SGOTM 13 - Smurkz

[AlanH]

Welcome to your SGOTM 13 Team thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page on December 14th, at midnight, server local time.

Rik Meleet has prepared a Huge map with 29 rivals, at Demigod level. You play as Japan, you start on a small island, and the only way anyone can win - before 2050 - is to build a spaceship. Thanks, Rik, and best wishes to both of you in your future as a married couple.

Here's the start.

​

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Japan
Difficulty - Demi-god
Opponents - 29
World - Huge (250 x 125), Continents, 70% water
Barbarians - Roaming

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration. Rik isn't saying anything, as he's far too busy on his honeymoon, but we can assume the map has been "adapted"

Game mods:
We shall use the default rules as defined in the SGOTM Reference Thread.

Following recent discussions about exploits for extracting large amounts of "free" gpt from the AI, so-called "Emsworth Agreements", we shall operate the following rule as proposed by Lanzelot:

In a deal which includes a resource, a millitary alliance or a trade embargo, the human player is not allowed to pay the AI more gpt to AI than the AI demands.

Detailed discussions of the reasoning surrounding this are available starting here in the Sign-up thread for this game, as well as in a number of other HoF and GOTM-related forums.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included. If you have played previous C3C SGOTMs then you will be ready. Other players will need to download and unzip this small graphics mod pack. Details are provided in the SGOTM Reference Thread..

Please ensure that you have included the line: NoAIPatrol=0 in your conquests.ini text file:

A 'fix' for the Barbarians!:
As many of you know, the barbarians in C3C are 'broken'. This can be fixed by going to your \Conquest\ folder, and opening your Conquests.ini file, and adding a line noaipatrol=0 to the file. Whilst we cannot force people to do this, it will make the game a bit more interesting if you do. If you are not comfortable editing your .ini file, you can download a utility here to do it automatically.

Players running Civ3 Complete for Macintosh should contact me if they have any problems with the mod. If they are not running a patched version they will need to use FileValet to compress their saves for upload, and they may also need to use it to 'clean' downloaded saves before playing.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared, skipping references to PtW or Vanilla versions of Civ3.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
The SGOTM Reference Thread.

Notes:

A. ONLY Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award set.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - the laurels will be awarded for the fastest Spaceship victory. The wooden spoons will go to the team with the lowest final Jason score, having completed the game one way or another.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

D. Good luck, and enjoy the game

 

[Niklas]

Current Roster and Schedule

• Othniel - UP! (Feb 9)
• zyxy - On Deck! (Feb 12)
• eldar - Warming Up (Feb 15)
• CommandoBob (Feb 18)
• Niklas (Feb 21)
• donsig (Feb 24)

Turnlogs
Turn 0 (4000 BC)
Turn 0-10 (4000 BC - 3500 BC)
Turn 10-20 (3500 BC - 3000 BC)
Turn 20-30 (3000 BC - 2550 BC)
Turn 30-38 (2550 BC - 2230 BC)
Turn 38-50 (2230 BC - 1750 BC)
Turn 50-60 (1750 BC - 1500 BC)
Turn 60-70 (1500 BC - 1250 BC)
Turn 70-76 (1250 BC - 1100 BC)
Turn 76-85 (1100 BC - 875 BC)
Turn 86-97 (875 BC - 610 BC)
Turn 97-111 (610 BC - 330 BC)
Turn 111-120 (330 BC - 150 BC)
Turn 120-130 (150 BC - 50 AD)
Turn 130-140 (50 AD - 250 AD)
Turn 140-150 (250 AD - 350 AD)

 

[CommandoBob]

Wee, here we go again!

I'll think of something more useful to say soon, just wanted to get a post up.

show off

You just wanted to play the first 20 turns, that's all.

And once again, it is Christmas with the Smurkz!

 

[ControlFreak]

SmurkzerLurker post (so second play slot is still open CB. Looks like Niklas beat you in for a change EDIT: beat me while I'm posting. Guess 3rd spot is open then.).

Settler: Definitely settle in place. Moving either looses the oysters or the cow and a valuable turn towards curaughs.

Research: Alphabet for boats.

Short term goals: Get boats scouting. Get a second town on the grass 2SE.

We are going to be very far behind the AI when we meet them that we're going to have to trade our way up. I've never played DemiGod, but my guess is it will be faster to rely on the AI to research for us and use our money for enough military support to acquire much needed land as well as create have and have nots for trading potentials.

Good luck Smurkz!

 

[Niklas]

Hi CF! Glad to have you here, feel free to comment on anything at any time. But you know that.

Settler: Definitely settle in place. Moving either looses the oysters or the cow and a valuable turn towards curaughs.

I don't see how we could lose the cow by moving. I'm actually wondering if it could possibly be worth our while to move to settle on the hill 1E. We can't irrigate obviously, so a plains tile will always be less worth than a hill, which would speak in favor of not moving. The difference could be if there's something offshore on the other coast that we'd be missing out on, since the closest sure looks pretty bleak. Worker should of course go to the cow first, which should give us a better view.

