I say definitely land the troops first and then attack. Don't try to attack from the sea, it's not worth it, especially not on epic where WvO can't respond quickly as normal. The frigates can bombard and then a few cannon should be able to collateral everybody.
SGOTM 13 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Also, if you make the trade for Lib, and then tech Communism, it would probably be worth delaying any civic switch until then.
Switch to FM, SP & maybe Nationhood. After reviewing the religous situ, we probably don't want to switch to Theocracy unless Paris gets infected with Hindu. It produces ~8 times as many hammers as any of our other cities.
Switch to FM, SP & maybe Nationhood. After reviewing the religous situ, we probably don't want to switch to Theocracy unless Paris gets infected with Hindu. It produces ~8 times as many hammers as any of our other cities.
drlake
Emperor
Just a quick update. Willem is down to 4 cities, and I'm still a few turns from tending my turn set (went 30 turns, iirc). I won the race to Communism by a couple of turns, so we have a GSpy sitting in Paris. Vicky DoW'd us, but hasn't done a damn thing. I'm going to finish off Willem completely, in part because we need the oil he's sitting on. I'll finish the turn set tomorrow morning if I can, and post screenies.
Awesome. As long as you have broken Willems back, thats fantastic. Getting the GS is just icing on the cake.
How many great people do we need to start a GA?
How many great people do we need to start a GA?
drlake
Emperor
I'll check both of those questions in a couple of hours. Just woke up, so first Email and news, THEN Civ. Fortunately I'm caught up on grading until I get the last batch of finals at noon, so I've got time to finish the set and write it up.
BTW, I'm THRILLED that Liz declared on us, since that means we don't need to incur the diplo penalty with Cathy and Joao of declaring on her. Also, I delayed switching to SP a turn, to raise the money needed to upgrade our last few Galleys. I lost a bunch of Galleons in the final big battle with Willem's fleet, and need the transport to get his last couple of cities off their islands.
BTW, I'm THRILLED that Liz declared on us, since that means we don't need to incur the diplo penalty with Cathy and Joao of declaring on her. Also, I delayed switching to SP a turn, to raise the money needed to upgrade our last few Galleys. I lost a bunch of Galleons in the final big battle with Willem's fleet, and need the transport to get his last couple of cities off their islands.
drlake
Emperor
OK, here we go...
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/c...b_hazg_t_t_SG013_AD1505_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
I've uploaded my CivFanatics log as a Word document. If you need it in a different format, let me know. I don't have a BUFFY log, and I don't know why. It looks like it is set up right, but it doesn't create a log file. Sorry.
Tech trades made:
Blockading Willem's Iron worked like a charm. I never faced a cannon, only had to kill a couple of Knights, and beyond that it was almost all Longbows and Muskets.
I begged for gold from Cathy and Joao, to keep them out of the fight when I attacked. I tried with Vicky, but she wouldn't, and declared on me a turn or so later. That said, I haven't seen one ship or any offensive troops from her. Military Tradition cost more than I liked to pay, but I figured we'd benefit from having it down the road. I did build some Curs, as you can see on the save.
Current civics:
I went with Free Religion, since it made more sense than any of the others and didn't add to the anarchy. I decided Bureau was better than Nationalism, at least until after we get the Kremlin built. I broke the Stone trade with Cathy to help get it built faster, but whoever is up next might want to use some whip overflow to speed it up.
Foreign Relations:
Cathy at Pleased makes me nervous, but she isn't preparing for war yet. That said, I screwed up and Razed Willem's city on the Horse north of one of Cathy's cities, and her culture expanded to get the Horse. I don't think she had one before then, so when we go for war with her that has to be an early target.
Tech situation:
We're doing OK. Cathy is the tech leader, but that won't last once we're ready to take her out. She hasn't been trying to get Military techs, so we're in good shape and have a big army available. I thought about extorting Corporatism off Willem, but I think we need to take him out completely and it'll be a fairly quick research job now that we're in SP.
VCs:
A long way to go. We're going to have to conquer Vicky, Cathy, and part of Joao to win I think.
Our imperial core:
I took one city off Vicky, and have an army/fleet there ready to go after her mainland.
The new territories (aka the Dutch Empire):
Our biggest army is in the North finishing off the Dutch, along with a decent fleet. Might be worth shifting it to help with Vicky, or get ready for Cathy next.
The old Spanish empire:
Working on infrastructure, and still getting all cities garrisoned with LBs.
The old Viking empire:
Also working on infrastructure, and have a couple of decent military production cities set up or in progress.
We have the GS and two GGs in Paris. I didn't want to mess with trying to get the GG to the front. My thoughts are military academies or trainers, rather than lead troops. A Golden Age will require one more GP, which we'll have within 20 turns.
I'm probably leaving something important out of my report, but that's the core of it.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/c...b_hazg_t_t_SG013_AD1505_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
I've uploaded my CivFanatics log as a Word document. If you need it in a different format, let me know. I don't have a BUFFY log, and I don't know why. It looks like it is set up right, but it doesn't create a log file. Sorry.
