SGOTM 12 - ChokoMisfits

[AlanH]

BtS SGOTM 12 - Atonement

Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 12 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The heavens split open, heat poured over the innocents, earth spew lava in anguish, light shone over the earth for a short moment. Then darkness, despair, suffering, torment. And death. If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one. Stalin had now become Death, the destroyer of worlds. And the people of Russia turned against him in disgust. Civil war broke out and the once glorious civilization shattered as a second wave of nuclear fire rained upon the land. Mankind is thrown back to the stone age, with only small bands of isolated stragglers wandering the plains in search of city sites free from pollution. The vast knowledge collected over the centuries is all but lost, with only fragments left for use. As the last piece of modern communication equipment fails, shocking news reveals that the former enemy civilizations were not wiped out as believed. The survivors managed to reach pockets of relative low radiation to re-found their capitals. And guess what? They have not forgotten. Furthermore, rumors are that Stalin survived as well, and who knows what technology he has access to?...

The good news is that you have managed to retain the knowledge of Ecology. The bad news is that the opponents have most certainly retained advanced knowledge as well, perhaps even nuclear technology.

You are Catherine, the leader of the new Russian civilization. You have to start all over again. The earth is covered in pollution, and all other civilizations are at war with you. You must make Atonement by clearing up ALL fallout, getting rid of Stalin, making peace with ALL other civilizations, and evacuating the earth.

Thanks for this scenario go to Erkon.

Timetable
In order to avoid clashing with the release of Civ5, the game will start on September 17.

The completion deadline will be December 20.

Game Settings

The Start:


Click for a bigger image.

• Speed: Normal
• Difficulty: Emperor - but be warned. It may play a little higher that this
• Map: Standard, cylindrical, cold, low water
• Opponents: The six civilizations from SGOTM10 (Churchill, De Gaulle, Mao Zedong, Roosevelt, Gandhi, Stalin)
• Victory condition: Only space victory
• Game Options: no random events, no barbarians, no city flipping from culture, no vassal states, no goody huts. Aggressive AI and rising seas are enabled.

Starting Conditions
Almost all of earth is covered by fallout. You are in contact with all opponents, you are at war with them, and they are upset that you have nuked them. The map is not the same as in SGOTM10. You are land connected to at least one of the AIs. The AI capitals are pre-settled. All biological units have died from exposure to radiation, except your settler. The fallout will not disappear by itself, and it is not possible to settle on fallout (due to a modified BUFFY)

Goals
To win the game:

• All fallout must be cleared
• Stalin must be defeated (dead)
• All other AIs must survive and be at peace with the player when space victory is achieved.
• Teams will not be penalized for events outside the team's control, such as:
  • one AI killing the other before the team has the opportunity to prevent it
  • one AI declares war on team after the launch
  • one AI launch a nuke after the launch ....etc.
  • any fallout that may appear on unreachable terrain does NOT need to be cleaned up.

The teams are trusted to fulfill the objectives to the best of their ability, and any AI related events that prevent the fulfillment of the criteria for winning shall be described and forwarded in a PM to Erkon or me for analysis.

Awards
Laurels will be awarded to up to three teams who accomplish the winning goals fastest (Ie by the earliest in-game dates).
Wooden spoons will go to the team who finishes the game (win or lose) with the lowest score.

Notes

• Versions
  This game will be played in Civilization IV Beyond the Sword, version 3.19, using a customized HoF Mod 'BUFFY_SG12'. The installer for this special mod is available here. Unzip the downloaded file and run it to install BUFFY_SG12 into your ...\Beyond the Sword\Mods\ folder.
  
  If a later BtS patch is released during this game you will NOT be able to use it to play. You will need to complete this game in BtS version 3.19 before updating your copy of BtS, or create and update a separate copy.
  
  Mac players can only join in if they are able to run the Windows software on their system.
  
• Rules and Procedures
  Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
  
  All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.
  

Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

Good luck .... You might need it

 

[JerichoHill]

Team Choko-Misfits
Team History
Team Misfits has been around for multiple SGOTMs. Same for Team Chokonuts. Sadly, both teams suffered attrition due to the rumored espionage of the X-Team. Swearing revenge, the survivors became the Choko-Misfits. Chokonuts, having been plagued with the Wooden Spoon in SGOTM 9 and 10, clearly stated their desire to avoid a three-peat. This accomplished, we seek a top half finish this time around.

