there aren't mountains getting in the way of curraghs.

 

[PaperBeetle]

in later 10 turns or more, we need discuss something like these:
1.where to settler the 4th citys and 5th citys.
2.if some two or more learn write, do we buy then sell to others or just keep oure research?
3.when the chockpoint need military to block, considering of barbarian.

and I have no idea for these, ask for advice:
1.does the scout should enter AI territory,or carefully walk around?
2.WHEN the first wave babarian will appear, whether it's necessary defend EVERY citys then?
3.after Bapedi build barracks, do it focus onmilitary(archer or warrior) or worker?
and the 4th and 5th city focus on what too?
4.where is the dotmap tools, I can't find it in utility forums?
regard

1.2 I'm not sure. It depends a lot on the situation at the time, but if you can get a deal that allows us to immediately start research on Philosophy then I would say yes.
1.3 Perhaps we should get a town over there soonish - town 6 or 7?

2.1 Walking on their land does wind the AI up though. Often I step in for a look at their land, and then out again on the same turn.
2.2 If we have no cash, and barbs threaten a small town with few shields in the box, it is okay to let them 'enjoy our hospitality'.
2.3 Bapedi does need a lot of worker turns (2 hill mines) but as we have the barracks, we should start on an archer. Let the worker come from elsewhere.
2.4 CivAssistII (if you don't use it, you should ! Get it from Ainwood's sig) does have a facility to add 'planned towns' to its map image, and it can show RCP distance, for what that's worth in C3C, but still I just use MS Paint...

 

[archphoenix]

I am very weak for military purpose, most of my game focus a diplomatic victory.
If I am concerned, I perfer loose city placement on our peninsula,
only productive city is concerned.
we save more settler to fertile northeast land.
and don't waste several setter found city on desert to block AI.
let AI found city, later we will claim them back

In later 10 turns, we only settle 2 citys, so It has no bifurcation at this time.

my virtual plan:
capital follow paperbeetle's spearsheet.
Ulundi always build worker, the next worker built will come to help mine goat mountain.
Bapedi after finish rax, always builds archer.
new city1 build worker,1s/turn
new city2 build axe/worker,2s/turn
after work mine goat, road, then mine grass(share with new city1), then road to new city2.
after the first archer built,the archer replace one of axe as mp and the axe follow the new settler then go to chockpoint.
max to write, if some AI has Write and we can afford, save and upload to discuss.
I will ready to play tonorrow night.

edit: this is the city placement.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/61567/city_plan_1.JPG

 

[Wardancer]

I agree completely with what you say in all respects other than the town placement. I did originally think that the sheep town would be good for town 4 (which would begin straight away on a granary). However, on reflection the grassland town needs worker turns to get it to the stage where it adds value and we have no worker turns to spare.

The workers should all be improving the settler factory (roading then mining the goat - although need to check numbers work) and therefore I favour the Oyster town as this gives us two food and two trade with no worker improvements needed. I would build an additional worker out of the town (to improve the nearby plains) and follow this with a barracks and then military units.

 

[archphoenix]

after consideration for a night, I think new city1 will found near Oyster (as paperbettle said) and the new city2 should found near sheep straightforward which would begin straight away on a granary, and login to find Wardancer has point it out all.
hail our team!

 

[archphoenix]

as expect, the write appear at turn7,4/7 of AI know,and the russia don't know myst either.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/upload...lu_1870_BC.SAV
we buy write from any AI with 5gpt,and I perfer we sell it for 70golds total priority,then some tech such as wheel.
at max we run -7 gpt and have 17 breaks,cicassist2 say philosophy need 180 breaks, so this 70 golds can support us 10 turn,considering city growth, maybe we can learn philosophy in 9 turns.
by the way, if we meet the 4th oriental civ, maybe squeeze more golds.

this is 0-7 turns log:
Turn 00(total-turn 40,2150BC)
rename Johnny Cash to Johnny Cash scout1 (sorry for name changed)
rename Bob Dylan to Bob Dylan scout2 (I used to figure.)
rename Tom Waits to Tom Waits Scout3
rename Tim Westwood to Tim Westwood Scout4
rename Zimbabwe to Zimbabwe_city1
rename Ulundi to Ulundi_city2
rename Bapedi to Bapedi_city3
worker3 e;
settler w;
Zimbabwe_city1 follow paperbettle's speadsheet.(no micromanage spoiled)
4 scout continue explore.(not much spoiled about scouts)

Turn 01(total-turn 41,2110BC)
worker1,2 e;worker3 road.
settler w;
Egpty start Oracle in Thebes.

