donsig
Low level intermediary
Why make peace with Hiawatha, especially if we pay? At least do the French peace treaty first and see if that helps our terms with the Iroquois.
SGOTM 13 - Smurkz
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
I'm determined to press on with this game also. We need to get a roster going though.
Roster:
1. Commando Bob
2. eldar?
3. donsig?
4. Othniel
a. Niklas- consultant
b. zyxy- long-term skip?
eldar and donsig, are you guys still up for playing sets, and if so, where would you like to be in the roster order? I put myself last for now because I played the last full set but I'm willing to swap.
In game......
Good analysis, CB. The trade with Maya sounds fine and the build orders generally sound good.
My diplo thoughts in a nutshell. Don't make peace with anyone unless:
a. They give us an MA in return against one of our long-term enemies (Egypt, Rome, etc.)
b. They give us techs for peace
Of course, we can use our gpt and gold to get these deals done. But I don't think getting peace straight up does anything for us at this point, even if we might get a marginally better deal.
The build orders, like I said, sound generally fine. One thing, though, and I feel like I've harped on this point a million times this game
: I would change Akichi over to worker duty for the foreseeable future. If we have too many shields invested in the aqueduct build, we should discuss, but overall we need workers badly.
We have so many workers tied up in coastal blocking that we have precious few for joins. With our abundant war happiness--mostly untapped at the moment--we can make our towns quite large without needing to increase the lux slider. All those worker joins will also be able to work high-commerce coastal tiles, which will be a big $$ increase. Basically, get our towns as big as possible as fast as possible!! It will payoff for sure. So yes, join that spare worker to Saki asap.
I don't think we need military builds at the moment, mostly because we don't have any spare towns to produce them at the moment.
Once we get Markets, Aqueducts, Harbors, and a culture expansion in all our core towns, I say no more infrastructure builds. Any town that has all 4 of those things should be put on military / ship builds indefinitely.
IMO also we should retire the Shell Game permanently and get those shell towns building some infrastructure.
Those are my thoughts for now. Thanks for taking this next set, CB. Best of luck!
Roster:
1. Commando Bob
2. eldar?
3. donsig?
4. Othniel
a. Niklas- consultant
b. zyxy- long-term skip?
eldar and donsig, are you guys still up for playing sets, and if so, where would you like to be in the roster order? I put myself last for now because I played the last full set but I'm willing to swap.
In game......
Good analysis, CB. The trade with Maya sounds fine and the build orders generally sound good.
My diplo thoughts in a nutshell. Don't make peace with anyone unless:
a. They give us an MA in return against one of our long-term enemies (Egypt, Rome, etc.)
b. They give us techs for peace
Of course, we can use our gpt and gold to get these deals done. But I don't think getting peace straight up does anything for us at this point, even if we might get a marginally better deal.
The build orders, like I said, sound generally fine. One thing, though, and I feel like I've harped on this point a million times this game
: I would change Akichi over to worker duty for the foreseeable future. If we have too many shields invested in the aqueduct build, we should discuss, but overall we need workers badly. We have so many workers tied up in coastal blocking that we have precious few for joins. With our abundant war happiness--mostly untapped at the moment--we can make our towns quite large without needing to increase the lux slider. All those worker joins will also be able to work high-commerce coastal tiles, which will be a big $$ increase. Basically, get our towns as big as possible as fast as possible!! It will payoff for sure. So yes, join that spare worker to Saki asap.
I don't think we need military builds at the moment, mostly because we don't have any spare towns to produce them at the moment.
Once we get Markets, Aqueducts, Harbors, and a culture expansion in all our core towns, I say no more infrastructure builds. Any town that has all 4 of those things should be put on military / ship builds indefinitely.
IMO also we should retire the Shell Game permanently and get those shell towns building some infrastructure.
Those are my thoughts for now. Thanks for taking this next set, CB. Best of luck!
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I can't say why peace with Iroquois is such a fixation right now. My best guess is that if we make peace I won't be tempted to lure them ashore and kill them.