Tech trades made:
Spoiler :
Blockading Willem's Iron worked like a charm. I never faced a cannon, only had to kill a couple of Knights, and beyond that it was almost all Longbows and Muskets.
I begged for gold from Cathy and Joao, to keep them out of the fight when I attacked. I tried with Vicky, but she wouldn't, and declared on me a turn or so later. That said, I haven't seen one ship or any offensive troops from her. Military Tradition cost more than I liked to pay, but I figured we'd benefit from having it down the road. I did build some Curs, as you can see on the save.
Current civics:
Spoiler :
I went with Free Religion, since it made more sense than any of the others and didn't add to the anarchy. I decided Bureau was better than Nationalism, at least until after we get the Kremlin built. I broke the Stone trade with Cathy to help get it built faster, but whoever is up next might want to use some whip overflow to speed it up.
Foreign Relations:
Spoiler :
Cathy at Pleased makes me nervous, but she isn't preparing for war yet. That said, I screwed up and Razed Willem's city on the Horse north of one of Cathy's cities, and her culture expanded to get the Horse. I don't think she had one before then, so when we go for war with her that has to be an early target.
Tech situation:
Spoiler :
We're doing OK. Cathy is the tech leader, but that won't last once we're ready to take her out. She hasn't been trying to get Military techs, so we're in good shape and have a big army available. I thought about extorting Corporatism off Willem, but I think we need to take him out completely and it'll be a fairly quick research job now that we're in SP.
VCs:
Spoiler :
A long way to go. We're going to have to conquer Vicky, Cathy, and part of Joao to win I think.
Our imperial core:
Spoiler :
I took one city off Vicky, and have an army/fleet there ready to go after her mainland.
The new territories (aka the Dutch Empire):
Spoiler :
Our biggest army is in the North finishing off the Dutch, along with a decent fleet. Might be worth shifting it to help with Vicky, or get ready for Cathy next.
The old Spanish empire:
Spoiler :
Working on infrastructure, and still getting all cities garrisoned with LBs.
The old Viking empire:
Spoiler :
Also working on infrastructure, and have a couple of decent military production cities set up or in progress.
We have the GS and two GGs in Paris. I didn't want to mess with trying to get the GG to the front. My thoughts are military academies or trainers, rather than lead troops. A Golden Age will require one more GP, which we'll have within 20 turns.
I'm probably leaving something important out of my report, but that's the core of it.
Awesome, really nice turnset.
I'm a little bit surprised that no-one has teched towards rifles. But I'm not complaining. I can't see Vicky lasting too long without redcoats. I'd be tempted to round up the loose Maces in the spanish & dutch territories and make a start on Catherine very soon. Not sure if its worth waiting for Rifles.
Really good choice to go with Free Religion, can't fault you there. Theocracy would have been tempting, but FR was a good choice.
I'd send one GG to the English front to be a medic, and leave the other medic on the Willem/Catherine front.
At this point most infrastructure is probably not worth building. Either build units or wealth. If we want our cities to expand borders, a few turns with a raised culture slider should do the trick.
For the bloodthirsty among us, here is the bodycount: 7 Frigates & 13 East Indiamen! Nice work drlake.
I'm a little bit surprised that no-one has teched towards rifles. But I'm not complaining. I can't see Vicky lasting too long without redcoats. I'd be tempted to round up the loose Maces in the spanish & dutch territories and make a start on Catherine very soon. Not sure if its worth waiting for Rifles.
Really good choice to go with Free Religion, can't fault you there. Theocracy would have been tempting, but FR was a good choice.
I'd send one GG to the English front to be a medic, and leave the other medic on the Willem/Catherine front.
At this point most infrastructure is probably not worth building. Either build units or wealth. If we want our cities to expand borders, a few turns with a raised culture slider should do the trick.
For the bloodthirsty among us, here is the bodycount: 7 Frigates & 13 East Indiamen! Nice work drlake.
Spoiler :
drlake
Emperor
Keep in mind, we've got a Woody-3 Mace and a GG Super Medic on the Dutch front right now. Good idea making a GG supermedic for the other front, but I'd settle or military academy with the second GG.
Agreed. A military academy in Paris sounds good to me.
edit: I notice that we have only lost a single cannon. That has worked out much better than I would have expected.
Nice turnset! I agree on not building infrastructure anymore. Whip whip whip! Cannons should be able to win the day. I say we don't try doing any unnecessary maneuvering with our army and hit Catherine next. In the meantime, we can build reinforcements at home. With 36 cities we should be able to whip about 40 troops and 10 boats over the next 10 turns and finish the game off!
Speaking of which, it's you Neil unless PS shows up which I'm guessing is unlikely.
Speaking of which, it's you Neil unless PS shows up which I'm guessing is unlikely.
Alamankarazieff
Warlord
Really good job. I agree on military academy, maybe in Nidaros ? Or another good production city anyway.
No infrastructure gets my vote too : wealth or units.
Whipping everywhere makes sense only to whip out good troops. My vote is for cuirassiers, they're really a bundle of fun. How long before we reach rifles ?
No infrastructure gets my vote too : wealth or units.
