SGOTM 12 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
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BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Well played, so we've got the GLH !
Funny how Churchill still hasn't met anyone...
We should be able to know who is where, by now.
De Gaulle : West
Mao : West, behind De Gaulle.
Churchill : South west, south of De Gaulle and Mao. Those first 3 AIs are very close to the gems sites... Macemen may go a long way...
Roosevelt : Other landmass ? West of Mao.
Gandhi : Other landmass ? West of Mao.
Stalin : Isolated ? To the south east ?
Funny how Churchill still hasn't met anyone...
We should be able to know who is where, by now.
De Gaulle : West
Mao : West, behind De Gaulle.
Churchill : South west, south of De Gaulle and Mao. Those first 3 AIs are very close to the gems sites... Macemen may go a long way...
Roosevelt : Other landmass ? West of Mao.
Gandhi : Other landmass ? West of Mao.
Stalin : Isolated ? To the south east ?
Excellent news, our wonder gamble paid off.
Mao adopting Buddhism is another one, he will be Gandhi's worst enemy soon. We don't need to gift any tech.
Want to do another 10 turns? the active players of our team are kind of thin, we could do 20 turns of set for the 2nd round.
Stalin could be thrown in a very small island without coastal access.
Mao adopting Buddhism is another one, he will be Gandhi's worst enemy soon. We don't need to gift any tech.
Want to do another 10 turns? the active players of our team are kind of thin, we could do 20 turns of set for the 2nd round.
Stalin could be thrown in a very small island without coastal access.
Aye, that was my first thought, no need to gift anything to Gandhi.
Gandhi has a natural -4 against Mao (peaceweight).
Mao has a natural -6 against Gandhi.
Meaning Gandhi is about at -5 with Mao atm... the same as us! In 5 turns Gandhi should be willing to OB and trade.
I don't mind doing 10 more turns, I've been done a test to circa t100 so it wouldn't be much more.
Tech path?
Pottery>BW>MC>Machinery (unless Gandhi acquires Aesthetics)
Goals?
Fastest island city or scout first with Galley?
This would mean sending 2 workers to the galley right as it is produced. That's one of the workers around marble city and the new one Moscow is working on.
Anything else I'm not thinking of right now?
Gandhi has a natural -4 against Mao (peaceweight).
Mao has a natural -6 against Gandhi.
Meaning Gandhi is about at -5 with Mao atm... the same as us! In 5 turns Gandhi should be willing to OB and trade.
I don't mind doing 10 more turns, I've been done a test to circa t100 so it wouldn't be much more.
Tech path?
Pottery>BW>MC>Machinery (unless Gandhi acquires Aesthetics)
Goals?
Fastest island city or scout first with Galley?
This would mean sending 2 workers to the galley right as it is produced. That's one of the workers around marble city and the new one Moscow is working on.
Anything else I'm not thinking of right now?
Have you tried to send 1 worker (from silver) to clean the fallout on the northern island and produce the settler from SP, this will save quite a few worker turns for improvement in capital, but delay the 5th city for 3 turns. Not sure how much commerce will be lost since I have not run any test after GLH. Sending a worker to the hill 1st and the missionary to scout a little bit eastern to see if there is better site nearby.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Do you plan to start a Granary in Moscow after the worker is done, Kossin ?
I'd have no complaints with that. We really need a Granary to grow Moscow past 5. But that's about the unique interest we have in Pottery at the moment.
If we're going to stagnate the city longer (workers/settlers), though, we could as well research BW first and plan to trade Mathematics to Gandhi in a few turns. Then we'd see if we take Pottery or if there's a better trade (IW). If we end up choosing IW, then we could have Pottery by our own means 7 turns from now.
That's assuming it would do no harm to our game to tech feed Gandhi... Maybe he's not the AI we should feed, if we're going to feed AIs... Are we going to feed AIs to get to space ? Maybe we should...
I'd have no complaints with that. We really need a Granary to grow Moscow past 5. But that's about the unique interest we have in Pottery at the moment.
If we're going to stagnate the city longer (workers/settlers), though, we could as well research BW first and plan to trade Mathematics to Gandhi in a few turns. Then we'd see if we take Pottery or if there's a better trade (IW). If we end up choosing IW, then we could have Pottery by our own means 7 turns from now.
That's assuming it would do no harm to our game to tech feed Gandhi... Maybe he's not the AI we should feed, if we're going to feed AIs... Are we going to feed AIs to get to space ? Maybe we should...
@Duckweed
Nope, didn't try... always went for fastest but that created worker lacks in other cities.
Commerce lost is basically 9 from city and 1 from each other city... 13 commerce/turn = 39 commerce... about 61 beakers before discounts. Not major but still something.
Personally, I'd prefer knowing more about what lies east so sending the missionary+worker is probably what I'd pick. Better than landing blindly -> maybe play a short part until we land the missionary there?
Settler from SP is possible but I'd like at least 1 wb before: there are good chances we need to spend 1 wb to improve island city and we need 1 wb to explore south/east ASAP. Anyway, I'll try it to see what works.
