SGOTM 12 - tao

AlanH

Mac addict, php monkey
Moderator
Hall of Fame Staff
GOTM Staff
Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
29,707
Location
England
Welcome to your SGOTM 12 team thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page on February 9th, at midnight, server local time.

This time we have an archipelago on a standard size map with 30 rivals (yes, that's every Civ in the book, so you know who they are), and everyone is destined to remain feudal for the entire game. You start with a settler and a worker as usual, and the AI all start with two settlers a lots of Deity units .... also as usual. But since there's not a lot of room for expansion, no one can build any more settlers.

Seafaring and Scientific Theodora finds herself in a world with 30 other civilizations. She and her Dromons are on a mission to bring civilized diplomacy to the masses ... whether they like it or not. The winners of this game will be the succession team that reaches a Diplomatic Victory by the earliest game date. All victory conditions are enabled, but only a UN vote in your favour will bring the laurels. Thanks once more to Gyathaar for the concept and map.

Here's the start.

SGOTM12-start.gif

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Byzantine
Difficulty - Deity
Opponents - 30
World - Standard, Archipelago, 70% water, 4 billion years old, warm and wet
Barbarians - Roaming

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Knowing Gyathaar as we do, the map may have been tweaked :p

Game mods:
We shall use the default rules as defined in the SGOTM Reference Thread, with the following changes specific to this game:

- All Civs start in Feudalism, and cannot adopt another form of government.
- No Civ can build Settlers.
- As city counts are limited, all Civs get ten extra free units in Feudalism.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included. If you have played previous C3C SGOTMs then you will be ready. Other players will need to download and unzip this small graphics mod pack. Details are provided in the SGOTM Reference Thread..

Please ensure that you have included the line: NoAIPatrol=0 in your conquests.ini text file:

A 'fix' for the Barbarians!:
As many of you know, the barbarians in C3C are 'broken'. This can be fixed by going to your \Conquest\ folder, and opening your Conquests.ini file, and adding a line noaipatrol=0 to the file. Whilst we cannot force people to do this, it will make the game a bit more interesting if you do. If you are not comfortable editing your .ini file, you can download a utility here to do it automatically.

Players running Civ3 Complete for Macintosh should contact me if they have any problems with the mod. If they are not running the Rev A version they will need to use FileValet to compress their saves for upload, and they may also need to use it to 'clean' downloaded saves before playing.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared, skipping references to PtW or Vanilla versions of Civ3.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
The SGOTM Reference Thread.

Notes:

A. ONLY Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award set.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - the laurels will be awarded for the fastest Diplomatic victory. The wooden spoons will go to the team with the lowest final Jason score, having completed the game one way or another.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Have fun :)
 
Hi guys!

Settler SE may be on the cards. My fog-gazing is not too hot but surely that's a cow's head I can see poking out of the darkness. The worker move will help us out I guess.
 
checking in
we will be builders (great library, non warfare, SoZ ), semi builders ( SoZ, conquer our island ), or warmongeners ( SoZ, as much as we can we conquer )?
 
Hi everybody!

Welcome to a new and interesting SGOTM. I'm just posting this before going to work and thus will be brief.

In the last gotm I observed, that Civ MAC had better fog gazing capabilities than Civ PC - I will have a look at the starting save later.

As much as I dislike it: IMHO with a single city, we should do a spreadsheet to really optimize our initial moves.

And before running full speed ahead, we should have some strategy discussion.

And now I have to run ...


tao
 
lurker's comment: Good luck, guys. Sorry I couldn't join up, but I'm just not able to give Civ my full attention these days.
 
I'll be away for a couple of days-not sure how long it partially depends upon the weather.
 
I'm away for the weekend as well (back Sunday night) so I won't see the save before I go.

I'd like to see if there are any fish 2NE, it may be easier to see in the save itself particularly with the Mac version. Otherwise SE looks good.

I'll fish out my spreadsheet for the city.
 
The weekend has started and it is time for us to get organized.
  1. Playing Roster Suggestion
    tao
    MacBaldrick
    Furiey
    ignas
    Tone
    wxwindmill

  2. Timing
    24 hours to post a "got it" message, 72 hours to play. Please keep to this; experience shows that once we loose steam, it is very hard to get rolling again. If you want to have a switch or skip, just ask and your wish will be granted.

