SGOTM 13 - Smurkz

[Othniel]

I think I can play some turns tonight. I'll go for it, using the thoughts we've expressed so far.

 

[Othniel]

Before I brashly plunge ahead and play some turns, I figured I'd better get the OK for
1) Playing next (Did you want the next set, donsig?)
2) Confirm that the strategy of getting peace + techs for gpt was ok

Let me know...

 

[donsig]

I played the set before CB so you're welcome to this one Othniel.

I think I'd still try to get something from the Ottomans for gpt if they are on the way out.

If civs continue to get eliminated there will be less civs at war with us.

 

[Niklas]

I agree with your assessment Othniel. Techs + peace for gpt means a win-win. Except of course that we don't have that much money, but I don't see any better way.

 

[Othniel]

I agree with your assessment Othniel. Techs + peace for gpt means a win-win. Except of course that we don't have that much money, but I don't see any better way.

Hey Niklas. Good to see you around these parts. Yep, I don't see a better way either, so I'll go with that plan.

@donsig,
Thanks for letting me have next set. I will be sure to squeeze something out of the Ottomans for gpt. I don't want that opportunity to go to waste.

 

[Niklas]

Yeah, I still follow the action though I don't post much. Not much to say really, is there? We try to avoid being killed for as long as possible.

 

[Othniel]

I only had time to do one turn. It was a LONG turn with lots of trading action. I have to leave for a trip tomorrow and probably won't have time for Civ until July comes around. So that means some else will probably want to play a set.

>>Here's<< the new save.

Turnlog:

Spoiler :

Preflight:

Lots of trade scene action.

Somehow we have a busted rep, at least with the Ottomans. Other people seem willing to take our gpt but the Ottomans claim we violated them in the past. So making gpt for tech deals with the Ottomans is out.

We need peace but clearly we don't have enough gpt to pull off many peace deals. The next best thing I can think of is to get one of our enemies to ally with us and then fight the rest of our enemies for us.
With that in mind, I decide to try to ally the Spanish against the Egyptians. They both have ships in our waters; hopefully they will fight each other rather than bombing us.

Before I make any deals, I go through our cities and micro everything for max gpt, even if this means temp starving. I will micro the cities back again once I've made the deals.

Pre-microing gpt of 109. Post-microing, 140 gpt.

Make a deal with Spain. We get peace, MA vs Egypt, and Astronomy for 140gpt and 773gp. A steep price but hopefully Spain breaks the deal soon. Also, interestingly no box popped up saying Spain declares on Egpyt, which means they were already at war...

Trade Aztecs peace, Theology and 325 gp and get Chivalry in return. A couple of embargos are broken.
Trade Aztecs Education and get 328 gp in return. We got all our gold back this way.

Decide to take a risk:
Sign peace with Portugal for 280 gp. An embargo ends.
YES! We can trade them our excess wines and iron.

As I consider what to trade our iron and wines for, I realized that Carthage also needs these goods. I can sign peace with them for cheap, plus get a TM for just a few gp more. Kinda weird that the TM price is so low..

Sign peace with Carthage for 87gp and get a TM in return. No wonder the TM was so cheap, Carthage is a OCC now! Too bad I don't have any gpt left to trade for techs; the Spanish deal took all our gpt. We also can't trade our goods with Carthage as they don't have a harbor. Would risk our rep further if we traded the goods, too.

Wait! I forgot to turn our lux down. We are still at 30%. That clears up 67 gpt more for trade.

I can trade 67 plus 400 gp to Carthage for Banking. England doesn't have Banking yet so we could probably net Navigation or Invention for Banking if we made this trade with Carthage. BUT... if Carthage isn't destroyed soon and the gpt payment cut, we could be in duck soup with our treasury. It's a hard call, but in the end I decide to not do the trade.

Well, after that, our best deal for our goods is with Portugal
Sign an MA with Portugal against Egpyt, give them Iron and Wines for this, and get 304gp, 14gpt, and a TM in return

Our peace deals are improving in price...


For builds, I've taken a step back and tried to look at the bigger picture.
- We now have Astronomy so we can get off our island miliatarily
- We are not going to build enough improvements nor keep enough improvements intact with the bombardment to get us anywhere. I don't even think getting all cities to size 7 will benefit us much right now.

So, plunging ahead, I decide to change all builds to something militarily related: caravels, MDI, or trebuchets. I suspect that the team won't disagree with this choice as we need to take some big risks now that we are in such a hole.

I did let one market and one duct build go ahead as we had too many shields invested to switch.