Previous SGOTM Finish - 8th out of 13th


Team Roster

Jerichohill
Ianw1610 IS UP
Sun Tzu Wu IS ON DECK
Ozbenno
Haphazard1
McArine
Sleepless
Mighty Dwaarf (SKIP)
ArcadicGamer (SKIP)


General Team Rules

1) Have Fun
2) Turnsets have a 24 hour "Got it" notification. Upon notifying, please post a Proposed Turnset Thoughts / Plan.
3) Play when it is appropriate.
4) Participate in discussions, all thoughts welcome, no idea is too crazy!

Early game suggestions:

1) We should spend plenty of planning Time on the first few moves.

2) It is always good to micromanage for that extra edge, but its critical to do so in the Early Game.

3) Try thinking several moves ahead; a spreadsheet or pencil and paper are great aids.

4) A test save that simulates the starting position can help us evaluate the alternates of Early Game strategy, tactics and logistics.

Suggestions that apply to all Game phases:

1) Have Fun, but achieve the earliest Win possible.

2) Focus on doing what is required to get Laurels; Ignore everything else as the Distraction it is.

3) Read the Plastic Ducks and One Short Straw's SGOTM-11 Team Threads to understand what it takes to get Gold or Silver Laurels. The Plastics Ducks in particular really know the Game well and applied themselves efficiently to the task of achieving the #1 Game.

4) There's usually no Optimal Strategy, Tactic or Logistic in Civilization IV; there are a few rare exceptions ... like the best basic Strategy for a Tiny, Marathon, Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory.



Post Reserved For Team Summary, Scheduling

 

[JerichoHill]

Monitoring of Individual Game Rules

To win the game:

* All fallout must be cleared
* Stalin must be defeated (dead)
* All other AIs must survive and be at peace with the player when space victory is achieved.
* Teams will not be penalized for events outside the team's control, such as:
o one AI killing the other before the team has the opportunity to prevent it
o one AI declares war on team after the launch
o one AI launch a nuke after the launch ....etc.
o any fallout that may appear on unreachable terrain does NOT need to be cleaned up.

General Strategy Plans

Opening Strategy Summary

Starting Plan  Research Order (Turn Learned)                                                   Work  Cows  Gold  Fish    War    Granary  Library      (At Turn 60)  Health  Hammers  Coins
Hap 1            Fish (8) BW (22) AH (39) Sail (49) Wh (54)                                    2@50  1@52  N/A   2@36
Mc 1             BW (17)  Fish (22) AH (34) Wh (42) Pot (50) Writ (57)                         2@37  2@45  2@54  2@48   1@51    1@58

Specific Targets, and Dates Accomplished

Information on World Leaders, which is a summary of what we know about the leaders and their tech thresholds, tech trading rules, war weariness rules, etc.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9714885&postcount=133

Short Overview
Settled 2N 1E (as we found out, on horses). on turn 2. Strategy continues to be to get peace ASAP and primarily deal with Gandhi for tech. We are wary of any Stalin friendly units as it is apparent Stalin has nukes. Worked on getting our capital city up as quickly as possible with 2 cows and 2 gold and 2 fish.

Turnsets
Turnset 1 - Jerichohill - Founded our Capital
Turnset 2 - Ianw1610 - Built a warrior, got our city up and running
Turnset 3 - SunTzuWu - Scouted, spotted DeGaulle's borders
Turnset 4 - Ozbenno - 1 turn from starting the Oracle
Turnset 5 - Haphazard1 - 1 turn from finishing Oracle
Turnset 6 - Sleepless - Got Peace with Gandhi
Turnset 7 - Mcarine -Met England's SoD. Yikes
Turnset 8-1 - Mighty Dwaarf - Alpha + Monarchy for Civil Service for 2nd Slingshot
Turnset 8-2 - Mighty Dwaarf - Peace with Roosevelt and Churchill
Turnset 9 - JerichoHill - Built an Army. Held off Degaulle
Turnset 10 - Ianw1610 - Got alot of maps, prepped for war
Turnset 11 - Sun Tzu Wu - Started the War with Degaulle
Turnset 12-1 - Sleepless -Founded St. Pete