Whipping everywhere makes sense only to whip out good troops. My vote is for cuirassiers, they're really a bundle of fun. How long before we reach rifles ?
drlake
Emperor
It'll take about 4 turns for RP, and we've got enough cash for maybe 3 turns of research right now. After that, we'll need to save up for Rifles so I'm guessing maybe 20 more turns. At that point, we'll be able to run a golden age, max out wealth production, and buy upgrades.
I did start the Kremlin, thinking we might shift to rush buying and drafting at some point.
I did start the Kremlin, thinking we might shift to rush buying and drafting at some point.
This is a great idea. I'm not sure rush buying is going to be that powerful. A cannon on epic costs like 200 gold (guess) and that's pretty much what we're getting each turn, aka we can't buy that many cannons. But nationalism is great. Once we get rifling and can draft rifles we'll be able to finish the game no problem.
Micro notes:
Orleans should run some scientists. If it gets another spy we can't golden age, which is lame. But a scientist doesn't matter since it will just be golden aged anyway. Not to mention scientists are better than coast tiles unless they are getting whipped!
Starving dutch cities should be whipped. To expand culture just have them build culture for 1 turn.
It might be worth putting a city the larger island in the middle between us and Holland. Every little bit of land helps. Also our land total should go up quite a bit when we get some border pops.
Orleans should run some scientists. If it gets another spy we can't golden age, which is lame. But a scientist doesn't matter since it will just be golden aged anyway. Not to mention scientists are better than coast tiles unless they are getting whipped!
Starving dutch cities should be whipped. To expand culture just have them build culture for 1 turn.
It might be worth putting a city the larger island in the middle between us and Holland. Every little bit of land helps. Also our land total should go up quite a bit when we get some border pops.
drlake
Emperor
I'd been whipping the Dutch cities pretty heavily, but some just came out of disorder last turn.
Good idea on settling islands. Might want to grab some of the peripheral barb cities, too, rather than let Joao get all of them.
Good idea on settling islands. Might want to grab some of the peripheral barb cities, too, rather than let Joao get all of them.
Trystero
Deity
I'll chime in also and say great job drlake! Wow. 52 LBs taken out. Very nice.
I agree that FR was the better choice. It's better to get to military techs faster than have more highly promoted units, I would think. I also agree with skipping infrastructure and building troops. Our best chance for a high score is finishing fast, so let's keep the military mechine rolling. And running the culture slider is a good way to grab territory.
I don't think the Kremlin is essential, but it's a nice option. And it would be nice to deny it to the AI. I use rush buying primarily in emergency situations if I'm not running Slavery.
And I would also vote for building cuirassiers/cavalry. They definitely help speed things up.
We should definitely take out the Russian horse city first. That's far better than dealing with Cossacks.
Again, nicely done.
I agree that FR was the better choice. It's better to get to military techs faster than have more highly promoted units, I would think. I also agree with skipping infrastructure and building troops. Our best chance for a high score is finishing fast, so let's keep the military mechine rolling. And running the culture slider is a good way to grab territory.
I don't think the Kremlin is essential, but it's a nice option. And it would be nice to deny it to the AI. I use rush buying primarily in emergency situations if I'm not running Slavery.
And I would also vote for building cuirassiers/cavalry. They definitely help speed things up.
We should definitely take out the Russian horse city first. That's far better than dealing with Cossacks.
Again, nicely done.
drlake
Emperor
Thank you all for the kind words. 
That was a fun turn set to play. I don't normally play so aggressively, but since you guys were pushing for war with Willem I figured I would do my best. It worked out better than I expected! He didn't really have a stack, probably because he built so many ships, so it was basically a process of moving next to a city, taking down the cultural defenses, and the sending in the cannons and troops. I'm guessing Cathy will be about the same, as long as we keep her from exploiting those horses. Might be worth some EPs on her and a spy to destroy the pasture she's probably building.
That was a fun turn set to play. I don't normally play so aggressively, but since you guys were pushing for war with Willem I figured I would do my best. It worked out better than I expected! He didn't really have a stack, probably because he built so many ships, so it was basically a process of moving next to a city, taking down the cultural defenses, and the sending in the cannons and troops. I'm guessing Cathy will be about the same, as long as we keep her from exploiting those horses. Might be worth some EPs on her and a spy to destroy the pasture she's probably building.
Trystero
Deity
I took a quick look at the save over lunch. If we are going to build any infrastructure, maybe we want some universities (we have 1), so we can build Oxford in Paris?
. In my first ALC game I was playing as Zara and was having fun with Oromos and whatnot. I played pretty conservatively taking over one AI and then building up infrastructure and some more units and then slowly taking over another one. It's much more my natural builder style, hours of simcity ya know. But then huerfanista was like, you could have just declared war on everybody like this. And he beat me by a good 50 turns. 
. I think outside of the early rush, it's quite possible to keep the economy from crashing. Tech rate might be bad, but strike is unlikely. The trick I think is knowing when you've reached game end techs and don't need any more beakers but can use all of your commerce on unit maintenance. I think once rifling is in, we'll be at that point and can go all out unit spam and shut down the slider. I'll be interested to see where the obsessive teams shut down their sliders.
