Yes, but are these synonyms for sexual intercourse?
SGOTM 13 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
Go read Jingo, you horrible little man!
I've been reading the tea leaves (the graphs), and it is interesting the different choices made.
Plastic Ducks & Unusual Suspects - Fishing -> Mining -> BW.
Maple Sporks & Gypsy Kings - Fishing -> Mining -> Sailing -> BW.
TNT - Fishing -> Mining -> BW -> AH ?????
Phoenix Rising - Fishing -> Mining -> Sailing
edit : Most of the teams are prioritising BW (look at the power graph), I still think we should get it after Oracle techs, but it is not too late to change.
Plastic Ducks & Unusual Suspects - Fishing -> Mining -> BW.
Maple Sporks & Gypsy Kings - Fishing -> Mining -> Sailing -> BW.
TNT - Fishing -> Mining -> BW -> AH ?????
Phoenix Rising - Fishing -> Mining -> Sailing
edit : Most of the teams are prioritising BW (look at the power graph), I still think we should get it after Oracle techs, but it is not too late to change.
Trystero
Deity
This isn't entirely surprising since the capital has not a lot of production, and a lot of food. We were going to do the same thing until we decided to prioritize getting the Oracle. We've already invested in researching Mysticism and Meditation, I think we should stick with the plan.
I am about to play the next 10 turns (researching Priesthood). Should I wait for more feedback?
Yeah, stick with the plan, IMO. Especially since we have already got Myst/Med. PH is only 8 turns away.
Trystero
Deity
OK - I played up to turn 70. The settler is finished next turn and can board the galley with the worker. I have not uploaded the save, but could do so if needed.
Nothing remarkable has happened so far. We have not met any AIs yet, and no signs of barb activity (animal or otherwise). No event log activity at all, actually. We researched Priesthood and started BW.
Here is what the new exploration has revealed:
There is Marble to the SW, but I don't think we have enough information to send the settler there.
Edit: Neil - Why are we planning on building a monument in the capital? Is it for the Charismatic happiness bonus? And why before we finish the Oracle? Sorry if I missed this earlier. I am beginning to think that we need to give greater emphasis to exploration. We are going to want to find better places to settle soon.
I also didn't rename the capital yet. I think I will name it Leshp in deference to Brian. Maybe we can name the second city Krull... (we need a list of potential city names)
Nothing remarkable has happened so far. We have not met any AIs yet, and no signs of barb activity (animal or otherwise). No event log activity at all, actually. We researched Priesthood and started BW.
Here is what the new exploration has revealed:
Spoiler :
There is Marble to the SW, but I don't think we have enough information to send the settler there.
Edit: Neil - Why are we planning on building a monument in the capital? Is it for the Charismatic happiness bonus? And why before we finish the Oracle? Sorry if I missed this earlier. I am beginning to think that we need to give greater emphasis to exploration. We are going to want to find better places to settle soon.
I also didn't rename the capital yet. I think I will name it Leshp in deference to Brian. Maybe we can name the second city Krull... (we need a list of potential city names)
Very nice, the forest W of the cap will also make a half decent city. Clams, Marble, GH....
Why build Monument during building Oracle, simple, it is free.
The +1 happiness cancels out the -1 whip, and the overflow hammers are equivalent to if we never stopped building Oracle. We would go into unhappiness at pop 7 anyway, so it makes more sense to whip before we get to size 7.
Trust me, Oracle is not finished any later.
@ exploration, we could:
1) send the galley off now (after dropping settler/worker), and not worry about chopping the forest.
OR
2) Leave worker at 'Paris', as there is not much for the worker to do on the other island until Masonry &/or a border pop.
Actually, I think I would leave the worker. If we settle W grassland, there is nothing for him to do anyway. The chop saves 2 or 3 turns off Oracle, so I think it is worthwhile.
edit: leaving the worker at Paris means the Galley can go exploring after dropping the settler off. As you say, early exploration is very important.
Why build Monument during building Oracle, simple, it is free.
The +1 happiness cancels out the -1 whip, and the overflow hammers are equivalent to if we never stopped building Oracle. We would go into unhappiness at pop 7 anyway, so it makes more sense to whip before we get to size 7.
Trust me, Oracle is not finished any later.
@ exploration, we could:
1) send the galley off now (after dropping settler/worker), and not worry about chopping the forest.
OR
2) Leave worker at 'Paris', as there is not much for the worker to do on the other island until Masonry &/or a border pop.
Actually, I think I would leave the worker. If we settle W grassland, there is nothing for him to do anyway. The chop saves 2 or 3 turns off Oracle, so I think it is worthwhile.
edit: leaving the worker at Paris means the Galley can go exploring after dropping the settler off. As you say, early exploration is very important.