In some of our SGOTM's it has been just one or two slugging away at the game in the end times. I'll be here till the end.
I just don't see our wars helping us much at this point. We have to have units in the field (that we could disband) to keep our foes from invading. We pay 44 gpt in unit support that could go to better things.
I don't remember what is invested in that aqueduct in Akichi; I'll check when I get home.The build orders, like I said, sound generally fine. One thing, though, and I feel like I've harped on this point a million times this game
Akichi making workers; not a problem.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
If we sign peace with everyone, we lose all our war happiness. If we lose all our war happiness, when we get size 8+ cities, the increase in lux tax will exceed the 44gpt we're paying for our coastal block. Also, if we are at war with just one civ, we need the coastal block for now because we have nothing to repel invasion. So, to me that means keep the wars going for happiness purposes, knowing that it will payoff in time.
I think it will be difficult to get war happiness later on if we were to sign peace with everyone now. Getting war happiness, unless the AI obliges with demands, can take some time to set up.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
War Happiness has caused me issues before; we do want to keep that (WH) as long as we can. We stay at war.
Akichi
We have 65 shields invested in the aqueduct. Akichi nets 4spt.
Seems a bit steep to pay for one worker we plan to join to another city.
We can finish the aqueduct (9 turns from now) or change over to a library (4 turns from now).
To rush the aqueduct right now would cost 140 gold. We have 9 and will gain 75 more when we sell Lit to Maya, for a total of 84, leaving us 56 gold short. At +19 gpt, we could rush the aqueduct in two turns, when we need only 27 shields to complete it. And then build workers.
We could rush a library this turn. It only needs 60 gold.
Aqueducts will help us grow and get smarter. Rushing the aqueduct in 2 turns, if we can, seems to be the best way to Akichi into a worker factory.
Akichi
We have 65 shields invested in the aqueduct. Akichi nets 4spt.
Seems a bit steep to pay for one worker we plan to join to another city.
We can finish the aqueduct (9 turns from now) or change over to a library (4 turns from now).
To rush the aqueduct right now would cost 140 gold. We have 9 and will gain 75 more when we sell Lit to Maya, for a total of 84, leaving us 56 gold short. At +19 gpt, we could rush the aqueduct in two turns, when we need only 27 shields to complete it. And then build workers.
We could rush a library this turn. It only needs 60 gold.
Aqueducts will help us grow and get smarter. Rushing the aqueduct in 2 turns, if we can, seems to be the best way to Akichi into a worker factory.
donsig
Low level intermediary
I can stay as an active turn player but don't want to play a set till after the semester ends on April 29.
I agree with staying at war. As we build our city sizes that until support cost will go down.
I agree with staying at war. As we build our city sizes that until support cost will go down.
eldar
ChiefTank
I can stay active but I can only guarantee to be able to play 1 or maybe 2 turns on any given day, what with the time it's taking.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
@CB: Yeah, I think rush the duct. Akichi needs to be able to do 2-turn workers (5fpt, 5spt), so maybe micro Akichi right now for 5spt and that will lower the rush cost. Normally I would say don't rush a building in our situation, but we can produce an extra 3 1/2 workers in the time it would take to build the duct normally. If we can immediately join those workers to other cities, they will pay back our investment pretty soon, I think.
@ eldar and donsig: Glad you guys are still on board.
I'll keep you in the roster order I posted above, of course we can give skips as needed. Oh, and I don't think turns will take that long for a while yet. The big trade turns were a bear, but that seems to have quieted down for now. The turns will get lengthy once we start a military push, though.
@ eldar and donsig: Glad you guys are still on board.
I'll keep you in the roster order I posted above, of course we can give skips as needed. Oh, and I don't think turns will take that long for a while yet. The big trade turns were a bear, but that seems to have quieted down for now. The turns will get lengthy once we start a military push, though.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I will try to get my turns played this weekend. My wife's PC is down, so guess which comes first, her PC or Civ3? 