Research: Alphabet for boats.

No argument there.

Short term goals: Get boats scouting. Get a second town on the grass 2SE.

That's another thing speaking in favor of settling in place, unless 2SE is also a BG, in which case it wouldn't really matter on which BG the second town goes.

We are going to be very far behind the AI when we meet them that we're going to have to trade our way up. I've never played DemiGod, but my guess is it will be faster to rely on the AI to research for us and use our money for enough military support to acquire much needed land as well as create have and have nots for trading potentials.

Indeed, on this level we won't be doing much research on our own, until way into the MA anyway. But so very much depends on when we find the AIs.

Good luck Smurkz!

Thanks, and drop by soon and often!

 

[donsig]

29 rivals? Demi-god? Are we starting on a seven tile island? What have I gotten into?

If we do live on a seven-tile island and are planning on squeezing two cities here then why wouldn't we settle where we are? If we're planning on one city here then why not the hill? If we're not on Gilligan's Island then never mind.

 

[Othniel]

Hey Smurzkians, Othniel reporting in and excited to be on board!

*Stream of consciousness*

I'm a liken' just settling in place. Even if we're on a peninsula (unlikely), I suspect the best resources are what we see now.

For research path, Alpha's the logical choice. On the other hand...what about the Colossus?? Assuming we're on a tiny island, we'll have a lot of extra shield capacity that would normally be invested in settlers. Of course, this could be similar to the last SG where the other civs' islands are very close by and we'd probably want an early military strike. That possibility aside, an early Colossus shooting our research faster toward Map Making and beyond could be huge.

Now, trading for Bronze Working will be tough without boats. Getting the Colossus first, though, would probably mean we need BW right away because we have nothing for a big pre-build. Some AI's will start with BW and be on the coast (Byzantine, etc). But giving up early boats, that's really rough.

What does an oyster give? The screenshot seems to suggest an oyster gives +1 shields and +1 ?commerce? to a coastal tile. If you hadn't guessed, this is my first time using the Mediterranean graphics pack.

Mine the cow first or road it first for extra commerce to get research sped up?

Also, what about not building a settler until we get *Alpha* so our capital can stay big and churn commerce. Probably need to see the rest of the "island" tiles before we decide.

Excel time soon...

*end stream of consciousness*

 

[zyxy]

Signing in...

Loose thoughts:

I agree with settling in place.

If the AI's are isolated, then we can hopefully dominate the trading game with relative ease.

The cost of alphabet is 285. We should be able to do 6-7 bpt when we reach size 3 (3 bpt from the capital, 2 from fish, and 1 from cow or 2 from the rocks - no, that's not an oyster). Probably a max run will pay off, but we need to calculate.

Commerce seems more needed than shields in this stage. So I would road before mine.

Intriguing idea about the Colossus. Is it feasible to get it first? BW costs 171, so that's about 30-35 turns. The best prebuild we have is a 30 shield temple. With the visible tiles, we can do 6 spt at size 3, so that makes ETA of the Colossus at turn (200-30)/6 + 30, that is, around turn 60.

Our starting techs are wheel and cb. They are pretty useless IMO. Well, at least we know that we have no horses on the visible tiles.

If we all agree about settling in place, then we could do that and discuss from there with more complete map knowledge.

 

[eldar]

Good day everyone. I'll mull over strategy once I'm home from work.

 

[eldar]

Thinking cap on.

I agree with:
- Settling in place. No point going anywhere.
- Research Alpha @ Max for Curragh spam. I hope there is at least a trail of coastal tile to follow, otherwise it's going to be down to random chance who gets contacts first.

Some random thoughts:
- With 29 rival DG civs I don't see the Philo slingshot going anywhere.
- Don't waste shields on the Colossus, because we'll no doubt be Palace-jumping at some point leaving the Colossus city hopelessly corrupt.
- What about the GLib? Build it, give it away, then re-capture at the "opportune moment"? Amazing what a vast stack of Trebs+LBs can kill....

 

[Niklas]

Everyone is here and accounted for!

Judging by the Predator Galley Challenge in GOTM 72, a colossus is a waste of time. And in that game we even started with BW, and the difficulty was Warlord. I don't see any way the Colossus will be built later than turn 40 in this game.

eldar's GLib idea is very interesting though, if we can pull something like that off it could really help us. Though I find it much more likely that we will be capturing the GLib from someone who built it for us.

Here is the discussion on the mediterranean resource pack. Rocks indeed give +1 shield and +1 commerce.

 

[CommandoBob]

First thoughts in Random Order:

Settling in place is fine, unless the Vikings are in play. Only for them would I consider moving onto the hill. Well, maybe if the Bzyantines are in play, too.
Bezerks or Dromonds; I just hope they are not nearby.

I can almost convince myself that there are more coastal tiles to the SW, but not quite.

Hadn't considered a palace jump, but, boy-o-boy, it sure makes sense.