Turn 02(total-turn 42,2070BC)
Zimbabwe_city1: axe->settler. axe wait.
Bapedi_city3: barrack to archer,
Hlobane_city4 found: start worker.
slide bar:10,0,0 -> 8,2,0(+0gpt,sum 1g),write in 17 turns.
worker1,2 road;worker3 ne,

Turn 03(total-turn 43,2030BC)
worker1,2 ne to goat;worker3 begin to mine,(18 turns,0/18 finished),
Tim Westwood Scout4 stand at upper of the chockpoint, and see a india axe,
so wait a turn to block the axe.
the just-built axe move to chockpoint.
korea now has excess wine.(and otto has excess fur).

Turn 04(total-turn 44,1990BC)
worker1,2 mine(1/18 finished),
axe matching to chockpoint meet a babarian axe.

Turn 05(total-turn 45,1950BC)
Ulundi_city2: worker -> worker, rename worker to worker4. worker4 goto mineing goat.
goat mine inprogress(4/18 finished),
axe defeat babarian axe,(1/3)
Tom Waits Scout3 comes up, so Tim Westwood Scout4 go on.see sakae babarian 2 tile away! lucky no horseman.

Turn 06(total-turn 46,1910BC)
goat mine inprogress(7/18 finished),worker4 arrived.
Zimbabwe_city1: settler->axe. settler goto sheep.
we have 4g, slide to 9,1,0.(-2gpt),write in 10 turns.

Turn 07(total-turn 47,1870BC)
goat mine inprogress(10/18 finished),worker4 mine.
2/3 axe follow settler.

to be continued.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Looks good so far. I would certainly take the trade on Writing, and use it to get Mysticism first, cash second, other tech third. Then Mysti to Russia for more tech.

 

[Wardancer]

I think that we should buy writing for 5gpt.

By my reckoning writing should cost a total of 200 beakers. I figure we have put approximately 120 beakers into writing so far and would be buying the remaining 80 beakers for 100 gold.

We would then be able to recoup approximately 70 gold of this gold and sell for at least 150 worth of techs (on the basis we get one tech from each of the other members that don't have it). We should do even better than this.

The big questions now are whether we go straight for Philosophy or go for code of laws first (evil grin).

 

[Wardancer]

Btw, Archphoenix. I can't download the save you posted - it says file not found.

 

[archphoenix]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/61567/Shaka_of_the_Zulu_1870_BC.SAV
I don't know hot to make this mistake, but this is the corrected link.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Yup, that link works.
We are only 76 beakers from Writing, so the price is not good, but still I think we should take the chance and buy it. Maybe we get some hard cash thrown in to the deal for our 5gpt?
Anyway, the danger is that the three slower civs are close to getting Writing, and do not value it highly. Still I say buy Writing, then give it to Arabia or the Ottoman for Mysti, depending whether Arabia will give some cash too, or maybe depending which one demands the least extra cash from us. Then we sell Writing twice more and Mysticism once, and should be able to get some tech for these - Russia cannot be nearly done on both Writing and Mysticism after all.

What to research after Writing? Well, if we went straight to Philosophy, we would probably get there before the AI got Laws, so Republic slingshot would be out. Monarchy slingshot may be possible, and worthwhile. Or how about the Construction slingshot? It assumes the AI gets Maths by then, and we can trade Philo for Maths and Iron. This would mean we were going to use Feudalism.
Alternatively, we could do the usual Laws/Philo slingshot to Republic. I think we would get this, unless some AI does something unexpected, or the 'missing' bloc is very strong. But do we want to be in Republic?
Oh, and if we are feeling lucky we could research to Philosophy -1 turn, and then sit there waiting for the AI to get a prerequisite tech that we need to get Republic/Monarchy/Construction.