My idea on builds is this:
- Let's separate out a few cities with high shield capacity to be our main unit producers. These cities get barracks and churn MDI and some pikes. We should assign the majority of our best tiles to these cities.
- Our other cities get assigned mostly sea tiles. They do not get a barracks. If they have a Harbor, put them to building Caravels. If they have no harbor, have them build Trebs.

I propose a force of MDI, pikes, and trebs as the most shield-effecient force we can muster. We can also build SAMURAI now that we have Chivalry, maybe we want to kick off a GA pretty soon or wait until we get cities on the mainland??

For our first target, I propose Portugal. They only have 4 cities left in their core. They do have Cavalry and probably muskets. I also did just sign an iron deal with them so we have 20 turns of peace. Of course, we need time to build up our forces. Also, I got the Portuguese to fight
the powerful Egyptians. Hopefully they will be weakened and become a ripe target.

I micro-ed all cities and restored the lux slider to 30%.

After all this, I finally hit end turn...


IBT
Spain and Arabia sign MA vs Egpyt
SAD TIMES! Carthage is destroyed. I should have risked the trade.
Portugal has now entered the IA, maybe the get rifles soon so I'm not sure they are the best target now
Egyptian and Spanish frigates battle it out as I have a front-row seat

Kiiro Market --> Barracks
Ao Treb --> Caravel

For each new land unit built, I think we should disband a reg warrior to save on unit support.

Time for next player as I've run out of time before my trip. That trading took up so much time. Wow.

Handoff Thoughts:
As I detailed in my turnlog, here's my opinion on what to do next:

1) Build military like crazy, prioritizing our barracks cities by giving them the best tiles to work
2) Disband reg warriors when possible for unit support savings
3) Keep on making peace + tech for gpt deals. If possible combine MA's in with these deals to get our closest neighbors fighting each other. Perhaps an Iroquois vs Persia fight would be good to stir up so we get more frigates off our backs
4) We still have a lone geek run on Invention going. I see no reason to not let it complete unless we can trade for Invention easily and cheaply.

Good luck gents, I'll be checking if and commenting over the next few weeks even though I don't have time to play myself.

EDIT: no pics for now, connection at home too slow on uploads. Dial-up .

 

[donsig]

Lots of trading work there. Thanks for doing all that! Who is up next? I've lost track.

 

[CommandoBob]

Roster:
Othniel - just played
donsig - UP!
Commando Bob - on deck
eldar - lurker
Niklas - lurker
zyxy - lurker
Othniel - warming up

 

[donsig]

It just so happens that I have some time this weekend. I'll try to get a plan up tomorrow with an eye towards playing some turns on Sunday.

 

[donsig]

Long term plan: get off this crazy planet!

Mid-term plan: get a foothold on the continent somewhere.

Turn set plan: Keep from being invaded, reduce our wars, upgrade our military.

I'll follow Othniel's advice to build military and disband warriors were appropriate. Note that we are allowed 20 units (7 are workers) but have 36 so we are paying 32gpt in support costs. We also have 29 tiles to block and 14 cities to protect. If Viking ships show up I will make peace with them for whatever it costs.

We have a tad over 700g but a running a small deficit. Henry is paying us 14gpt but we're paying Isabella 140gpt.

There are 26 adversaries left and we are at war with 20 of them.Sumeria won't talk to us and many other civs want a city for peace. Scandinavia wants 640g for peace so I plan to keep that much gold in reserve if they appear on the horizon. Babylon, France and China are also in that range for peace. Joan would take 240g. The Byzantines want only monotheism for peace. If the Vikes show up I am inclined to give the Byzantines monotheism as that will lower the cost of peace with other civs. Might even be worth making peace with Joan and then peace with the Vikings in this scenario.

Basically, for ten turns I'll just be trying to avoid more wars, make any lucrative peace deals that come our way and upgrade our military.

Plan to play in about 24 hours so if you want to improve this plan please speak up before then!

 

[CommandoBob]

The only other item I would be looking for in peace deal is World Map. Normally these things are worthless in game, but not here.

The reason for the WM is mostly to see where the Vikings live and if they have a navy. No navy, then no need to keep cash back for peace. A secondary reason would be to make our MAs more effective by getting neighbors to fight neighbors.

 

[donsig]

The save.

Summary:

• Lost some more improvements to frigate bombardment.
• Managed not to get invaded, though a galley, caravel and galleon appeared.
• A Hittite destroyer is in sight.
• Near the end of the set more civs declared war on us, including Portugal.
• Our financial state is miserable.
• We have invention (traded astronomy for it).

