SGOTM 13 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't

Ok, so this is an official and slightly scared "Got it". I'm getting on it now. On the Guinness made test save (which is Buffyless, argh, this mod is addictive), barbarian galleys show up really quickly, so having a couple of hammers ready in a trireme is worth it, so we can whip it quick.
 
Ok done up to turn 115 since it's decision time.

I don't think I mucked up too much, I lost 1 worker turn and 2 turns of library build (forgot to switch when I discovered it.)

I'm going to try to post a few screenshots, but I'm not really good at it.

Spoiler :
First, on a narrative side, nothing much happened. Our eastern scout encountered the next AI, Catherine. We ended up actually finding her territory, since the other two are just rumors. We suppose they exist, but we don't have proof of that.
We finally decided to put young girls on drugs, and when completely high they started babbling about the great flow of metal that should be driven into a pot, so that we can give it shape, like the Gods did, and then make a giant statue of Apollo above the harbor, and it will hold a torch and... We stopped listening to her quickly as it was getting tiresome and she was really smashed, but we still noted it down for later use. Who knows...
We built a granary and a monument in the capital, before starting a galley. The second city built a lighthouse and a warrior before starting a settler at population 3. The new galley started exploring west and didn't find copper but what looks like a no brainer site for city 4.
Unfortunately, it also found not one but two barbarians galleys. A trireme was whipped in an emergency, leaving the capital at 2 pop with many unhappy citizens. The settler was still coming out in a reasonable time, so we moved on to do it. The galleys chased the galley, leaving time for the trireme to explore a tiny bit more of this island.
City 2 popped out its settler, which settled near the stone.
Writing was done before masonry : a mine or a quarry give the same yield. Having writing in time allowed us to sign open borders with Catherine and continue exploration and possible circumnavigation. She seems to be on a fairly big landmass (and conquering most of it). Maybe we will need a ballsy move to go grab some.
City 3 started building its monument in order to grow with the fish.
City 2 went on building its library to run scientists to get the academy.
I ran a test till 0 before playing the game, and it goes quite smoothly, with a really good bpt rate.
I think the capital should now start the colossus.
As of now, the settler is in the galley, so as to not lose a turn. It's kind of in the direction of the ideal site, because I was suppose to end all moves. The trireme is holding the line against the galley (one disappeared), I'll let someone else be blamed for bad luck when our trireme lose its fight...



Ok here is the log :

Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1950 BC to 1125 BC:

Turn 82, 1950 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 82, 1950 BC: Napoleon adopts Slavery!

Turn 89, 1775 BC: You have discovered Pottery!
Turn 89, 1775 BC: Stonehenge has been built in a far away land!

Turn 92, 1700 BC: Napoleon has completed The Oracle!

Turn 93, 1675 BC: You have discovered Metal Casting!

Turn 96, 1600 BC: Judaism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 99, 1525 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!

Turn 107, 1325 BC: You have trained a Trireme in Paris. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 109, 1275 BC: You have discovered Writing!

Turn 110, 1250 BC: Lyons has been founded.
Turn 110, 1250 BC: Victoria adopts Slavery!

Turn 113, 1175 BC: Orleans has grown to size 3.
Turn 113, 1175 BC: Catherine has founded Rostov in a distant land.

Turn 114, 1150 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Paris!

Turn 115, 1125 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Paris!
Turn 115, 1125 BC: Paris will grow to size 3 on the next turn.


So yes, Stonehenge is not on the table anymore, but our cities are pretty busing rexing anyway. Let's do a lame attempt at pictures now.
...

Ok not succeeding at all, I could use a little howto. cité 4.JPG

catherine.JPG

nous.JPG

le fouet.JPG

Well, this will have to do for now. Yes, we whipped... creatively. We also have open borders with Joao since he asked politely. And I believe in manners.
Building a WB right now to kick start the new city, but should get going on forge and Colossus, especially if we get gold.
 
Alaman, as regards the pics, you're better off hosting them off CFC, you've only got 30MB here and that's precious. Go to somewhere like Photobucket, Imageshare, or Dropbox and sign up. You can then cut and paste using the {img}{/img} tags (square instead of curly brackets).