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
0/810 (Preflight)
Sell Literature to Maya for 75 of 75 gold.
Hit Enter.
[IBT 0810 AD]
Iroquois fleet sail northwards out of our sight.
Mongols and Portugal sign a trade embargo on us.
Sensei Smurkz: harbor -> aqueduct in 25.
Sushi Smurkz: worker -> worker in 4.
Yamamoto: temple -> harbor in 30.
Wonderful News
Smith's Trading Company is built in Grand River, Iroquois.
And the cascade:
Korea is building Universal Suffrage. (Industrialization)
Spain is building Shakespeare's Theatre. (Free Artistry)
Rome is building Shakespeare's Theatre.
01 0820 AD
Ao grew to 7 on the IBT; the new unhappy citizen becomes a tax collector; market in 14.
New worker in Sushi joins Sensei and becomes a tax collector.
We need 124 gold to rush the Akichi's aqueduct; we have 103.
Ao Galley 2 explores the Celtic coast.
We need only one geek to learn Construction in 49 turns.
Geeks in Mothra and Sashimi becomes taxmen.
Internationally, we're just as popular and welcome as ever. Somewhere between the plague and taxes.
[IBT]
Rome and Mongols sign a trade embargo on us.
Spain wants to talk.
Spain wants us to pay for peace. Notagonnadoit.
Persia and Carthage sign a trade embargo on us.
Persia and France sign a trade embargo on us.
Celts and Russia sign a trade embargo on us.
Saki City: aqueduct -> market in 10.
Indians are building Shakespeare's Theater. (Free Artistry)
Wonderful News
Shakespeare's Theater is built in Delhi, India.
And the cascade:
Persia is building Universal Suffrage. (Industrialization)
Mongols are building Universal Suffrage.
An Iroquois fleet appears to the SE of Kemuri. It is one Caravel and two Frigates.
02 0830 AD
Ao Galley 2 explores the Celtic coast.
Sushi grows and the unhappy citizen becomes a taxman.
Saki City will grow to 7 this IBT; I'll join our spare worker next turn. I don't want to mess up our growth.
Rush the aqueduct in Akichi for 108 of 134 gold.
We can sell Literture to Inca for 17 gold and Monotheism to Byzantines for 46 gold. Doesn't seem to be enough, so I'll wait.
I plan to examine all the wonders at the end of this turnset.
[IBT]
The Iroquois fleet sails westward just outside our southern territorial waters, maybe heading home.
Byzantines and Russia sign a trade embargo on us.
Russia and Aztecs sign an MA vs. us.
We are now at war with the Aztecs.
Sumeria and America sign a trade embargo on us.
Akichi: aqueduct -> worker in 3.
03 0840 AD
Russia is the richest nation with 7868 in gold. Second place goes to the Mongols with 1010.
Ao Galley 2 explores the Celtic coast.
Wake WorkerI, in the middle of the Big Island, and join him to Saki City. Saki City is now size 8; market in 8; grows in 7.
Incan gold is now 9, down from 17; Byzantines are broke. Waiting was not a good idea, at least, not this time.
[IBT]
An Iroquois Frigate appears due north of Ao Galley 2. Not good.
Persia and Aztecs sign a trade embargo on us.
Persia and Russia sign a trade embargo on us.
Sushi: worker -> worker in 4.
Kiiro: aqueduct - > market in 20, (and grows in 1).
04 0850 AD
New worker in Sushi is joined into Sensei.
If the Iroquois Frigate is planning to fight our galley, we cannot stop it. But we try to sail as far away as we can. S (sea, 2 MP), SE (sea, 4 MP) and E (coastal, 6+ MP).
The Frigate is now invisible, even though it is NE of Ratae Coritanorum, and can still find us on the IBT.
Our Incense is now our own again, getting us back to two luxuries.
In Sensei, the new citizen is unhappy; the taxman become a clown. We have no luxuries on our old island home.
And the save is >>HERE<<.
