SGOTM 13 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Include me in on that Whoops!

    If we have 2 already, I would promote a Cannon up the kazoo.

    edit: I would keep the ep on Willem as well, as we might be able to get a free tech off him later.
     
  2. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    A cannon? WTF? I really don't understand that one.

    Who is the next target? I was thinking Willem, but then leaving EP on him for a future tech steal doesn't make a ton of sense.

    Trade first with Joao, got it.
     
  3. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Maybe it is a bit odd, never mind.

    Willem is the runaway tech leader, so him next might be a good idea, before he gets rifles, but it would be risky. He is the only AI with RP IIRC, so it won't take him long to get them. On the other hand, if we pick him, we won't be trading him Steel. So, we might be able to launch a surprise attack, and take enough of his core cities quickly so that it doesn't matter if he has rifles. We might also be able to get some nice techs for making peace.

    Indeed, if we go Willem, no point keeping the ep on him.
     
  4. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    minor note, if we do want a super siege. You should put it on a catapult and then promote the catapult to a cannon for free!
     
  5. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Thats a good point Benginal,

    To explain the reasoning behind the super-siege. There are 2 options:

    Attacking Siege
    If we promote it to have barrage III and City Raider II, it will have: +100% collateral, +10% melee & gunpowder, and +50% extra to attack cities.
    It will be very effective against everything until Rifles, and it will help decimate all of the other defenders at the same time.

    Bombarding Siege
    If we promote it to have CR I and Accuracy III, it can almost singlehandedly remove the cultural defenses of cities at 36% bombard per turn.

    Our most experienced siege weapons are 2 trebs with 4/4. I can't remember exactly the promotion levels (2, 5, 10, 17, 26?), but as Napoleon we get a discount(2, 4, 8, 14, 22 ??). We should be able to get a treb or cat to level 5.

    Me personally, I would probably pick the bombarding siege, as it is not at risk of dying and will survive much longer, not tp mention that it will save the lives of many units.... but the attacking siege is always fun to play with. :)
     
  6. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    I'm personally very reluctant to do a GG to a cannon at this stage, since Cannons will be our stack defenders until we get Grens or Rifles.

    That decision can wait, though. So the consensus is to go for Willem next, and trade Steel to Joao to get PP and Banking? I can do that far tomorrow during the day, and post trade options as of the start of the next turn for discussion.
     
  7. Alamankarazieff

    Alamankarazieff Warlord

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    I consensus that. I find odd the idea of a super cannon, but I rarely use generals that way : i almost always settle them. So, why not try, that's the entire point of these SGOTM. I'd go for vaporizing defense cannon then.
     
  8. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    OK, ran three turns to get to Steel.

    Did this trade:
    Spoiler :


    And this is what the tech situation is afterwards:
    Spoiler :


    Note that I dropped the tech rate to zero after the trade. We're at pretty close to a 1:1 wealth:research ratio, so we can effectively tech at 40%. It's gonna take us a while to recover the economy and tech to Communism, assuming we can trade for Scientific Method next turn (might be a big assumption).

    I basically left the troops in place and worked on recovery. In the next few turns, I'm going to ferry the troops that took out Izzy over to the landmass we share with Willem, while continuing to stabilize the economy. We could certainly take a run at Willem since we can deploy Cannons against him now, or we can consolidate the empire first. My personal bias is towards consolidation, but I'll plan and execute an attack on Willem if such is the consensus position.
     
  9. Alamankarazieff

    Alamankarazieff Warlord

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  10. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    I agree with Alaman. We have a large army and a large navy to transport that army. We should go take something out.
     
  11. Trystero

    Trystero Deity

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    :) Yeah, I think I concur. I think we should exploit the advantage cannons give us before we lose it. Will our economic position improve when the former Viking cities come out of revolt? What precisely is the plan to improve the economy? State Property does seem like the best answer. But how are we going to bridge the gap until Communism? Build the FP?

    I am not opposed to the super-siege idea. But we could always keep the GG in reserve, or use it for a GA.

    Edit: x-post with Benginal. And yeah, go get Willem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ882QYzr-M
     
  12. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    I believe all our cities are now out of revolt. The FP is already built, in Nidaros. If we could get Economics, Free Market would help some, but we might need to put some cities building wealth if we're going to continue to expand at this point in the game.