As regards the report could you get the BUFFY one too. You can set up the game to auto-start the log, through the options (Ctrl+O), not sure which tab or choice but IIRC it's pretty obvious.

Game is looking good from the screenies, the biggest difference atm is the culture rating (obviously getting this from the SGOTM site), which leads me to believe the leaders went with Stonehenge for the free border pops. But score is too early to predict a winner yet.
 
Bad luck about 2 barb galleys showing up, thats pretty early, getting the trireme out hurt but was necessary.

Very much agree about city site west, looks awesome, we have to settle this asap.
City 2 should maybe change to a settler at pop 4.

Did the AI have Writing before us?
 
On the Guinness made test save (which is Buffyless, argh, this mod is addictive), barbarian galleys show up really quickly, so having a couple of hammers ready in a trireme is worth it, so we can whip it quick.

Sorry - I forgot to make the map in BUFFY (I was drinking!), but I normally use BUG, which is incorporated into BUFFY and gives the same information. I recommend trying it out.

I'm going to try to post a few screenshots, but I'm not really good at it.

As Brian mentioned, it is best to use an external host. You can then post a link to image on CFC using the "Insert image" function. I've had good luck with Photobucket.

Also, in addition to setting BUFFY to autolog, you should make sure you set the autosave interval to 1 turn, and increase the number of autosaves retained before deleting to at least 20.

As far as the turnset went: It looks good! I agree other teams probably went for the stone city and SH first, given the Organized bonus from Monuments. But we also apparently whipped a lot, which decreased our score. And that Western gold city site looks nice. The gold would certainly help our research rate. I think our REX plan was the right way to go. I'll have a look at the save when I get home.

Edit:

A few observations/questions:

1. If we are going to build the Colossus we should settle the copper site soon(ish). The gold could help pay for that.

2. Why are we teching Masonry? I thought the plan was to go for Alphabet after Writing? Are you thinking we should try for the Pyramids in the stone city?

3. We should open borders with Victoria and Joao if possible for diplomatic benefits.

4. Catherine has the GLH, yikes. We should expand toward the large islands between her and ourselves.

5. Monuments in Paris and Orleans would help with unhappiness.

6. Brian's new avatar scares me.
 
We're teching masonry to get full advantage of the stones, and a discount on Moai and possible access to the marble. But yes, it wasn't an absolute necessity right now, since a mine and a quarry give the same yield (which actually strikes me as really weird.)

We were first to get writing, so they're not going for alphabet anytime soon. Still, I think currency is a priority. It makes a HUGE difference when it kicks in.

We could indeed open borders with everyone and start the group hug. As of now, we didn't have enough cities to need the extra routes, so no harm done.

I believe I whipped a monument somewhere in the build queue in Paris. Or maybe not... Orleans doesn't need it yet.

I still don't know about the copper site, it's unbelieveably horsehockey for about 10 or 15 turns of production gained. Which is something, sure... This DOES require testing.
 
Looks good. We have some decisions to make. I realize I'm up next so I suppose I will take a break from my life and come back to civ for a little while. It's probably necessary since I haven't played in over a week and am starting to suffer from withdrawal.
 
We're teching masonry to get full advantage of the stones, and a discount on Moai and possible access to the marble. But yes, it wasn't an absolute necessity right now, since a mine and a quarry give the same yield (which actually strikes me as really weird.)

I hadn't considered the Moai (since usually I try to avoid working a lot of water tiles), that's a good point. But unless we were going to start them soon, I think I would have prioritized Alphabet. But no great harm done.

We were first to get writing, so they're not going for alphabet anytime soon. Still, I think currency is a priority. It makes a HUGE difference when it kicks in.

Yeah, exactly. Also Alphabet lets us see if anyone else has MC, which would be helpful after we start the Colossus. Since we are getting a GP in 50 turns, it might be worthwhile to go Alpha > Currency > CoL to see if we can grab Confucianism.

We could indeed open borders with everyone and start the group hug. As of now, we didn't have enough cities to need the extra routes, so no harm done.

Since it takes time to get the diplo bonus, I usually open borders as soon as feasible, unless there is good reason not to.

I believe I whipped a monument somewhere in the build queue in Paris. Or maybe not... Orleans doesn't need it yet.