Neil, you did a lot of testing on getting out Metal Casting fastest by leaving BW until after we start on the Oracle. I agree that this was definitely a good move. No need for second guessing.
I don't know man. I just don't know. Everywhere is lame looking. I'm going to vote for the desert tile on the eastern island that gets the pig, fish, and desert hill in the small cross. We can skip the monument for a while grow to size 5/6 building workboats/galleys whip out a worker/settler down to size 3 rinse repeat. Also, I'm hopeful there will be iron on the eastern desert tile.
. Pllllleeeeease game designers. It would be SUPER lame if we settle on the wrong desert tile. I'm actually now super convinced that either copper or iron is on one of those desert tiles. I vote for this city site because everywhere else just takes too long to get decent as we need monuments and and then growth (that's what monument build time + 15 turns). I realize that we don't have AH yet, but I still think it's fastest. If somebody who understands how to use worldbuilder wants to edit our current test save to get us up to this point that would be AWESOME!
Trystero
Deity
Thanks. I knew there would be a good reason for building the monument. And I would not have considered calculating the cost in whip hammers. I learned something new.
I favor the W grassland (1N of the stone) for city #2. I am also in favor of leaving the worker behind to chop for the Oracle and exploring with the galley. I presume the first build would be a monument to claim the fish tile as soon as possible.
I think I will upload the save, as we should probably pause to modify the test save and update the micro spreadsheet (we need a column for the second city). Somehow my autolog was disabled, so I don't have one to post. But as I said, the only thing it would report is discovering PH on turn 69.
edit: x-post with Benginal. I will have to consider his proposal.
edit2: I have uploaded the save. Here is the SGOTM uploader log in its entirety:
I favor the W grassland (1N of the stone) for city #2. I am also in favor of leaving the worker behind to chop for the Oracle and exploring with the galley. I presume the first build would be a monument to claim the fish tile as soon as possible.
I think I will upload the save, as we should probably pause to modify the test save and update the micro spreadsheet (we need a column for the second city). Somehow my autolog was disabled, so I don't have one to post. But as I said, the only thing it would report is discovering PH on turn 69.
edit: x-post with Benginal. I will have to consider his proposal.
edit2: I have uploaded the save. Here is the SGOTM uploader log in its entirety:
I think I still like 1N of the stone, or the forest island W of Paris.
With no masonry & no AH, the only resources we can make use of are the seafood. Settling next to either fish (to get it in the inner ring), restricts where else we can settle on that island. So, any city on the E island, will require a Monument.
A city on the forest island does not need a monument to work clams & a GH.
A city 1N of stone can borrow the GH mine to finish Monument asap.
We still need to determine the REX/Colossus strategy, ie. does the cap build settlers or Colossus.
This will require some extensive testing, to see what works best.
With no masonry & no AH, the only resources we can make use of are the seafood. Settling next to either fish (to get it in the inner ring), restricts where else we can settle on that island. So, any city on the E island, will require a Monument.
A city on the forest island does not need a monument to work clams & a GH.
A city 1N of stone can borrow the GH mine to finish Monument asap.
We still need to determine the REX/Colossus strategy, ie. does the cap build settlers or Colossus.
This will require some extensive testing, to see what works best.
Trystero
Deity
The problem is that of timing. We can't borrow the GH mine immediately after settling the second city because those hammers are needed for the Oracle.
Agreed. I've edited my post above to indicate I've uploaded the save to the SGOTM site, while we do more testing before I finish my turn set.
Not if we settle on the western desert tile and then put our second East Island city on the jungle tile at the southern tip of the island.
Yes indeedy.
Thanks Trystero, lots of cross-posting going on (I just can't type fast enough)
I will attempt to edit the test save tonight, so we can do some tests on it.
Good point. My first inclination is to try and get some hammers, but food first could work out very well.
I will attempt to edit the test save tonight, so we can do some tests on it.
Good point. My first inclination is to try and get some hammers, but food first could work out very well.
Alamankarazieff
Warlord
Good job exploring ! Now we have lots of decisions to make.
We could start by wondering what do we want our first cities to do. City 2 is not about copper yet (nor iron). City 3 probably will be.
If we continue with the colossus strategy, then we need city 2 to pump some settlers and workers, hence, food and hammers.
This is emperor and the maintenance costs are going to be heavy (not toroidal immortal heavy, because that is just brutal) but still, if we don't want to gimp our research early on, we want city 2 to be close.
We could also consider the forest on the west island (under our wishful copper) : it has immediate clam access for growth, a GH and future marble (and marble is good).
