SGOTM 12 - Ivan

[I. Larkin]

0 "460 AD"*"" Wake troops in Maya land and move North.
Declare to Romans and reduce Lux. Stop Workers near Kyoto and send to Maya.
Disband MI and Pop-rush harbor. Set Kyoto back to 2-turn worker factory.
Make Exlorer from OPOTO. Trade with Scandinavia.
IBT ""*"Nothing interesting"
1 "470 AD"*"" Make MA vs Rome with Korea.
Send explore to Korea.
IBT ""*"Rome unload 4 Legions near Deli.
2 "480 AD"*"" Kill Romans. Send 1 Musketeer "to upgrade".
Make double MA with Persia vs Netherlands and Rome, [In naive hope to finish Rome soon].
IBT ""*"Roman Galley attack Dormon and sank. "
3 "490 AD"*" Sink Roman galley.
IBT ""*"Newton - Knight" Metalurgy in 3 turn. Persia send off explorer. Persia lost Iron. That means that Dutch are too strong... France demand Ivory. Send her away. Rome wants to talk. No, thanks.
4 "500 AD"*"" Worker works (Forest-cut irrigation) Bought Dyce from Sumeria.
IBT ""*"Nothing at all!"
5 "510 AD"*" Trade Tehc to Babylon 24 gpt and Persia 8 gpt.
IBT ""*"Otto Spears go to North to Cuzco. "
6 "520 AD"*"" Continue work Metalurgy next turn, but no way to get money. Nobody have Banking.
IBT ""*"Dutch Galley appear."
7 "530 AD"*"Relocate troops to protect Thebes.
IBT ""*"Dutch unload"
8 "540 AD"*"Kill Dutch sword and spear. Trade to Hitties.
IBT ""*"Nothing interesting"
9 "550 AD"*"" Trade with Mongol. Problem is that we have negative gpt and no more troops free support. Joined some workers.
IBT ""*"Korea landed near Veli. Ligoniers go North."
10 "560 AD"*"" Banking in 1. Sci 90%. Still have negative gpt. Disband Explorer in Thebese.Galeons in Deli next turn. Prepare to landing. Move all sci faces at F4 screen. Make embassy in Babylon. Trade Viking smth. 2 gpt
IBT ""*" Got Banking. Go to Big picture. F1 set Sci 0%. Trade from Franse Metallurgy for Music Theory, Ma vs Dutch, and 36 gold. Trade and gift Babs tech for politness and MA vs Dutch. Trade and gift Ottos, Germany, Hitties, Greeks. Babs, Greeks, Korea, and Ottos got Medicine, Germany got Steam and Sumer Nationalism. Trade medicine to Otto for all I have + 32 gpt. Trade all I have + 24 gpt for Steam. Sumer do not want to trade nationalism no matter what. Gift to Russia. They got Medecine. No use. Hesitate about Persia.
Trade Coal to Germany for 10+17 gpt. Trade Steam to Otto for 32 gpt. Trade all lux for wine from Babs.
Decided to hit "Enter". Got Nationalism. Sanitation in 7
11 "570 AD"*"Unload near Rome. Upgrade to Rifle. Draft and diband in Deli. As I understood draft 2 times less harmeful then pop-rush, but have the same effect. Set pre-builds for Hospitals.
IBT ""*"Rome Counter-attack. Kill Musketeer, wounded 2 knights and redlined Elite AC "
12 "580 AD"*"" Attack and capture Rome. It have all but Corthouse, 1 worker, 3 resistors. Now have 3 opportunities for IW sure in Capital. All elite won but no GL. Draft in Bombay and load Conscript and AC to Galleon. Vet Rif redy to load next turn. I think it is no problem to hold Rome and capture Veli.

 

[I. Larkin]

1
Seems like we were really unlucky getting techs from AI. But have hospitals in 6.

2 After hospital go electricity to be able to irrigate everywhere then RP to get fast workers, infantry and arties. The scientific method to get wonder time that to get Atomics theory and electronics for free.

3 All Roman forces seem to be close to us, Could sail around and stab them in the back. We will lose our WH but we won't lose lot of units.

4 Why at war with Dutch? I thought we we're going after Peria and team up with everyone else. You didn't trade with Persia so they won't get rifles for a while.

5 Coloseums are pre-builds for hospitals.

6 If we use draft option we must land them on a mountain otherwise they still have good chance of losing. Don't really like to use them all together.