No monuments yet. I only mentioned it, because we are Organized and get no unhappiness if we 1 pop whip monuments.

I still don't know about the copper site, it's unbelieveably horsehockey for about 10 or 15 turns of production gained. Which is something, sure... This DOES require testing.

I think we need to scout the south side of that island to get some idea of how bad it really is. But I did OK building The Colossus in Lyon without the copper in an earlier test if I borrowed the GH from Paris.
 
I don't think we should prioritize CoL since we're not getting a GP : the plan so forth called for an Orleanais Great Scientist.
Which brings me to wonder : shall we put an academy in the capital or in the gold city ? It should be getting quite awesome commerce very quickly between the gold and the colossal clams.

I think we'll survive not seeing if anyone have MC. I seriously doubt it, but who knows. It should come next in the capital build queue in my opinion, or in Lyons possibly.
 
Well, founding a religion would be nice score-wise, even if we don't get a shrine right away. And it might help diplomatically since a water map slows down the AIs ability to spread religion to its neighbors. The 3 early religions have been founded, and none of our (presumably) close neighbors has a religion yet, so the opportunity is there. Also, we have already researched PH, so we'd get both pre-req bonuses if we research it after CoL (Edit: I meant Currency).

Not that I am convinced it's the best idea yet, I'm just throwing things around at this point.

I've argued before that I think Lyon/stone city should build the Colossus if we don't hook up the copper.

Alaman: Do you think you could play my Guinness test save through to the current turn the way you played the real game? Or do you think you could help me do it? I'd like to construct an updated test save for more testing.
 
I've just received 313 laser impacts in my left eye, and feel both manly in a very 50cent-y way, and both horsehockey in a "oh god, my eye hurt in place where I didn't know it could hurt" way.
So the answer would be yes, but give it a few days (and if someone wants to do it, all the better.)
I'm afraid the Lyon building the colossus strategy nets us the big guy a tad late compared to the capital doing it strategy. Again, testing needed.
 
Yeah, I was looking over the save last night to check my assumptions. The problem with Lyons building the Colossus is growing to a size where it could use all the hammer tiles available to it. A forge cost 180 hammers, so it would take Paris 20 turns to build one (working 2 GH mines and the forest), without whipping. We will obviously want to whip the forge (will need to test to see the effects). And then another 32 turns to build the Colossus (375 hammers - again without whipping).

The Moai would speed things up in Paris. They cost as much as the Colossus, but we'd get double the hammers with stone connected. Again we will need tests to work out how best to proceed.

I will try to update my test save.
 
Sorry if everyone was waiting on an updated test save. I had a go at it this weekend, but couldn't get the numbers to work out right. I will try to get something close to the actual game situation and post that.

Even without the test save we should list issues up for discussion before Benginal's turn set. I'll try looking over the save when I get home from work and posting some ideas.
 
I'll look tomorrow as well. I'll have a few hours.

I'm sorry myself I let the game slide a bit much on my part so I'll get more active from now.
 
OK - I am lousy at micro or planning without a test save to muck around with, but I don't have one handy so let's look at the current situation:

We are at 14 bpt at 100% research. We will finish Masonry next turn.

Paris: is at size 2 (32/36 food) and will grow to size 3 next turn. It is currently working 1 clams (5f, 2c) + 1 GH (1f, 3h) + the city (2f, 2h, 1c). So 8 fpt - 4f for 2 citizens = 4 fpt excess. Next turn we can work another clams to give us 7 fpt excess.

It has a WB in the queue (for Lyons after the border pop, I assume), but has not invested any hammers (5 hpt base + 3 overflow). A WB will take 9 turns (45h).

Orleans: is size 3 (4 in 2 turns) and is working fish (6f, 2c) + pigs (6f) + DH (3h, and the only source of hammers in it's BFC).

It is currently building a library (10/135h invested), which will take 32 turns, less with a whip.

Lyons: is size 1 and is working the GH (1f, 3h) borrowed from Paris. Its stone will be mined in 2 turns. It will not grow at any significant rate until it can work the fish tile currently outside our culture.

To that end it is building a Monument, that will finish in 8 turns (15/45h invested).