  3. Roster Update
    Please include the updated roster at the end of your timeline posts.

  4. CivAssist II
    IMHO indispensable for this game. I know Furiey and Tone use it, but what about the others? If you don't have it yet, run and get it.

Comments? Changes? Additions?
 
Roster is ok for me. In the past used no utility programs while playing civ, but will send CivAssist II for this SGOTM as advised.
 
My position in the order agrees with me. I have CAII and have used it enough to get a decent feel for it, but haven't used it regularly lately. Is the 'updated roster' like "I sent it to tao, MacBaldrick is ondeck"?? or something else?

Random thought/question....
Since all civs will be fuedalistic the whole game, will it be worth it to check which civs 'shun' fuedalism and which ones 'favor' it??? I don't recall -- will a civ be more likely to have a better attitude towards us if they 'favor' the government that we are both in??
 
I don't think it' s even worth checking AI's "shunned" and "favorite" governments, it doesn't make of a differnce.AI's after building their all cities (3 cities in this Sgotm)will start attacking other civs, it doesn't matter if they 'shun' or 'favourite' The Feudalism,they have too many units, it's random i think what they are going to attack.If they have no space, not so many tiles to expand their territory = they will attack, that just my opinion.
And in the end you always can make war alliances if You have UN vote against the biggest AI civ, ensuring diplo victory.

I think we should build a granary and some workers in the beggining for optomizing our production early, then later join them and run our capital Constantinople as 12 citizens for all the time for as many shields as possible and just build military and SOZ for all the AA time (i think unit support will hurt). Thats just my opinion.What do you think if you are interested to think:) ?
 
I uploaded the save before the server crashed yesterday. Here now the log. IMHO we have a good basis for discussions.

Summary:
pop 4, growth in 1
2 workers, 2 curraghs, 1 warriors
all 1st level techs, writing in 19
met Japan, Aztecs, Portugal, Rome, India
We are alone on an island. We have horses in Constantinople, ivory connected, incense colonized, wines within reach.

0: 4000bc: no new information from extensive fog gazing; settler goes and sees the E cow plus a SE bg. worker E sees more ivory across a strip of water.

1: 3950bc: Constantinople founded starting worker; worker to cow. We seem to have a canal on the N-E-S side of our location. Island?
Research set to writing at full speed

2: 3900bc: worker irrigates

3: 3850bc: zzz

IBT Aztec warrior/settler combo across the canal on the ivory

4: 3800bc: Aztecs know wc, pottery, lack alphabet, bronze; they have ivory connected - we will get competition to build SoZ
Since our techs are worth more than Monty's, I don't trade yet.

5: 3750bc: zzz

6: 3700bc: Constantinople builds worker starts next; when doing farmers gambit do it full speed :)
irrigation done, start road, new worker goes SW
Japanese borders and warrior appear SW
Japan gives wheel, wc, cb 20g for bronze, alphabet - there are horses in Constantinople
Aztecs give pottery for alphabet

7: 3650bc: worker goes to bg cow and sees incense S - nice: another luxury
Aztec combo walks back from Japanese territory

8: 3600bc: start irrigating 2nd cow
Aztecs found Teotihuacan touching our borders - place must be crowded

9: 3550bc: cow road done; I decide to connect ivory to get the happiness

10: 3500bc: Constantinople b worker s curragh

11: 3450bc: borders expand

12: 3400bc: workers work

13: 3350bc: mm to bg cow

14: 3300bc: Constantinople grows; mm to work both gras cows

15: 3250bc: C builds curragh s next, curragh goes N

IBT red and grey curraghs appear

16: 3200bc: meet red Rome and grey India - both know "nothing", lack wheel, and have 0 cash
our curragh goes N

17: 3150bc: Constantinople need lux to prevent riot - I decide to send 1 worker colonizing the incense. Surprise: We have wine W of the incense. :D
We now also know for sure, that we are alone on an island.

IBT French city of Paris completes Colossus; amazingly fast

18: 3100bc: Constantinople b curragh starts warrior for mp duty
woker colonizes incense; lux back to 0currgahs move

19: 3050bc: meet Henry from Portugal having 1 gold
Constantinople needs 10% lux again

20: 3000bc: Constantinople b warrior s archer
AIs know masonry and India has mystery monopol and is not willing to trade it;
buy masonry for wheel, 11g instead

Notes:
Rome and India are "up north".