The turn log:

Spoiler :

Pre-flight: No changes. 1060 AD, 739g, -5gpt, invention in 26 turns.

IBT:

Spain and Rome sign an embargo against us.
Maya and Iroquois sign an embargo against us.
Spain and England sign an embargo against us.
Spain and India sign an embargo against us.
Akichi completes barracks.
Civil disorder in Ao!?!
We're shelled by 2 American, 3 Persian and 8 Iroquois frigates. Only units were hit. A

brown (Spanish?) frigate was sunk.

Turn 1: 1070 AD (turn 222)

4 workers start roads.
Akichi set to pikeman.
Taxman hired in Ao to quell the riots. :crazeyeye:
Peace with Joan is now 260g. It went up 20g!
729g, -9gpt, invention in 25.

IBT:

Spain and Persia embargo ended. (Hmm, where those messages last turn about new embargos or

expiring embargos? )
Ottomans and Frtance sign an embargo against us.
More bombardments. The Persians destroyed Ao's market and temple. Guess that taxman isn't

going to help after all.
Sensei Smurkz builds barracks, starts pikeman.
Nibanme Smurkz builds caravel and starts another.
Kemuri builds barracks and starts a pikeman.
Civil disorder in Akichi and Ao.
Saki City build MDI, starts a samurai.
Bahitsu builds parracks and starts a pikeman.
Gojira builds aqueduct and starts a barracks.

Turn 2: 1080 AD (turn 223)

Started another road. Moved new MDI towards Ao.
Switched Ao to temple. Switched taxman to clown.
Akichi swiched to temple. No roads into this city either now. Hired a clown.
Peace with France back to 240g.
716g, -21gpt, invention in 24.

IBT:
More bombardments. Looks like Nibanme Smurkz lost its harbor.

Turn 3: 1090 AD (turn 224)

Switched Nibanme Smurkz to temple. Also had to fire the scientist.
Hired a scientist in Kiiro, switched to trebuchet.
Moves units into Gojira, Kemuri, Bahitsu, Sushi and Sensei to protect buildings. This

exposes the coast.
Switched Yamamoto to pikeman.
Fired taxman in Saki City.
Peace with Joan back to 260g.
696g, -10gpt, invention in 23.

IBT:

Embargo by Maya and Hittites has ended.
Embargo by Maya and Mongols has ended.
Persians bombed Nibanme back to size 1.

Turn 4: 1100 ad (TURN 225)

Fired clown in Akichi since road is reconnected.
Fired taxman in Saki City.
Move more units into cities. Coast almost bare now except for workers.
675g, -18gpt, invention in 22 turns.

IBT:

Spain and the Celts sign an embargo against us.
Spain and the Byzantines sign an embargo against us.
The embargo by the Maya and Persia has ended.
Gojira builds barracks and starts pikeman.
Mothra builds harbor and starts a temple.
More bombing, of course. The hit the grapes that had just been reconnected.

Turn 5: 1110 AD (turn 226)

Our gold is getting rather low compared to the cost of peace with the Vikings (640g).
658g, -16gpt, invention in 21.

IBT:

Spain and the Netherlands sign an embargo.
The embargo by the Ottomans and France.
The Dutch have destroyed the Ottomans.
Spain and Hittites embargo us.
Spain and Babylon embargo us.
Sensei makes a pike and starts another.

Turn 6: 1120 AD (turn 227)

Trade astronomy to Montezuma for invention.
Price for Scandinavian peace down to 420g.
642g, -12gpt, gunpowder in 50 turns.

IBT:

Aztecs and Mongols sign embargo.
More bombing. Iroquios caravel is sight!
Maya and Egypt sign embargo.
American galley shows up!
Inca and India embargo us.

Turn 7: 1130 AD (turn 228)

Ok, there is also an American galleon being escorted by frigates. Time to block the coast

again.
Switched Bahitsu to harbor.
627g, -9gpt, gunpowder in 49.

IBT:

Maya and Rome embargo us.
Hiawatha convinces the Maya to declare war on us.
More bombing. The Iroquois caravel sails away.
China wants to talk. Mao offers peace for 560g. Not now.
Americans hit another grass tile but their galleon and galley sail away.
Kemuri makes a pikeman and starts another.
Bahitsu builds a harbor and starts a temple.

Turn 8: 1140 AD (turn 229)

There's a Spanish galley and two frigates in sight. We are still at peace with Isabella.
Peace with France up to 300g. Can still make peace with Byzantines for momotheism.
611g, -19gpt, gunpowder in 48.
Trade our WM for Portugal's TM.
Move units into cities on small island. Leave big island blocked.