Turnset 12-2 - Sleepless - Circumnavigated the world
Turnset 13 - Ianw1610 - Got Economics First! Found Stalin
Turnset 14 - JerichoHill- Alot of MM to Physics, Gandhi and Churchy are at War
Turnset 15 - Sun Tzu Wu - Focused on Spies, traded Astro
Turnset 16 - Ozbenno - Built the Taj, GOLDEN AGE! REVOLUTION!
Turnset 17 - McArine - Founded Fishclam and got us Corporation!
Turnset 18 - JerichoHill - Traded for Steam Power, built airships
Turnset 19-1 - Sleepless - Churchy Dowing DeGaulle?
Turnset 19-2 - Sleepless - Nope. Dow'ed US!
Turnset 19-3 - Sleepless - And now he wants peace.
Turnset 19-4 - Sleepless - And he gets it. Onto space.

Oh, and Stalin has been killed. Alot. Like. He is dead.

Turnset 20-1 - Sun Tzu Wu-Gandhi and Roo having fallout trouble
Turnset 20-2 - Sun Tzu Wu- Completed Apollo.
Turnset 20-3 - Sun Tzu Wu- AI using 1 out of 4 workers we gift to clear
Turnset 20-4 - Sun Tzu Wu- Fallout clearing better
Turnset 20-5 - Sun Tzu Wu- Concentrating on fallout clearing
Turnset 20-6 - Sun Tzu Wu- more fallout
Turnset 20-7 - Sun Tzu Wu- Apparent we must go to war to finish clearing the fallout
Turnset 20-8 - Sun Tzu Wu- Now DOWing on all AI to finish the job
fallout.




--At this stage we're realizing that the AI is reeeeaaallllly slow to improve the fallout situation.

 

[JerichoHill]

Turnset Summaries

Jerichohill founded our first city 2N 1E of starting spot, on what would be horses. Researched Fishing then Animal Husbandry.

We obtained the following information on our opponents

America - Roosevelt - Industrious/Organized - favors Mercantilism; adopted Representation, so started with Constitution or Pyramids
China - Mao - Expansive/Protective - favors State Property (already adopted, so has Communism)
England - Churchill - Charismatic/Protective - favors Nationhood (not adopted, so has something other than Nationalism? Or just not switched yet?)
France - DeGaulle - Industrious/Charismatic - favors Nationhood (already adopted, so has Nationalism)
India - Gandhi - Spiritual/Philsophical - favors Universal Suffrage; has Alphabet
Old Russia - Stalin - Aggressive/Industrious - favors State Property; has military power (presumably)

First Peace was with Gandhi.

 

[haphazard1]

Thanks for getting the initial posts up, JH!

We are now open for business. Anyone have any ideas how we should actually play this thing?

 

[ianw1610]

Checking in , and thanks JH for taking on the initial posts - just edit the posts when something changes, like I did last time!

I hear from somewhere that beelining Civil Service is a good idea...

City-placement... I was thinking City 1 for 1NE of the Settler, to leave 2S of the Settler free for City 2 for the future, but I'm sure we can discuss!!!

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

How well a Team does in the Game depends a great deal on how well the Early Game is Played.

Early game suggestions:

1) We should spend plenty of planning Time on the first few moves.

2) It is always good to micromanage for that extra edge, but its critical to do so in the Early Game.

3) Try thinking several moves ahead; a spreadsheet or pencil and paper are great aids.

4) A test save that simulates the starting position can help us evaluate the alternates of Early Game strategy, tactics and logistics.

Suggestions that apply to all Game phases:

1) Have Fun, but achieve the earliest Win possible.

2) Focus on doing what is required to get Laurels; Ignore everything else as the Distraction it is.

3) Read the Plastic Ducks and One Short Straw's SGOTM-11 Team Threads to understand what it takes to get Gold or Silver Laurels. The Plastics Ducks in particular really know the Game well and applied themselves efficiently to the task of achieving the #1 Game.

4) There's usually no Optimal Strategy, Tactic or Logistic in Civilization IV; there are a few rare exceptions ... like the best basic Strategy for a Tiny, Marathon, Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory.