Sell Literature to Maya for 75 of 75 gold.
Hit Enter.
[IBT 0810 AD]
Iroquois fleet sail northwards out of our sight.
Mongols and Portugal sign a trade embargo on us.
Sensei Smurkz: harbor -> aqueduct in 25.
Sushi Smurkz: worker -> worker in 4.
Yamamoto: temple -> harbor in 30.
Wonderful News
Smith's Trading Company is built in Grand River, Iroquois.
And the cascade:
Korea is building Universal Suffrage. (Industrialization)
Spain is building Shakespeare's Theatre. (Free Artistry)
Rome is building Shakespeare's Theatre.
01 0820 AD
Ao grew to 7 on the IBT; the new unhappy citizen becomes a tax collector; market in 14.
New worker in Sushi joins Sensei and becomes a tax collector.
We need 124 gold to rush the Akichi's aqueduct; we have 103.
Ao Galley 2 explores the Celtic coast.
We need only one geek to learn Construction in 49 turns.
Geeks in Mothra and Sashimi becomes taxmen.
Internationally, we're just as popular and welcome as ever. Somewhere between the plague and taxes.
Rome and Mongols sign a trade embargo on us.
Spain wants to talk.
Spain wants us to pay for peace. Notagonnadoit.
Persia and Carthage sign a trade embargo on us.
Persia and France sign a trade embargo on us.
Celts and Russia sign a trade embargo on us.
Saki City: aqueduct -> market in 10.
Indians are building Shakespeare's Theater. (Free Artistry)
Wonderful News
Shakespeare's Theater is built in Delhi, India.
And the cascade:
Persia is building Universal Suffrage. (Industrialization)
Mongols are building Universal Suffrage.
An Iroquois fleet appears to the SE of Kemuri. It is one Caravel and two Frigates.
02 0830 AD
Ao Galley 2 explores the Celtic coast.
Sushi grows and the unhappy citizen becomes a taxman.
Saki City will grow to 7 this IBT; I'll join our spare worker next turn. I don't want to mess up our growth.
Rush the aqueduct in Akichi for 108 of 134 gold.
We can sell Literture to Inca for 17 gold and Monotheism to Byzantines for 46 gold. Doesn't seem to be enough, so I'll wait.
I plan to examine all the wonders at the end of this turnset.
The Iroquois fleet sails westward just outside our southern territorial waters, maybe heading home.
Byzantines and Russia sign a trade embargo on us.
Russia and Aztecs sign an MA vs. us.
We are now at war with the Aztecs.
Sumeria and America sign a trade embargo on us.
Akichi: aqueduct -> worker in 3.
03 0840 AD
Russia is the richest nation with 7868 in gold. Second place goes to the Mongols with 1010.
Ao Galley 2 explores the Celtic coast.
Wake WorkerI, in the middle of the Big Island, and join him to Saki City. Saki City is now size 8; market in 8; grows in 7.
Incan gold is now 9, down from 17; Byzantines are broke. Waiting was not a good idea, at least, not this time.
An Iroquois Frigate appears due north of Ao Galley 2. Not good.
Persia and Aztecs sign a trade embargo on us.
Persia and Russia sign a trade embargo on us.
Sushi: worker -> worker in 4.
Kiiro: aqueduct - > market in 20, (and grows in 1).
04 0850 AD
New worker in Sushi is joined into Sensei.
If the Iroquois Frigate is planning to fight our galley, we cannot stop it. But we try to sail as far away as we can. S (sea, 2 MP), SE (sea, 4 MP) and E (coastal, 6+ MP).
The Frigate is now invisible, even though it is NE of Ratae Coritanorum, and can still find us on the IBT.
Our Incense is now our own again, getting us back to two luxuries.
In Sensei, the new citizen is unhappy; the taxman become a clown. We have no luxuries on our old island home.