IBT:

More bombing.
Mongols and Portugal sign an alliance agianst us. There goes our 14gpt income.
The Russians and Aztecs have allied against us.
Spain and Russia embargo us.
Saki City makes a samurai and starts another.
Satsuma makes a trebuchet and starts another.

Turn 9: 1150 AD (turn 230)

There is a Hittite destroyer in sight.

Hand off note:

I haven't done anything on the current turn - been at it 4 hours by the time I got there. We need get to the point where we are done paying 140gpt to Spain.

 

[Othniel]

Well done keeping us alive, donsig.

A few comments without looking at the save:

I think I'm against building any more temples or other improvements for the time being, barracks excepted. Our only real hope is to get a huge army ASAP. That means pouring every shield possible into units and boats. We're likely to lose the improvements to bombardment anyway.

I'd much prefer building MDI over pikes and samurai. We need offensive units so that favors MDI over pikes. MDI are also better than Samurai in that we get 4 attack for a lot cheaper. The only reason I see to build a Samurai or two is to start a Golden Age, and I'm not even sure we want a GA any time soon.

The caravels and galleys are showing up because our coast is not blocked completely. Not a big deal because we should be able to re-block, but just stating a fact for the record.

It's okay that Portugal declared on us. That cuts our Iron and Wines shipments to them. The important thing is that they are still at war with Egypt (they are, right?). That way Portugal is being weakened if we want to invade them soon.

Does raising the lux slider a notch enable us to fire a bunch of specialists?

 

[CommandoBob]

Roster:
donsig - just played
CommandoBob- UP!
Othniel - on deck
eldar - lurker
Niklas - lurker
zyxy - lurker
donsig - warming up

I might be able to get a strategy post done this evening. It will just tell us things we know, but maybe, just maybe, something will connect in some cerebal, mystic manner and enlighten us on finding the path to success in this game.

To dream the impossible dream....

More troops, blockade the coast and check for peace trades seem to be the order of business/survival, at least for the next 10 turns. Details to follow...

 

[CommandoBob]

Gunpowder in 47
580 gold; -35 gpt; 7.0.3

State of Smurkz 1150 AD

Diplomacy: War

1. Mongols: war (peace = Gojira)
2. Russia: war (peace = Nibanme Smurkz)
3. Hittites: war (peace = Kemuri)
4. Korea: war (peace = Gojira )
5. Persia: war (peace = Nibanme Smurkz)
6. China: war (peace = Bahitsu)
7. Netherlands: war (peace = Bahitsu)
8. Scandanavia: war (peace = 480 of 580 gold)
9. Sumeria: war (peace = Gojira)
10. America: war (peace = Gojira)
11. Arabia: war (peace = Bahitsu)
12. England: war (peace = 520 of 580 gold)
13. Celts: war (peace = Gojira)
14. Babylon: war (peace = 540 of 580 gold)
15. Rome: war (peace = 440 of 580 gold)
16. France: war (peace = 360 of 580 gold)
17. Egypt: war (no peace; MA with Spain vs. Egypt)
18. India: war (peace = Gojira)
19. Bzyantines: war (peace = Monotheism)
20. Iroquois: war (peace = Gojira)
21. Maya: war (refused envoy)
22. Portugal: war (refused envoy)
23. Aztecs: war (refused envoy)

Diplomacy: Peace

1. Inca
2. Spain

We are smarter than the Inca and the Byzantines. Both are still in the Ancient Age.

We have a ten deal with Egypt and Spain; 140 gpt to Spain in order for Spain to MA with us vs. Egypt.

Of the five nations we can buy off, (Scandanavia, England, Babylon, Rome and France), none will accept GPT for peace.

France does have an oddball deal. If we MA with France against Egypt, peace drops to WM and 208 gold. They will not MA on anyone else, just Egypt.

French Peace Deal 1150 AD

Spoiler :

Egypt has 20 cities, France 14.

This looks to be the best peace deal on the table, if we don't mind an extra 10 turns of war with Egypt.

Map of France and Egypt

Spoiler :

City Report:
Saki City (10): vSamuri in 7, grows in 16.
Bahitsu (5): temple in 14, grows in 2.
Gojira (5): vPike in 2, grows in 1.
Yamamoto (6): rPike in 1, grows in 9999.
Mothra (2): temple in 6, grows in 5.
Satsuma (6): trebuchet in 10, grows in 9999.
Sashimi (3): trebuchet in 2, grows in 2.
Sensei Smurkz (6): vPike in 1, zero growth.
Ninbanme Smurkz (2): temple in 8, grows in 17.
Sushi Smurkz (6): vCaravel in 13, grows in 9999.
Kemuri (5): vPike in 4, grows in 18.
Akichi (6): temple in 3, grows in 4.
Ao (9): temple in 3, grows in 17.
Kiiro (9): trebuchet in 3, grows in 37.