We have a settler on a galley headed toward the western gold/fish/2 clams islands, which will arrive in 2 turns.

There are 2 barb galleys N of Paris, adjacent to our trireme.

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I would suggest that we switch the build in Orleans from the Library to a settler or another worker. Although we'll want a library there, I think we need to focus on expansion at this point. Most of our city sites stink. We need to find better places to put cities. I would use the WB from Paris to explore the SE area on its way to Lyons. The horse island to the E might be good if it has a seafood resource.

Since we are going to finish Masonry next turn anyway, we might as well cancel the mine build order in Lyons so we can start a quarry. We can use the stone to build the Moai. There are really only 2 choices of where to build them given Orleans horrid production: Paris or Lyons. Lyons is lacking in food, so I would suggest Paris. This would delay the Colossus, but might work out better in the long run. I'm still not sure of when to start the Colossus. We will need a forge in Paris also.

Given how hammer poor this start is, going for SH first might have been the better short term option, but Colossus might work out better for us long term.

I am still advocating we tech Alpha > Currency > CoL
 
Apologies to everyone for my absence. But starting this weekend I'll be much more free for a few weeks as I've now entered the relaxing dead zone between the second round of mid-terms and finals. Still have to study for actuarial exam MLC which I'm taking in May, so I won't be that free... :(. But I'm back for now! Get pumped up.

Since I'll be free. I'll work on the write-up over the weekend. That will also help me get totally refreshed on what's going on for the next turn set. win-win!

We have a settler on a galley headed toward the western gold/fish/2 clams islands, which will arrive in 2 turns.

Yes indeed. That site seems like a really obvious site for our next city. Is everyone okay with this?

There are 2 barb galleys N of Paris, adjacent to our trireme.

Wth am I supposed to do about that? Should I retreat into the city and wait for galley back-up or roll the dice and try and take them on. Or flee and hope they follow me (and eventually the workboat) and not pillage the fish. Any options I'm missing?

*************************************

I would suggest that we switch the build in Orleans from the Library to a settler or another worker. Although we'll want a library there, I think we need to focus on expansion at this point. Most of our city sites stink. We need to find better places to put cities. I would use the WB from Paris to explore the SE area on its way to Lyons. The horse island to the E might be good if it has a seafood resource.

Yes. Exploration and expansion are key. I think non monument/granary infrastructure can be put on hold while we expand and explore.

Since we are going to finish Masonry next turn anyway, we might as well cancel the mine build order in Lyons so we can start a quarry. We can use the stone to build the Moai. There are really only 2 choices of where to build them given Orleans horrid production: Paris or Lyons. Lyons is lacking in food, so I would suggest Paris. This would delay the Colossus, but might work out better in the long run. I'm still not sure of when to start the Colossus. We will need a forge in Paris also.

I think the reason to build the colossus is simply to let us afford expanding. We now have a source of gold (fur up north if anyone is pro settling there) which can take the place of about 7 colossus tiles. This means the Colossus can come a little later. I'm not too worried about losing it. As long as we're reasonable, we can't delay it forever.

I am still advocating we tech Alpha > Currency > CoL

I agree. Then Civil Service. I'm thinking we get Oxford + Moai + Academy + Buro and make our capital a 25 pop beast as soon as we can. This tech path is certainly cliche. But it's excellent both in terms of usefulness and trading ability.

I'm no goo at this worldbuildering. So maybe I could recommend one of you guys do it, :p. And I'll do some test plays and figure out what we should do here.
 
Looking at the save I can see nothing to add, short term, to what ye've said.

As regards the Trireme, we have to accept what happens, as it's exhausted it's movements. But it has 88% odds on attack so the first defence should be c.95%. Hopefully it'll come out of that unscathed.

Long term we need to find a good spot to settle. There are a number of what seem to be substantial islands to the east of our position, but we still need better scouting. So maybe a third galley may be an idea (or a scouting trireme).

I think we'll need the copper for the Collossus, myself at 2 pop it is taking the capital at best 62 turns to produce which is way too long IMO.
 
Are the two galleys piled on each other ? If that's so, that sucks mightily. If we let the trireme be attacked twice, we're almost sure to lose it.
The colossus takes much less time since we grow quite well, and even less if we hook that copper.
 
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