7 We can change some citizens to get more shields without dropping science rate.

8 We can still get some gpt for music theory.

9 Why can't we trade maps?

1 Ineed (see turnlog)
2 We almost have no problem with that. But Electricity is obvious choise for Sci Method and R parts.
3 Exactly. 1 Rifle may hold the Rome and 2 Galeons may bring 8 MI LB Knigths and Rifle to Veli and take it i 1 go.
4) Idea was to make Persia weaker. It works good. May be too good.
5) Sure. Essential point is to go to Constantinople IBT and change Bank to Hospital.
6 Conscript better in the City, Vet to land, even at GL. As I wrote draft and disband better then pop-rush.
8) Yes, and next turns look for trade. AI system come out of equilibrium, so more opportunities come soon.
9) AFAIK we need navigation for that.

 

[nerovats]

Drafand disband would work, hadn't tought of that.

 

[nerovats]

Looks like we lost some players or is everyone on holiday?
Will wait couple more days if no one posts a got it I'll take it monday.

 

[I. Larkin]

Agree. Let do it in a regular way.
Our Roster, as it was initially is :
Ivan
Nitfan
nerovats
glenmetz
Automated Teller.

Now order is the same. Let have 48 for "got it" and 48 hours to play scheme. (If in between turn-set you will see that you need more put sav at server and say clear when (and if) you wish to continue). If after 48 hours players who is "up" does not appear then player "on deck" take the save and play immediately, like he was "up."
If player ""on deck"" does not show up as well in 24 hours after first 48, next player take save without discussion.

Unfortunately, I (we) did not work out strategy, that will allow finishing this game fast. If our rate will be the same as 4 weeks before we will play until August.

About the save I left. Probably hospital in Teo not necessary because it has strong overlap with Constantinople. Obviosly, Constantinople needs full power. Probably Teo may build something else (knights?) and draft Conscripts to have Hospital in Thebes sooner. Thebes also needs full power.
If we get GL, we, obviously will use it for Iron Work at Constantinople.
Next target after Rome is Persia, as we discussed before.

 

[nerovats]

We'll have to wait out the MA's. Hope teh Dutch will lose in a couple of turns. But will need to focus on Persia. If Dutch prove to be really resilliant we could pick of another easy target waiting for the MA's to end. Or do we want to help and finish Dutch ourselves?

Do we want to gift the scientific civs IA stuf so they don't waist turns on tech we already have? Not sure about leader, maybe better to stop play if we get one.

 

[I. Larkin]

I made combined MA, so if (when) we finish Rome our deal with Persia will gone automatically. May wait AT's thought about leader (in advance) but I think IW is the best option. Not sure about gifting Techs. My intuition says, that better to have 1-2 leading civs, that will trade techs around and give us gpt.

 

[nerovats]

Well I gues I'm up again. AT last signed in the 26th of march (that's 2 weeks), glenmext and niftan even longer ago. Will play now.

 

[nerovats]

pre-turn
get some extra gold from greece for Music theory
IBT
Silk deal runs out, renew for MT and ivory
Lose knight to Rome, they are sending even more units over
590AD
retreat all units to Rome, send the almost healty one to galleon to land behind enemy lines
5 cities about to riot, use specialists
IBT
Romans just move around. Scandinavia apperas to have landed troops
600AD
Copan court->market
pillage roads with dromons, romans can't get home in 1 turn now
IBT
renew furs deal with greece for steam, we get 35gpt
overlooked workers near Rome horse just makes it around and captures 2 workers, 1 killed
610AD
use elite to kill the horse and get leader!
Claim worker too and send leader to Constantinopel
land 8 units outside Veii, unfortunately the hill is taken
Give Mongols currency for 17 gold
Give Zulu curency for 9 gold
give Russia steam for 13 gpt
IBT
Lose knight, but kill 2 units of Rome and get an elite
620AD
Shanghai duct->uni
Attck Veii lose 1 knight kill 4 legionaires capture Veii, it just got a harbor and 1 pop
Veii->court
Start to send troops to Persia, they are still paying us gold for 9 more turns. Will have to wait for that deal to end.
Get WM 1 gpt and 28 gold from russia for TM and incense, that's odd. I made this adviser said it would be ok, so i click will you accept and she refuses. Give her spices as well. We can see the world
give some AA techs away for some gold, and making friends.
IBT
Babylon want MPP, I give TM for a WM
630AD
moving
IBT
Contact America, give education for 13 gold
640AD
Medicine ->Electricity (10)
Change all size 12 cities to hospitals accept Kyoto
Const hospital->IW (use leader)
upgrade some knights
650AD
Cuzco uni->knight
Const IW->granary (1 turn)
give France Steam for Navigation WM 11 gold and 4 gpt

No more time now. Just 6 more turns before we can attack Persia. By then we should have a nice army in place. 20 units and quite a few dromons for bombard.