@BIC
Before growing Moscow, it needs 2~3 workers to keep up with improvements. Preferably I'd start working the rice to grow only after it is irrigated. (i.e. 2 more workers-granary or something like that)
As Duckweed said, it's highly likely we have Copper available, simply from looking at unpronounceable team name's power graph. Unless they spammed warriors/chariots that is...
I need to look at the save again first but it'd be nice for the 4th city to start on Granary right away.
Not sure about trading Math... I'd like for us to grab HG for a good boost again.
Nope, didn't try... always went for fastest but that created worker lacks in other cities.
Commerce lost is basically 9 from city and 1 from each other city... 13 commerce/turn = 39 commerce... about 61 beakers before discounts. Not major but still something.
Personally, I'd prefer knowing more about what lies east so sending the missionary+worker is probably what I'd pick. Better than landing blindly -> maybe play a short part until we land the missionary there?
Settler from SP is possible but I'd like at least 1 wb before: there are good chances we need to spend 1 wb to improve island city and we need 1 wb to explore south/east ASAP. Anyway, I'll try it to see what works.
@BIC
Before growing Moscow, it needs 2~3 workers to keep up with improvements. Preferably I'd start working the rice to grow only after it is irrigated. (i.e. 2 more workers-granary or something like that)
As Duckweed said, it's highly likely we have Copper available, simply from looking at unpronounceable team name's power graph. Unless they spammed warriors/chariots that is...
I need to look at the save again first but it'd be nice for the 4th city to start on Granary right away.
Not sure about trading Math... I'd like for us to grab HG for a good boost again.
Commerce lost is a little off as you did not consider the maintenance fee. On the contrary, capital is going to lose ~10 worker turns. After CS and Currency are researched, hammers become more important than commerce, this is more important if capital has copper. IMO 10 worker turns lead to snowball effect, which is better than those commerce. Sending 1 worker also allows exploring a little bit.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
@ Maths <--> Pottery/IW trade :
True, the HG would be great. But there is only 1 source of Stone and 3 AIs are much closer to it than we are... We won't own the stone in time for the HG unless we make it a war priority.
I didn't consider city 4 starting on Granary first... It will be settled on T93 and we won't have Pottery before T94. But I guess we can have the city build wealth for 1 turn
@ Island to the north-east : fastest settling vs scouting.
Hmmm... Reading your post, Kossin, fastest settling sounds the more appealing.
However, scouting first has real advantages if we take a look at the map.
Right now, the only spot we can consider to settle is the one that takes the Deer from our main landmass. We would weaken a lot our 3rd city if we shared that resource between 2 cities. If we could find some seafood around without delaying too much the settler, it would be much better. All the more so since seafood doesn't require worker turns...
I like the idea to send the misssionary a lot (already liked a lot the idea to save it ; I'd have settled it in Moscow right after it popped, without giving it much thinking).
Do you change production queues if going for fastest settling or scouting ? How so ?
@ Commerce vs Hammers :
Agree that hammers are what we need to prioritize, now.
True, the HG would be great. But there is only 1 source of Stone and 3 AIs are much closer to it than we are... We won't own the stone in time for the HG unless we make it a war priority.
I didn't consider city 4 starting on Granary first... It will be settled on T93 and we won't have Pottery before T94. But I guess we can have the city build wealth for 1 turn
@ Island to the north-east : fastest settling vs scouting.
Hmmm... Reading your post, Kossin, fastest settling sounds the more appealing.
However, scouting first has real advantages if we take a look at the map.
Right now, the only spot we can consider to settle is the one that takes the Deer from our main landmass. We would weaken a lot our 3rd city if we shared that resource between 2 cities. If we could find some seafood around without delaying too much the settler, it would be much better. All the more so since seafood doesn't require worker turns...
I like the idea to send the misssionary a lot (already liked a lot the idea to save it ; I'd have settled it in Moscow right after it popped, without giving it much thinking).
Do you change production queues if going for fastest settling or scouting ? How so ?
@ Commerce vs Hammers :
Agree that hammers are what we need to prioritize, now.
Gonna run a few tests before putting foot in my mouth too much
But first, updating test game.
@Duckweed
Yes indeed, I did not consider maintenance. Still is at least 40 beakers which is insignificant (but could come to haunt us, the same as 1 extra food)... I doubt it will be a problem though, which is why I said I was in favor of scouting before settling.
@BIC
HG: at the rate Wonders are going, I expect we can nab it in ~400AD without too much trouble. Plenty of time to hook up the stone.
Pottery: yes that's option 1. Option 2 is to do partial slider... we have exactly 50 commerce right now so any slider % gives a round number of gold. Running 60% slider will lose us 0.6 beakers,0 gold and make us acquire Pottery as we settle the new city. Not sure which is better yet, it depends on when we can whip the granary more than anything else.
But if we say hammers>commerce right now, then surely partial research is better.
So this is what I propose:
Research:
Short set until Missionary lands on island ruins, then I continue the rest of the ~10 turns.