Differential naval movement is in effect. I.e. curraghs can move 2 sea tiles, followed by the (safe) coastal tile.

Important:
Do not chop the forrests. They are important 2spt tiles!
Build more workers before we grow to pop 7. We will then join them again and thus greatly speed up the growth to pop 12.
We will need lux tax again next turn, but CivAssist will tell you.

Roster:
MacBaldrick (up next)
Furiey
ignas
Tone
wxwindmill
tao (just played)

10 turns everybody from now on.
 
We can grow with +10fpt. Thus I do not favor to build a granary just for temporary use. 60 granary shields would give us 4 curraghs for exploration.

We need to have however 5 workers to merge once we grow to pop 7. But without the despotism penalty and all the cows, this should not create too much of a problem.

I was assuming us to be on an island. Otherwise too much random factors of teams being wiped out early would happen for a (s)gotm.

Maybe it was wrong to colonize the incense. Using the 10 shields for a warrior mp and not loosing 1 pop might have been better. OTOH we now know about the wines.

With the Aztecs also having ivory, SoZ will be contended (I was hoping otherwise), but our city is very very strong and IMHO we just have to pick up math as soon as it becomes available.
 

Attachments

  • tao_sgotm12_3000cc.jpg
    tao_sgotm12_3000cc.jpg
    49.7 KB · Views: 239
I think we should build a granary and some workers in the beggining for optomizing our production early, then later join them and run our capital Constantinople as 12 citizens for all the time for as many shields as possible and just build military and SOZ for all the AA time (i think unit support will hurt). Thats just my opinion.What do you think if you are interested to think:) ?
I can't see the value of a granary but I agree with both of you to build a few more workers before hitting size 7. However we are growing every 2 turns at size 6 so I guess that we'll be building a few workers over the next few turns. SoZ will require a prebuild and a lucky trade. With what we know now (after tao's turns) are we still going for it? We should be able to get a few navel units out there and have an early trade bonus with all our contacts-maybe that will be enough to give us the edge for SoZ.
 
hi Guys,

Sorry to be so late to sign in - busy weekend. Also I have been having severe problems with my hard-drive - its dying and I can't find my Disk Warrior CD. Can still boot / work from a second partition which has Conquests on it but I must upgrade to Rev A to avoid need for FileVault.

I can still follow things on my work PC (which I'm doing now) or my home PC. Will try to make a contribution tonight (UK time) or skip me this turn.
 
Tao,

Can I run CIVAssist II on my PC (its PC only - right) using the Mac save file - across a shared network connnection ?
 
Tao,

Can I run CIVAssist II on my PC (its PC only - right) using the Mac save file - across a shared network connnection ?

The save files are compatible. Thus you should be able to manually open each turn's autosave file with CivAssist on the PC and learn about all trading possibilities. (IMHO the important feature for this game: who wants to manually check 31 AIS each turn in order to not miss a trade?) Assuming of course you have the machines properly networked.
 
Ok guys,

I am up and running (except for CIVasist - but I will sort out the networking by my next turn) so take it.

Initial Questions - What are our priorities for advances after Writing ?

There was suggestions of Maths for SoZ. Then Map making for Dromon and Gt Lighthouse. These two give us mastery of the seas with movement 8 over sea with lethal bombard. On Archipeligo that probably means almost all cities can be bombarded too.

What build order should follow - four or five more workers to road to all the Ivory tiles plus another colony for the Wines ? More galleys or wait for Dromonds ? More Archers or wait for Iron / Swordsmen and hopefully AC ?

Tao - what direction did you want the western curragh to explore, NW or S. SW ?

On a wider view (after nav) do we ally with distant Civs against nearer Civs so we can attack the locals (if remaining) more easily to gain cities and build up allies for UN ? Alternatively to we pick weaker civs as allies to give excuse to weaken stronger Civs - destroying all shipping with massed dromonds could be a valuable tactic.

Any Civs we definitely should try to take out ?
- Aztecs (local and have Ivory)
- Vikings (removing the dangerous amphibious berserker)

I will await some input before sheduling build / worker / explore plans and play tomorrow - is that OK
 
Back
Top Bottom