And the save is >>HERE<<.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Invention in 46, (one geek learning)
109 gold; +51 gpt; 8.0.2
Wonder Report
I check the Vicotry screen. We are on Turn 200. Our score is 428; Netherlands is the leader at 3001.
However, it looks like Space is the only Victory Condition that is enabled. Which means no UN vote or somr whimpy AI taking a cultural victory.
That is good to know. At least the AI has to leave the planet to win also.
International Report
We have 35 units to support.
We are allowed 20 units of free support.
Support cost per turn: 30 gold (down from 44 gold in 810 AD).
Persia has a fixation with trade embargoes. In just four turns they signed four embargoes.
I think the next turns are more of the same. Build aqueducts and markets, grow our economy and buy our way into the next age.
109 gold; +51 gpt; 8.0.2
Wonder Report
- Pyramids: Persepolis, Persia. (Masonry)
- Hanging Gardens: Istanbul, Ottoman. (Monarchy)
- Colossus: Tiwanaku, Inca. (Bronze Working)
- Great Lighthouse: St. Petersburg, Russia. (Map Making)
- Great Library: Hattusas, Hittite. (Literature)
- Oracle: Hattusas, Hittite. (Mysticism)
- Great Wall: Karakorum, Mongolia. (Construction)
- Sun Tzu's Art of War: Persepolis, Persia. (Feudalism)
- Sistine Chapel: Krasnoyarsk, Russia. (Theology)
- Magellan's Voyage: Mauch Chunk, Iroquois. (Navigation)
- Copernicus' Observatory: Grand River, Iroquois. (Astronomy)
- Shakespeare's Theater: Delhi, Inida. (Free Artistry)
- Leonardo's Workshop: Rotterdam, Netherlands. (Invention)
- JS Bach's Cathedral: Salamanca, Iroquois. (Music Theory)
- Newton's University: Moscow, Russia. (Theory of Gravity)
- Smith's Trading Company: Grand River, Iroquois. (Economics)
- Temple of Artemis: Madrid, Spain. (Polytheism)
- Statue of Zeus: Thebes, Egypt. (Mathematics)
- Mausoleum of Mausollos: Rome, Rome. (Philosophy)
- Knights Templar: Moscow, Russia. (Chivalry)
- Universal Suffrage, under construction: (Industrialization)
- Darhan, Mongolia.
- Kaesong, Korea.
- Persepolis, Persia.
- Novogorod, Russia.
I check the Vicotry screen. We are on Turn 200. Our score is 428; Netherlands is the leader at 3001.
However, it looks like Space is the only Victory Condition that is enabled. Which means no UN vote or somr whimpy AI taking a cultural victory.
That is good to know. At least the AI has to leave the planet to win also.
International Report
War- America - Democracy
- Arabia - Republic
- Aztecs - Monarchy
- Carthage - Democracy
- Egypt - Monarchy
- France - Republic
- Hitties - Democracy
- Iroquois - Democracy
- Portugal - Republic
- Rome - Democracy
- Russia - Communism
- Spain - Democracy
- Babylon - Republic
- Byzantines - Monarchy
- Celts - Republic
- China - Republic
- England - Republic
- Germany - Republic
- Inca - Despotism
- India - Democracy
- Korea - Democracy
- Maya - Monarchy
- Mongols - Democracy
- Netherlands - Republic
- Ottomans - Republic
- Persia - Democracy
- Scandanavia - Republic
- Sumeria - Republic
- Zululand - Republic
We have 35 units to support.
We are allowed 20 units of free support.
Support cost per turn: 30 gold (down from 44 gold in 810 AD).
Persia has a fixation with trade embargoes. In just four turns they signed four embargoes.
I think the next turns are more of the same. Build aqueducts and markets, grow our economy and buy our way into the next age.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
A very nicely played set, CB! 
So funny and so true. Maybe it's because I've never played one of these mondo 30 civ uber-games before, but the number of MA's and embargos signed against us is staggering to me.