Pottery (R 60% 1 turn then back to binary) > BW > MC (unless no Bronze at all > IW, but I doubt this ).
When galley is built, a worker and the missionary embark, move to Whale.
Next turn, galley moves NE (to see if seafood) then E (see if seafood), unload Missionary 1E of ruins (see if seafood).
Save and check back in thread (no upload needed as I will go on).
City builds/worker micro: I'll work on it after updating test.
Does this seem ok?
EDIT: Just noticed Gandhi went into war mode t90~91... completely missed that during my set. I'm hoping it's Mao and not us due to proximity but it's a tough call as we don't know if they border each other.
But first, updating test game.
@Duckweed
Yes indeed, I did not consider maintenance. Still is at least 40 beakers which is insignificant (but could come to haunt us, the same as 1 extra food)... I doubt it will be a problem though, which is why I said I was in favor of scouting before settling.
@BIC
HG: at the rate Wonders are going, I expect we can nab it in ~400AD without too much trouble. Plenty of time to hook up the stone.
Pottery: yes that's option 1. Option 2 is to do partial slider... we have exactly 50 commerce right now so any slider % gives a round number of gold. Running 60% slider will lose us 0.6 beakers,0 gold and make us acquire Pottery as we settle the new city. Not sure which is better yet, it depends on when we can whip the granary more than anything else.
But if we say hammers>commerce right now, then surely partial research is better.
So this is what I propose:
Research:
Short set until Missionary lands on island ruins, then I continue the rest of the ~10 turns.
Pottery (R 60% 1 turn then back to binary) > BW > MC (unless no Bronze at all > IW, but I doubt this ).
When galley is built, a worker and the missionary embark, move to Whale.
Next turn, galley moves NE (to see if seafood) then E (see if seafood), unload Missionary 1E of ruins (see if seafood).
Save and check back in thread (no upload needed as I will go on).
City builds/worker micro: I'll work on it after updating test.
Does this seem ok?
EDIT: Just noticed Gandhi went into war mode t90~91... completely missed that during my set. I'm hoping it's Mao and not us due to proximity but it's a tough call as we don't know if they border each other.
St-Pete: Galley>Settler (partial, until we know where we'll settle)>wb (complete before settler if we need to clear fallout).
Moscow: 2 more workers, then granary. Current worker can start cleaning 1E of Moscow... next worker will replace the one at silver city. Joined by the next worker as well.
Moscow: 2 more workers, then granary. Current worker can start cleaning 1E of Moscow... next worker will replace the one at silver city. Joined by the next worker as well.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Regarding Moscow, I'd start farming the westside rather than cottaging the east. Size 10 is a long way and our happy cap will keep growing.
If we can find spare worker turns (probably not this set), we should think about the desert tile 1SE of St Pet. With rising seas, desert + fallout is susceptible to change into coast, which would lose us our lake
If we can find spare worker turns (probably not this set), we should think about the desert tile 1SE of St Pet. With rising seas, desert + fallout is susceptible to change into coast, which would lose us our lake
Erkon said he'd never seen any effects of rising seas in his playthroughs. Maybe cottage but I haven't thought about it too much... need to grow and crank out hammers so I've been putting farms/mines.
Doubt we'll grow to 10 really soon in any case.
Doubt we'll grow to 10 really soon in any case.
I'll just load the worker to the hill in the 1st time. if the ruin site better , it can move to there next turn without losing anything. Otherwise we lose 1 turn if the hill site is better.
Gandhi should be targeting Mao since Mao is obviously closer.
Gandhi should be targeting Mao since Mao is obviously closer.
We don't lose 1 turn, the worker can't unload the turn the galley is done.
t95
Galley done
load worker
load missionary
move loaded galley to whale (can't unload)
t96
move galley 1S of hill... if seafood seen unload missionary on ruins
if no seafood seen, move galley 1E (now 1S of ruins)... unload missionary to NE, worker goes to either hill or ruins. No turns lost whatsoever.
BTW, just read your Civ5 deity guide...
Is it really that easy?
t95
Galley done
load worker
load missionary
move loaded galley to whale (can't unload)
t96
move galley 1S of hill... if seafood seen unload missionary on ruins
if no seafood seen, move galley 1E (now 1S of ruins)... unload missionary to NE, worker goes to either hill or ruins. No turns lost whatsoever.
BTW, just read your Civ5 deity guide...
Is it really that easy?Even with the dumb AI, the huge deity bonus make the game never being easy. Chinese is the top tier civilization to play with and you also need a little luck of not being DOWed by more than 1 AI early on. Overall CiV is a much easier game to master than Civ4.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Pre-plan is ok with me
Settling the 5th city on the island is an obvious objective, now that the GLH is ours.
Will exploration be sufficient to determine the 5th city's location if we only land the missionary ? I wouldn't mind the turnset to be a little longer...
Settling the 5th city on the island is an obvious objective, now that the GLH is ours.
Will exploration be sufficient to determine the 5th city's location if we only land the missionary ? I wouldn't mind the turnset to be a little longer...
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