    You can't use a GG for a golden age. Personally, I'd either settle it in Paris or use it on one of the high promo Maces (possibly splitting the exp 2 ways).

    OK, if we are going back on the offensive right away then my thoughts are to use our bankroll to upgrade trebs to cannons, and maybe Galleys to Galleons to move the troops faster and safer. That'll maximize the value of our advantage. I'll shift some production back to troops, as well, and see how fast I can get us ready to hit Willem.
     
  13. Trystero

    Trystero Deity

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    Building wealth is an excellent idea.

    Shoot. I always forget that about GGs. :blush: Settling or promoting maces sounds fine.

    I agree with using the cash on hand for upgrades and dropping the slider to save up again while we hit Willem. Capturing cities is also a nice way to drive our war economy.
     
  14. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Wealth & Merchants should get us out of the hole. Conquest gold will also help.

    FP somewhere on Ragnars landmass is an excellent proposition.

    I can't open the youtube link (its blocked at my work), but I can imagine what it links to.

    Upgrade all of the cats/trebs to Cannons, and lets roll.

    As for the trading situation, next turn try to get SM from Catherine, and Economics from Vicky.

    If we achieve this, our Civics will need to be changed. Free Market for sure, and we should take a religous one as well. Theocracy would be my choice.
     
  15. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    Yep, those were my trade intentions, neilmeister. I'll run a couple of turns this morning to get them done, and see how we stand. I'm also going to see if I can productively use some spies to take out Willem's Iron and Horse access, when I boot up the game again.

    Hmm, Theocracy? We'll probably be in Anarchy for 2 turns, since its Epic speed. I don't see any prospect of a golden age any time soon, so probably need to just eat the two turns of anarchy while redeploying troops against Willem.
     
  16. Trystero

    Trystero Deity

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    Regarding Theocracy: Are we running a state religion?
     
  17. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    Hmm, no. That would be an issue. I'm not at home so I can't check, but my impression is that we don't have any religion widespread enough to be worth running it.
     
  18. drlake

    drlake Emperor

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    OK, checking in post-trades...

    Got SM and Economics, but forgot that Liberalism is a prereq for Communism. It'll take four turns to research it at the current research rate, which we can only maintain for about 8 turns if I don't upgrade any Galleys or Siege (I haven't done any of that, yet).

    Revolting to Free Market will take 3 turns.

    Willem's only Iron supply (barring trade) is an island I sent a Frigate to blockade once war breaks out. Beyond that, I think I can hit Maastrict (on his main island) and Rotterdam on the turn after declaring war. It'll take a few turns to get the troops into position, and I think I'll have to blow our cash upgrading the Galleys or I won't have enough sealift to move the entire army and get both at once.

    I'm tempted to trade Steel to Willem to get Liberalism right before DoW, and hope the blockade works to shut down his Iron supplies. I haven't found his navy yet, but he's got a decent stack just sitting in Chartres.

    I'm going to hold in place for a couple of hours now, waiting instructions, and if I don't get any I'll revolt to FM, upgrade as much of the Siege and transport ships as I can, and get to work.

    BTW, why don't we have any Musketeers yet?
     
  19. Alamankarazieff

    Alamankarazieff Warlord

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    Because unless you have four of them named Athos, Porthos, Aramis et d'Artagnan, they tend to suck.

    I agree with your plan, including the cheeky trade/DoW.
     
  20. neilmeister

    neilmeister Lentils have feelings too GOTM Staff

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    Good trades.

    I think your instincts are correct, upgrade all of the siege & as much of the navy that we can, and start on Willem.

    I would probably land as many troops on his main island as you can, but still attack Rotterdam. If you have to attack Rotterdam via land, then so be it.

    We have to assume that much of our navy will be sunk be random east indiamen.
    There is sea tile only 3 squares from his cap that is not owned by anyone. It would be tempting to start there, but Maastricht is as good as any place to start.

    As for Musketeers, a few might be good for city & stack defense, but otherwise they suck.

    edit: x-post with Alaman, but we both used the exact same language. :)
     

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