Not sure about trying for the Great Library, but if we can build it, use it or take it I'm all for it.

The map size is odd: 250 x 125. This is a much larger map than we have played on before (SGOTM 12, 11, 10 and 9 were standard; SGOTM 8 was small; didn't go back any further). This gives us 31,250 tiles; a Huge map (160 x 160) has only 25,600 tiles. Just running the numbers, we have 9,375 non-water tiles for 30 civs, or about 300 tiles per civ on average. We, of course, are above average.

What is of concern is running out of cities, since only 512 are allowed in the game. I've seen that happen in some AW games here, but I don't recall how early that becomes an issue. I don't expect this to be a factor, but sometimes I do chase rabbits.

Since this is a Meleet Made Map, I expect to find only one source of Aluminum, on a small island, halfway around the world.

 

[Othniel]

Since this is a Meleet Made Map, I expect to find only one source of Aluminum, on a small island, halfway around the world.

QFT! Hopefully by the time we need Aluminum, we'll have 65% of the land and 99% of the pop.

Yeah, the Colossus would not be a long-term benefit, that's for sure. Definitely a palace jump will need to happen unless this special Meelet map has the other 29 civs on tiny islands...and the rest of the world is all ocean. I don't think anyone will make space by 2050 if that were the case.

Seriously though, my thought on the Colossus was just to boost us to Galleys and Republic. Based on the figures that zyxy threw out and Niklas' link, it wouldn't be enough of a boost. So, scratch that thought out.

Okay, GLib elevator is a good thought, but I think we need to see the rest of how the AI are set up. If the AI is isolated on fairly small landmasses, I really wonder if the tech pace will be fast enough to warrant the elevator. If we capture the GLib in the normal course of "business", well then...

Another wonder shout-out...The Lighthouse?

I really, really want to see the rest of our island, especially if there are other landmasses visible from that mountain lookout point. Probably wishful thinking, but that water to the S-SE could be a tiny fresh water lake...

 

[Niklas]

Would we consider wasting a worker move to climb the hill and get a better look?

 

[ControlFreak]

Another watchout for colosus is that the extra commerce is wasted in despotism from coastal tiles
(2+1colosus=3-1despotism=2 )

On diety, it's tough to build colosus or great library. Demigod, isolated would be nearly impossible. Another risk to the Library would be if our first contact was with two civs that know Education already, a distinct possibility at this level and isolation. That would kill the potential for later GLE (Great Library Elevator, copyright SirPleb). We may want to fight with a giant stack of cats and LBs long into the Industrial Age and take the AI built GLib later. I wouldn't waste sheilds on it now.

If my guess is right, we'll have no surplus of sheilds. They will all be used for suicide boats and archers for upgrade.

I don't think the hill will show much beyond the coastal view from the cow, so I wouldn't waste the worker move.

 

[donsig]

Would we consider wasting a worker move to climb the hill and get a better look?

Unless we see something on the hill to cause us to want to not settle in place I don't think it's worth it. Why not just settle in place and see what we see then?

 

[Othniel]

Unless we see something on the hill to cause us to want to not settle in place I don't think it's worth it. Why not just settle in place and see what we see then?

I agree. I don't think the worker will see anything to change our minds on our opening moves.

The only thing I can see changing my mind on settling in place would be a cow or wheat on the tile SE-SE or a plethora of whales in the 2NE area of the hill. Then I think we might want to settle our two cities on the hill and on the BG south of our start. But my limited fog-gazing skills don't seem to suggest a wheat or cow on that SE-SE tile. No dice on fog-gazing the sea tiles either.

I think we've agreed on Alpha at max no matter what.

I assume also that our first build is a warrior. Sending him to the mountain ASAP should let us know if any neighbors are nearby or if more land is available than we think, and we can then adjust accordingly.

 

[eldar]

Hmm. It's still not clear that we're on such a small island. E of the mountain, S of the Grass, could still be narrow necks of land. I guess we'll find out once the first Warrior is out and roaming.

Meanwhile F10 says the only opponent we don't have is Greece.

 

[zyxy]

(Edited this post after I discovered the cow is standing on a bg)

Indeed, there could be more land. If so, I would rather research pottery than Alpha.

If we want to maximize commerce, this is what the start could look like.


The commerce total takes into account that we have to spend 1 gpt on lux tax for the 4th citizen.

I joined the worker to the town to generate extra coins. Also, there is nothing worthwhile left to improve. Note that the cow already has 2 spt (must be a bg underneath), so mining the cow is useless. Mining the bg is of course of some use, but we seem to generate enough shields already.

If we don't build a settler, then we'll get Alpha on turn 35. But building a settler will probably speed this up.

If we want we could send the worker to the hill on the first turn, as he has an idle turn anyway. It will cost us 1 gold.

 

[donsig]

Interesting that there isn't much for the worker to do. I think we're on a small island but others are close by. Moving the worker to the hill looks more appealing now.