General Comments:

In my opinion, the best reason to play SGOTMs is to learn to be a better Player and have fun, but Winning a Laurel would be good too, especially the Yellow Gold One.

Which Team in SGOTM-11 had the most fun?

Above all, don't forget to have fun!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Cleaning Fallout takes a lot of Workers, so we will need vast numbers of them.

At the moment, I favor the Capital 2-N and 1-E of the Settler's current position:

1) Build two Work Boats while growing the City slowly

2) Net the Fish and Clam

3) Quickly build several Workers

4) Build a Settler

5) ...

We should build a test save that mimics the initial position and test several initial strategies to see which one will support a cluster of Cities on the visible Land with the most important Plots cleaned of Fallout, like the Gold Plots, so we can start building and working Gold Mines.

As Catherine, we are Imperialistic, so we should be working maximum Hammers while building Settlers for the +50% Hammer bonus for Settlers.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[haphazard1]

Cleaning Fallout takes a lot of Workers, so we will need vast numbers of them.

We will need a lot of workers, but we have to make sure we have enough military and infrastructure as well. We are starting at war with everybody in the world, after all. More seriously, we may have an AI close by, and could face early attack.

At the moment, I favor the Capital 2-N and 1-E of the Settler's current position:

We can not settle on fallout, so our choices are 2N1E or on one of the forests. I think 2N1E is clearly superior, as it will allow us to improve the seafood (the only non-fallout resources around) and save the forests to be worked for food and hammers.

In fact, 2N1E seems so obvious a choice that I expect to find we have settled on a resource or some other drawback. This site does cost us a turn moving, but any valid site other than in place (which would be a terrible choice) will cost the same.

1) Build two Work Boats while growing the City slowly

We will want the seafood improved ASAP, to be certain. We can then use those tiles for growth and building workers.

4) Build a Settler

We should probably think very carefully about building settlers, as valid (non-fallout) settling sites which can grow without lots of worker turns invested may be very scarce. Some early exploration would probably be wise.

We should build a test save that mimics the initial position and test several initial strategies to see which one will support a cluster of Cities on the visible Land with the most important Plots cleaned of Fallout, like the Gold Plots, so we can start building and working Gold Mines.

Agree that a test save will be crucial. The gold mines will be important to get online, but let's not ignore cleaning up the cows. We will need the food and hammers they will provide.

As Catherine, we are Imperialistic, so we should be working maximum Hammers while building Settlers for the +50% Hammer bonus for Settlers.

I disagree, actually. As imperialistic, we should work max food and whip our settlers to get the maximum hammer bonus. We can run some tests once we get a WB save, but my experience with imperialistic is that whipping settlers is extremely effective.

 

[ArcadicGamer]

Checking in! Looks like an interesting game for sure. We should definatly get a test save of our starting area to get a feel for how many workers we'll need to start the game.
I would suggest moving the settler 2E then N NW to settle. There's plenty of good areas for 2-3 cities on the initial landmass.

 

[JerichoHill]

1) 2N 1E is the obvious city settlement site. I think that's a pretty strong indication that we go there.

2) I would propose that our first build to be a workboat.

3) I would propose that we prioritize workers / food resources before research.

4) I'd like to see us have say, 2 or 3 workers popped out, then a settler, so at least we ensure city#1 is working all resource tiles and we can move to clearing resource tiles for city 2. Those should be first priority.

5) Yeah, we're at war but I doubt we'll see someone close


Let's set a target date of Sunday to work through our test saves. I'll assume that the first 20 turns will be umm, easy, and take those. since I'll settle, somewhere, and build a workboat.

 

[Sleepless]

Well I'll try again as lost my first attempt yesterday. So Sleepless siging in.

Agree 2N 1E as first site. Not sure of starting techs though know hunting is one but if we don't have fishing that should be the first. Then build workboats/workers. Somehwere along the way we need to get a warrior(s) out and with luck maybe get a worker or 2.

 

[haphazard1]

Our starting techs are Ecology, Hunting, and Mining. (Info from the recent WB file editing discussion in the rules thread.)

This gives us a choice of what to build while we research Fishing. Hmmm...warrior for some early exploration? Start the worker and interrupt it for the WB? Other? I need to set up a test save and try a few variations.

