SGOTM 13 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't

@Benginal: Here is a useful post on barb galleys (from a thread where DanF provides a wealth of information on barb behavior).
 
Its good to see a debate going on :thumbsup:

Actually, I strongly favour settling on the plains hill. If we only look at the production tiles:
If we SIP, we have a forested PH and a GH in the BFC. (2f 1h, + 4h, + 1f 3h) = 3f 7h agghh, wrong, its 3f 8h
If we settle on the PH, we have 2 GH. (2f 1h, + 1f 3h, + 1f 3h) = 4f 7h


I will play a test game through to turn 50 or so and post the results.

Totally agree that main strategy must be to get a toehold on the mainland, wherever that is.
Agreed that the map script is probably Big & Small.
 
Actually, to boost production, I favor settling ON the Corn. That gives us 2GH and 1PH in he BFC. We lose 2f but gain 1h and 1c for the Corn tile, and have a potential base production of 11 hammers assuming all hills mined. That also gives us two hills we can mine before getting BW, which is a nice production boost, and will really pay off if either of those is a Copper or Iron resource. Of course, we only get one city on our home island, but it's a pretty good city, unlike what we would get with two on the island. We'll have enough surplus food to work all the mines, so that isn't an issue.
 
I did think about settling on the the corn...

At pop 5, assuming no problems mining, farming, chopping..... this is the situ if we settle on:

Corn, 2 clams, 1 PH and 2 GH.
(3f 1h 1c, + 4f 2c, + 4f 2c, 1f 3h, + 1f 3h, + 4h) = 13f 11h 5c, Good hammers, but 3f surplus is not enough.

SIP, 2 clams, GH, PH, corn, plus another clams available (4f 2c)
(2f 1h 1c, + 4f 2c, + 4f 2c, 1f 3h, + 4h, 5f) = 16f 8h 5c, 6f surplus at pop 5, 8f surplus at pop 6.

PH, 2 clams, 2 GH, corn
(2f 2h 1c, + 4f 2c, + 4f 2c, 1f 3h, + 1f 3h, 5f) = 17f 8h 5c, 7f surplus at pop 5.

SIP and settling on the PH are very similiar. One problem with SIP is that we need BW for 1 mine, and Sailing (and a galley) for the other. Another issue is that every single resource we can see will be in the BFC, I like the idea of leaving one for city 2.

The problem with settling the PH, is that it means no other cities on the starting island, but considering the trade route bonus (+1 gold for each city) for settling on a different island, I don't see this as a major problem.



SIP requires a different tech/build order, can someone work on that, I am going to focus on the micro for settling the PH. I think we need to play out to turn ~50 and compare results. Use my updated test save, it gives copper in the BFC if you SIP, but not if you settle on the PH.

edit: i need to go to turn 60 at least in my test.
 
No worries, I dont think we even get the real save for another 3-4 days.

Note - the test save is missing a forest!, so don't forget to add it in.

Here is my save played to t68. Spreadsheet contains all of the micro I used.

A-M pop 6, working corn, both clams, both GH & a coast tile. Settler on galley with worker.
Teched: Fishing-Mining-Sailing-BW-Pottery.

Ignore the actual position of the galley, we will only be able to decide where to settle once we have seen more of the map.
 
Is there some nice buffy way that you got all that info? Or did you just write it down every turn? I know there's some sort of log mechanism but I'm not at all familiar with it.

Do you want those of us trying other openings to stop once we get to settler+worker on galley? What's the best thing to do in terms of comparison?

Looking at the log I think that starting on turn 19, switching to the plains hill forest might be slightly superior as it gets the workboat out quicker. WHOA, major nevermind. You are on the hill ... I forgot that. Still though, you might want to work the forest first just to get the workboat out quicker. But we can test for that!! So many things to do!
 
Alt+L for setting up the log. There is also an option in the BUG options box (ctrl+alt+O) for automatically saving a log every time you start a session. I can't take a scoreenshot right now as I'm playing a FfH game.

But I would suggest to keep a pen and paper account as well for the proper turnsets, it's easier to keep thoughts together that way.
 
I just updated the spreadsheet as I played.
Its not as bad as it sounds, it is mostly using control-D. ie. I only changed the Research column 4 times, the build order column 6 times......

I think we need a similiar reference point for each of the comparison saves. Also, without exploring the real map, I don't think going beyond having a settler on a boat is valid. If you SIP, you will probably settle city 2 before t68, but its still a good comparison point.

I am going to have another go, where I start the lighthouse instead of the settler, and whip it into the settler. I suspect that we will get the settler at about the same time, but we will have a lighthouse.

Good Luck :)

edit: This worked really well, settler got out 2 turns earlier, we have a lighthouse built and we have already revolted to Slavery.
 
Yeah, I'm quite happy with it. I will try some different scenario's later tonight/tommorow.

Alt-tab is your friend :)
 
Question: I assume that we will move the warrior before settling and he can only move to one place. What if we move and find another clam, crab, fish? How will this affect our decision.
 
Very good question!!

First person will move the settler warrior to the PH, IF they see anything that is not in the test game, then they stop and wait for the extra info to be analysed.

Depending on where the resource is, it could definitely change where we settle.

edit: this of course assumes we settle the PH. I will try some SIP tests tonight.
 
I tried a SIP test game (it's in the spreadsheet). The only thing we learned is that I'm lame at micro-ing. I forgot to road the corn in my worker's downtime and I unnecessarily one pop whipped a workboat early which had my city too small for the last 20 turns of the run through.

If we move the warrior on to the hill and see fish or something, settling on the corn becomes a more viable option...
 
Agreed, if there is fish or something in the BFC of the corn, then that could change everything.
 
First person will move the settler to the PH, IF they see anything that is not in the test game, then they stop and wait for the extra info to be analysed.

Neil, maybe this is what you mean after the warrior move, but I am presuming the first move will be to move the warrior to the PH, not the settler (since that would exhaust it's moves). Or am I missing something?
 
No, you missed nothing.

Me, I'm not capable of saying or writing what I actually mean. :)
 
No problem. I played your PH-best test up to turn 60 or so. Looks good to me. The timing the pop gains with the workable tiles works out nice.

I will give it a try tomorrow with BW before Sailing. I think Sailing first is best simply because we run out of things to build otherwise. But we have so much food for the whip, I get tempted to use it earlier (yeah... but on what?). The lack of happiness resources is a problem though. In summary, I think Sailing first is best but I want to try it the other way as well.
 
Yes, we have to try as many different things as possible.

I tried a few scenarios whipping the settler, but it didn't work out as well. The extra food from the lighthouse (plus the overflow hammers) just before we build the settler is ideal.

I am going to try SIP, but I will definitely finish the worker before starting the WB. Mining a GH before farming the corn might be the best option......

edit: SIP SUCKS!!! I couldn't make it work!, even with copper in the BFC. I think Benginal's test is as good as it gets. Please prove me wrong :)
 
It only just occured to me, we haven't properly welcomed our new team mates:

Welcome to Benginal & Alamankarazieff (man, thats almost as hard as our team name to write :)).

Let us conquer the AI !!!
 
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