Incidentally, as we are running negative gpt and have very little cash, does everyone know how to deal with an AI cash demand (without starting a war or losing a unit/building)? When talking to the demanding AI, click on the image of your diplo advisor (I don't remember if it is left or right click) and you go to the Big Picture, where you can change sliders to get up to +0gpt. Then exit the Big Picture and you will be back with your diplo advisor and the AI leader; "yeah sure have all my cash, I'll take it back later thanks!"

 

[PaperBeetle]

I don't know how useful this will be, but I made a copy of our continent in the editor. I had a mind to use it to figure out how we can get lots of towns doing 10spt or something... but I've not quite figured out how to do that. Anyway, this is the .biq file for use with the editor...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/50471/Newbie_zululand_sandbox.zip

 

[archphoenix]

Whose is the border that we can see at the top of the screenshot?

it'is ottoman.

 

[archphoenix]

after discuss, we should research philosophy first, without reference to sling to Monarchy or construction.
in sci game, republic is ok, but I am very afraid the 4 AI on far-away continent too power, like SGTOM10 the SUPERCHAGED BARBARIAN own a BIG continent.

continued:
Turn 07(total-turn 47,1870BC)
goat mine inprogress(10/18 finished),worker4 mine.
2/3 axe follow settler.
get Write from Egpty with 5gpts;
get Myst+25g from Arabia with Write.
get Wheel from Ottoman with Write.
get Mansony+40g from Russia with Write+myst.
Russia has HR,but we can't afford it.
we have two horse nearby.
why I leave Bronze? I want to see whether there are horse nearby, so want wheel,I want to know whether Math is researched, so Mansony, IW is absolutely researched.

Turn 08(total-turn 48,1830BC)
goat mine inprogress(14/18 finished),
Russia begin to build Oracle in Moscow.
Zimbabwe_city1: axe->rax. axe goto sheep too, one will defend to sheep city, one will block the chockpoint.

Turn 09(total-turn 49,1790BC)
goat mine inprogress(18/18 finished),
work1,2,3 road, worker4 sw;
Bapedi_city3: archer -> archer.
archer see libyan barbarian axe murge from north, goto Ulundi_city2 to wait.
setter and 2/3 axe arrived sheep.
india start Oracle in delhi.

Turn 10(total-turn 50,1750BC)
Isandhlwana_city5 found, see 25 golds in barbarian village, start ganary.
worker4 mine, 2/3 axe wait,
3/3 axe e.(does this move a mistake?)
leave archer not moving.Tom wait scout3 still wait at upper chockpoint.
we now contact 4th orient AI--Japan.

edit: you can get the save here:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm11/Team_Newbie_SG011_BC1750_01.SAV

and the roster refreshed:
Bucephalus(next)
socralynnek
PaperBeetle
Taxpayer's Money
Wardancer
archphoenix(just played)

 

[PaperBeetle]

Good stuff. It was an important turn set, and we are now in a very interesting position.
Compared to the other teams, we are neck-and-neck with both teams klarius and Shaka, in both score and territory, which I consider promising. The Pythons and Bunnies are out in the lead though - I guess because they spread out faster with a wider city placement.
Compared to our AI rivals, we are low in score, again becasue we are low in land area. We do still have the highest population though.

Anyway, we have a big opportunity available right now. I propose...
Scout 1 leaves Russian territory next turn.
The turn after, buy Riding from Egypt for 10gpt. Sell it on to Arabia and the Ottoman for Bronze, Maths, Iron and their cash. We can muster a further 11gpt from our towns to support this trade round.
Scout 1 steps back into Russian territory and pillages their irrigation. The Middle-eastern Bloc dows us.
We should have enough cash in hand to embassy with Korea. If not, take out a loan with someone from the Oriental Bloc. Give Korea Riding for war with the Middle-eastern Bloc. I nominate Korea because they are closest to the Middle-east, and so most likely to actually get attacked.
Finally, sell Riding to the rest of the Oriental Bloc for whatever cash they have left. We should end up with about 100g and no gpt debt, so we plough on through Philosophy and take a free Construction.

 

[Wardancer]

The plan is evil - and I love it.

One quibble is that it is important to DOW Russia before we move the scout back onto their territory and pillage their road. Otherwise it will count as a ROP Rape and I think should keep our ROP reputation intact for abuse later.

There is also a good congruence between this and using Feudalism as our government. I would consider Feudalism very powerful for a dom game with our weak core.