I liked how you were making taxmen from the unhappy citizens rather than raising lux. Once we get a city to size 7 (for the increased unit support), growing the city is a little less pressing than saving money. Of course, once we get markets everywhere, it'll be important to have as many people working as possible and minimize the specialists. Until then, though, hiring specialists is probably the way to go to smooth out the unhappy problems. So good job on that.
What's the tech scene looking like? We're doing a min run on Invention, that's good, but now we have two lux available to trade again. Are there any possible deal to move us toward Astronomy? Of course, those embargos are going to be a major pain until they expire.
Space is the only VC enabled, eh? Did not realize that for some reason. That's very interesting...
So funny and so true. Maybe it's because I've never played one of these mondo 30 civ uber-games before, but the number of MA's and embargos signed against us is staggering to me. I liked how you were making taxmen from the unhappy citizens rather than raising lux. Once we get a city to size 7 (for the increased unit support), growing the city is a little less pressing than saving money. Of course, once we get markets everywhere, it'll be important to have as many people working as possible and minimize the specialists. Until then, though, hiring specialists is probably the way to go to smooth out the unhappy problems. So good job on that.
What's the tech scene looking like? We're doing a min run on Invention, that's good, but now we have two lux available to trade again. Are there any possible deal to move us toward Astronomy? Of course, those embargos are going to be a major pain until they expire.
Space is the only VC enabled, eh? Did not realize that for some reason. That's very interesting...
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Roster:
1. Commando Bob- just played
2. eldar- UP
3. donsig- on deck
4. Othniel- waiting
Can you take the next set, eldar? I know you are up in our other SG as well. Even if you can only play 5 that's fine.
1. Commando Bob- just played
2. eldar- UP
3. donsig- on deck
4. Othniel- waiting
Can you take the next set, eldar? I know you are up in our other SG as well. Even if you can only play 5 that's fine.
eldar
ChiefTank
The best I can manage will be the weekend, I can sometimes grab a couple of hours early mornings before my wife and daughter wake up - and we have a long weekend ahead (i.e. Monday's a holiday).
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Cinco de Mayo? in the UK?
No, it's the dreaded May Day! 
I thought it was a joke first, but the Brits celebrate May Day on the first Monday after May 1st.
In Sweden we celebrate 1st of May, the day of Socialism.
I thought it was a joke first, but the Brits celebrate May Day on the first Monday after May 1st.
In Sweden we celebrate 1st of May, the day of Socialism.
eldar
ChiefTank
Yep, it's traditional on the first Monday after May 1 for us to pack ourselves into our cars, head out onto the roads, sit in a traffic jam for hours, then head back home because it's raining wherever it is we were going. (Actually it's a lovely day today. And I'm not stuck in a traffic jam. There are other reasons for me to be upset - like losing a play-off game to our deadly local rivals when we looked like being in a near-impregnable position half an hour from the end of the second leg.)
However: if there's one thing this weekend has taught me, it's that I have far less time on my hands than I think. Therefore with great sadness and regret, I hereby announce my resignation from playing SGs for the foreseeable future - 'cos things are only going to get busier round here in the next few months. The next game I start/sign up to will probably be when I'm firmly established on the other side of the Atlantic....
(That doesn't mean I still won't be hanging around and dishing out bad advice as a lurker!)
However: if there's one thing this weekend has taught me, it's that I have far less time on my hands than I think. Therefore with great sadness and regret, I hereby announce my resignation from playing SGs for the foreseeable future - 'cos things are only going to get busier round here in the next few months. The next game I start/sign up to will probably be when I'm firmly established on the other side of the Atlantic....
(That doesn't mean I still won't be hanging around and dishing out bad advice as a lurker!)
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Newborns will do that to you. They are even more addictive than Civ. "Just one more giggle. Just one more squeal. Just one more smile for Daddy."
Far, far more important than a game.
~~~
You're coming to this side of the pond?
eldar
ChiefTank
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
We'll miss having you in this game, eldar. I hope your move over here goes smoothly!
donsig, can you take a set?
donsig, can you take a set?
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