Western grassland will need a monument for food and until masonry won't have that good hammers.
Desert without animal husbandry could be better, but the metal worry seems genuine.
I'm kinda of in favour of the W forest, but testing is the word.
We could start by wondering what do we want our first cities to do. City 2 is not about copper yet (nor iron). City 3 probably will be.
If we continue with the colossus strategy, then we need city 2 to pump some settlers and workers, hence, food and hammers.
This is emperor and the maintenance costs are going to be heavy (not toroidal immortal heavy, because that is just brutal) but still, if we don't want to gimp our research early on, we want city 2 to be close.
We could also consider the forest on the west island (under our wishful copper) : it has immediate clam access for growth, a GH and future marble (and marble is good).
Western grassland will need a monument for food and until masonry won't have that good hammers.
Desert without animal husbandry could be better, but the metal worry seems genuine.
I'm kinda of in favour of the W forest, but testing is the word.
Trystero
Deity
For reference, here is a dot map of the city locations under discussion:
I tend to agree with Benginal's initial "Everywhere is lame" analysis of our options. The best city site visible has at most 6 land tiles available. We really could use more information. Unfortunately we are 13 turns from BW.
Spoiler :
I tend to agree with Benginal's initial "Everywhere is lame" analysis of our options. The best city site visible has at most 6 land tiles available. We really could use more information. Unfortunately we are 13 turns from BW.
Good thoughts, maintenance should be OK once we have Colossus. At least it was OK in my testing. It is interesting to see everyones inclinations. I have generally thought that city 2 could build Colossus, but it seems several others saw the cap doing it.
The appearance of that Marble makes me think...... should city 2 go onto that island. Its the clams that tempts me, Paris can build a WB after Oracle, and the city could be up and running quite quickly.
BTW, strategic resources, ie copper, iron, horses, coal..... never appear under forests.
Forests/jungle can grow on lots of resource types, but never strategic resources.
The test save is pretty good. I moved the galley slightly diffeently, so we haven't got exactly the right fog. Also, a random event took away 5 food from Paris, so we will have to remember this. You never know, it might make all the difference in the world.
Happy testing everyone.
edit: Test save won't attach, I will sort it out in a bit.
edit 2: here it is.
test save
The appearance of that Marble makes me think...... should city 2 go onto that island. Its the clams that tempts me, Paris can build a WB after Oracle, and the city could be up and running quite quickly.
BTW, strategic resources, ie copper, iron, horses, coal..... never appear under forests.
Forests/jungle can grow on lots of resource types, but never strategic resources.
The test save is pretty good. I moved the galley slightly diffeently, so we haven't got exactly the right fog. Also, a random event took away 5 food from Paris, so we will have to remember this. You never know, it might make all the difference in the world.
Happy testing everyone.
edit: Test save won't attach, I will sort it out in a bit.
edit 2: here it is.
test save
drlake
Emperor
I still like splitting the Eastern isle N/S, rather than sticking a city in the middle of it that will share a hill with our current cap. If we do that, I'd probably go with the fish/pig next, though we'll have to insert AH into our research order soon. That'll give us a moderately productive settler/worker pump in the short run, while the cap remains the production center and is the planned location for the Colossus.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
I think the best option at the moment is to see which site gives us the best oracle time. Remember long term we want these island cities to be backwaters of our empire.
So I think test oracle building at the cap, and any of the other sites to see which does the best return.
One problem I see with the clam site is that to get access to the marble bonus, we'll have to fort the site and road it, as quarries without direct access to a city don't count (unless I'm missing something) for trade route. And the island with the marble is a 2 tiler, look at the bleed into the fog if you doubt me, so not much good for anything unless it's got 2 of it's own seafoods in the fog.
So I think test oracle building at the cap, and any of the other sites to see which does the best return.
One problem I see with the clam site is that to get access to the marble bonus, we'll have to fort the site and road it, as quarries without direct access to a city don't count (unless I'm missing something) for trade route. And the island with the marble is a 2 tiler, look at the bleed into the fog if you doubt me, so not much good for anything unless it's got 2 of it's own seafoods in the fog.
We need to test to Colossus, to see when we get it and how many cities we have when we get it.
I think we have 4 options for the location of city 2, 1N of stone, 2S of stone, between pigs/fish, forest W of Paris. One requires AH, the other 3 need masonry.
The worker is the other option of course, to take it with settler, or to leave it with Paris.
I think we have 4 options for the location of city 2, 1N of stone, 2S of stone, between pigs/fish, forest W of Paris. One requires AH, the other 3 need masonry.
The worker is the other option of course, to take it with settler, or to leave it with Paris.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
No point doing that until we know if we have copper or not surely.