 

[JerichoHill]

I think the extra information from the warrior outweighs any pre-build of a worker. We'd want to build workers when we have the boats up as they'll build much faster. Comparative advantage

For instance
A warrior requires 15 hammers while a worker requires 60 hammers plus food. With a 2NE 1E start, we'll have 2 Hammers and 2 extra food.

Build Warrior 2/15 or 13% completed per turn (7.5 turns).
Build Worker 4/60 pr 1/15 or 7% completed per turn (no growth of city)

When we bring the first boat online, we get 5F and 2H extra
Build worker then at 7/60 or 12% a turn.

Bust out 2 warriors then workers and the workers complete with 9F, 2H min, much faster rate. for turn spent.

If we want to maximize out speed per turn, bust out the warrior first.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Hi guys, glad to be bakc on board the Chokomisfit express.

Initial thoughts, the stated spot as mentioned is a massive stand out, may even get lucky and get more seafood in northen tiles of BFC.
One early problem will be lack of hammers, until we can clear fallout from the cows, mines etc.
The more I look though the more the tile 1NE makes me wonder if that is meant to be the better spot. Ok we lose fish but gain rice, obviously a downgrade. However would allow us to mine the GH 1N as this is clear of fallout straight away. By the way, does the lack of fallout in anyway suggest that it could be a resource tile like a lack of trees would suggest???

Either way I think Fishing-BW for first techs, allow boats and then slavery/chops.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Lots of good Early Game ideas! We need to decide which strategy is the best. That is where the test save can help a lot.

Do we have a volunteer to create a test save?

We will be playing at a huge disadvantage without a test save, since none of us have had to start at War with all Civs and had to clean Fallout from the vast majority of Plots, starting in the "Ancient" Era.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[haphazard1]

I can put some time into making a test save Friday or Saturday. I was going to be assembling my new computer for Civ V, but one part has been delayed in shipment. So it looks like I will have time.

But if anyone else wants to build a test save as well, that would be good. Always better to have more options.

 

[JerichoHill]

At the 2N1E Spot, remember to send the workboat to the FISH first, as its 1 more food than clams when boated.

I've started at war before. Just play "Permanent War' except in this case we can sue for peace. There is little chance we've been placed near an AI with hostile units, and the AI while even at war wont be sending military units out for a bit, so we have a few turns with which to build up our city.

I can't build a test save, given I have husbandly duties to perform tonight. It's our date night =) I think we're watching a movie.

 

[haphazard1]

OK, since the saves are officially available I opened up the game to take a look. What a mess!

A few items to note:

- We are at war with everyone, including Stalin the Despicable. We have penalties for declaring war on everyone, and for nuking everyone. So that is -5 with everyone, plus another -3 for the current state of war. So we are starting out at -8 with everyone. Also, everyone refuses to talk.

- Gandhi knows Alphabet. This is going to be a priority tech for us, so we can learn what advanced techs everyone may have retained from the old world.

- Someone (probably Stalin) has a military power of 230000! The rival average is 47333, which puts the 6 opponent civs at 284000 total. That gives the other 5 54000, or a bit over 10000 apiece. Not too bad, really. But that 230000 civ...that much military power could represent all kinds of ugly surprises.

- One thing we will need to do immediately on T0 is decide how to allocate our available EP. The various AIs all start with contact only with us, so we are going to get everyone's full EP against us. At least until the AIs start meeting one another.

I am working on building a test save, although it probably will not be ready until tomorrow. As AlanH reminded us all in the other threads, please be careful about saves -- do not make any moves in the real save if you are not the active player! And if you are the active player, be careful as well if you are planning to test something -- make 100% certain you test in the test save.

I will leave some signs in my test save reminding that it is a test save. Hopefully that will help avoid any unpleasantness.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I've started at war before. Just play "Permanent War' except in this case we can sue for peace. There is little chance we've been placed near an AI with hostile units, and the AI while even at war wont be sending military units out for a bit, so we have a few turns with which to build up our city.

No worries about AI with hostile units, since no AI starts with any biological units.

However, no one has started a Game with Fallout that must be cleaned, can't be settled on, or Fallout that never dissipates.

Could the huge amount of power be Stalin with a huge stock pile of Tactical Nukes and ICBMs (neither of which are biological units, as Erkon calls them).

Sun Tzu Wu