 

[nerovats]

To make agreement about the civs to aid, I'd say France and Greece as they seem to be strongest researchers now. We couldtry and manipulate things so Greece will claim their island. After Persia we can take last Dutch city an the claim the rest of island, except for Babylon as they are scientific. After we're done with most workers I'd still like a barracade with 2 rifles/infantry in it on the choke towards Korea. After hospitals we need markets for happiness.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

hey guys.

I am so sorry about my time on this. I have some hope of things letting up in a week or so (after taxes are done)

 

[I. Larkin]

I am back to my desk. Have not seen sav yet.
As I understood Sanitation->Electricity.
Did we trade with Babylons?
I think there is no reason to wait end gpt with Persia.

 

[nerovats]

If it won't we can attack in 2 turns. Troops are near their territory. I'd claim the entire island accept for sceintific civs.
Maybe we can get Koyoto to a 1 turn WF.
@AT good to see your back, could use some extra thoughts here.

 

[I. Larkin]

Looked at save. OK in first approximation. However some trades are missing Babylons and greeks offer a good gpt for Saniation /navigation. Looking for a future better not to trade optional Techs, but for some Civs it is OK, I hope. I don' t think that we need Hospital in Teotchilian. Better in Kyoto and Teotchilian may be Worker Factory instead. It is much more efficient to put worker in strong Cities like Constantinople, Tenotchilian, Delhi rather then build hospital/universities in weak ones.
I think "glenmetz up" is over and Automated teller may start analize save assuming that he will play it {I wait it sooo long...}. in addition to trade i mentioned, I think we may start war with Persia as soon as possible, 1 -2 turns say. Dutch and Hitties will be next targets.
Change Corthouse to Market in Chichen_inza, forest cut NEXT turn.

 

[I. Larkin]

Well, I don't understand what is going on. Nerovats' post was 130 hours ago and no progress since then and very little discussion about. Nobody comments my post 6 April, where I assume "normal" rule for playin succession game. It looks that only me and nerovats have a mood to continue. What do you think that only we two will play by defult and if somebody (AT, Nitfan, glenmetz) wish play for sure in between us he well say about it clearly?
If AT will not appear I will continue tomorrow and if nerovats agree he will be next after me.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

sorry - I didn't mean to imply I could play soon. I hope that I might late next week. I feel bad about this, but work has been painful in recent months.

 

[nerovats]

Yes, let's just do it like that. We need to at least try to get 2 trunsets done a week. So if no one claims it with 48 hours Ivan and me will play. To bad it works out like this, but let's finish it, just the 2 of us if neccesary.

 

[I. Larkin]

sorry - I didn't mean to imply I could play soon. I hope that I might late next week. I feel bad about this, but work has been painful in recent months.

So, will you take 460 AD save and play "now" or I will play "now" and you sometime after?

Sorry - not at least until the weekend of April 21st. I have taxes to do

OK, will play today-tomorrow.

 

[nerovats]

We're at 650AD (just to make sure).

 

[I. Larkin]

We're at 650AD (just to make sure).

Yes, I played yesterday from 650 AD till 690AD, killed Persia and made rate to 666 bpt. (To have Electricity 1 turn sooner). To get this I joined 7 workers to Constatinople, 2 to Teno and 4 to Delhi. My calculations showed that it is profitable. At the same time I got strange result, that in Cities, that make less then 3 bpt per Labor (and it is majority of our Cities) better not to build Hospitals, but use these Cities as Scientific Farm. Probably I will spend 1 more day to sort out this "paradox".
Edit: Another paradox: Why bother to build RR at all? It takes 6 turns and produce only 1 fpt extra. It will have an effect only in remote future... In general, optimization of build-up extriamly tough problem...