City Builds
vSamuri [1] (Saki City)
temple [5] (Bahitsu, Mothra, Ninbanme, Akichi and Ao)
vPike [3] (Gojira, Sensei and Kemuri)
rPike [2] (Yamamoto)
trebuchet [3] (Satsuma, Sashimi and Kiiro)
vCaravel [1] (Sushi)


Next Builds (net shields):
Saki City (11 spt): vSamuri in 7 -> vPike in 3, vMace.
Bahitsu (2 spt): temple in 14 -> vMace in 14.
Gojira (6 spt): vPike in 2, vPike, vMace.
Yamamoto (1 spt): rPike in 1, rMace in 30.
Mothra (3 spt): temple in 6 -> rMace in 6, rMace.
Satsuma (3 spt): trebuchet in 10.
Sashimi (3 spt): trebuchet in 2, trebuchet in 10.
Sensei Smurkz (9 spt): vPike in 1 , vPike, vPike (one for each city on the Old Island)
Ninbanme Smurkz (2 spt): temple in 8 -> rMace in 8.
Sushi Smurkz (2 spt): vCaravel in 13.
Kemuri (6 spt): vPike in 4 -> vMace
Akichi (3 spt): temple in 3 -> vPike in 3, vMace
Ao (3 spt): temple in 3 -> rMace in 3, rMace.
Kiiro (2 spt): trebuchet in 3, trebuchet.

We can tinker with Sensei; it needs only 3 shields to complete the vPike. We can swap tiles around, only net 3 shields and put some food in the food box. One more food and one more gold. Then we work the cow, the hill and Iron for 9spt again.


Next Citizens:
Saki City (10): grows in 16.
Bahitsu (5): grows in 2 -> coastal tile.
Gojira (5): grows in 1 -> coastal tile.
Yamamoto (6): grows in 9999.
Mothra (2): grows in 5 -> coastal tile.
Satsuma (6): grows in 9999.
Sashimi (3): grows in 2 -> coastal tile.
Sensei Smurkz (6): zero growth.
Ninbanme Smurkz (2): grows in 17.
Sushi Smurkz (6): grows in 9999.
Kemuri (5): grows in 18.
Akichi (6): grows in 4 -> coastal tile, maybe grass if fixed up.
Ao (9): grows in 17.
Kiiro (9): grows in 37.


Smurkz Military:
07 Worker
12 Warrior
01 Spear
07 Chariot
08 Pike
01 Galley
02 Caravels
01 Samurai
01 Mace
02 Trebuchets

Allowed units: 20
Total units: 42
Unit support: 44 gold per turn

Most of our military is on our shores as we turtle down and prevent an AI invasion.

We might be able to disband some Warriors as we build more Pikes (first) and then Maces. I would like to try to have a vPike in each city to protect the improvements from bombardment. Even Warriors can serve as targets, so they may have a usefulness anyway. We do need Maces to project offense but their defense of 2 won't help defend our cities from shelling. That's why Pikes first, then Maces.

Resources
02 Wines
01 Incense
01 Horse
02 Iron

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Strategy of Smurkz:

Long Term Goals: To "smart" our way off this planet.

Mid Term Goals: Learn Gunpowder

Short Term Goals/Tasks:

• Build units.
• Repair damage.
• Look for peace.

 

[donsig]

I think we need more than one vet pike per city if we want to prevent building damage. We were getting hit by multiple ships per turn and more steel ships may appear soon.

That's an interesting French deal. I suggest that if we want to do that we give monotheism to the Byzantines first since that my drop the peace price across the board.

 

[eldar]

Hmm, I would question why we're still at war with the Byzantines in the first place - we are way smarter than they, so being at peace with them will give us perhaps more trading chances. If they get Guns, we have Theo to give them. So definitely do the deal with Theo.

My next suggestion is possibly the way others have been thinking. And it probably requires Guns.

Play this game like it's Sid.

 

[CommandoBob]

Play this game like it's Sid.

I've never played at Sid-level, so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[eldar]

I've never played Sid either, but I think a Sid-like mindset (from what I've read) as far as an invasion is concerned will be necessary.

Basically pile a huge stack of defenders onto a hill, found a city, rush walls, and sit back and watch the AI ping. The only difficulty here is they'll likely be hitting with Cavs - so the number of defenders required may be prohibitive.