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SGOTM 14 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    This is a good idea.

    I think we can have fairly short and precise turnsets, getting good discussion going between them.

    As for scheduling issues, I can sometimes have issues fitting in sets during the week but the weekends are good for me. Also, the 10th and 25th of the month are the days I update the Civ IV HOF and usually take up my free time on those days.
     
  2. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    Adrian, very nice job simming out the first cities. I was going to report a similar finding but you beat me to it. Yes, 1W for the Win! I would only pause if something on the other side of the lack really bares interest (3 gold). Our first tech should be AH, and worker first. Warrior checks NE first,but we're settling west.


    Ronnie, I work full-time and have my last ever PhD class during the fall. I will likely have a period somewhere in October where I have my very last class test, and be unavailable then. Otherwise I should be fine, but my play timing tends to be best around the weekend. There is nothing for the next month that should affect this opening. i agree completely about short turn sets with rapid turn around
     
  3. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Chieftain

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    I have no conflicts with playing turn sets during the opening rounds.

    I did a quick shot at one of the TEST games. Assuming our initial research path will be Animal Husbandry>Mining>Bronze Working, natural stopping points appear to be...
    1. completion of AH = 13 turns
    2. completion of AH+Mining = 20 turns
    3. completion of AH+Mining+BW = 33 turns
    Is 33 turns too long for the first turn set? There is a natural turn set pause after the completion of AH in order to advise the team if there are any nearby Horse resources. And with two more AI Civs than normal on a standard size map, there is a good chance there would be a "Guess which Wicked Witch I just met?" pausing point.

    Something I just noticed playing the test game; it's 13 turns to complete AH, and 15 turns to build the first Worker. The Capitol's borders will have expanded by the time that first worker is built, which means the Worker would be able to improve any of our three food resources (assumes we settle 1W). Which food resources should get improved first? With improvements...
    • Farmed Corn = 5 :food:
    • Pastured Cows = 3 :food:/3 :hammers:
    • Pastured Sheep = 5 :food:/2 :commerce:
    I'm thinking Sheep first for the extra commerce, then the Cows for the extra hammers, and finish up with the Corn.
     
  4. Sleepless

    Sleepless Chieftain

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    No timing problems for me although there might be a few days towards the end of August when I'm unavailable. Other than that not much planned.

    have to agree with adrianj's summing up. And as mentioned if there is a super site close by it can always be our second city.

    Also agree on an early second city. Obviously surrounding land is crucial here.
     
  5. Sleepless

    Sleepless Chieftain

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    I am/was going to go and play with the start again. Trouble with sheep first is the lost turns to get to the cows/corn. That is why I'm thinking of an extra early worker at size 2.

    Along the lines of worker - part build warrior to size 2 - worker - warrior etc. In which case my tech path might go along AH - Mining - Wheel - BW. The wheel so we don't waste worker turns.
     
  6. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

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    I have been doing something similar in my tests. I have been going worker > worker(partial), as soon as the 1st food resource is up switch to warrior and grow quickly to size 2, then finish the 2nd worker!
     
  7. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Gypsy King

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    In my first test run I was able to get a 2nd worker pretty soon. But following modern outsourcing techniques, it came from India, not from America itself. :lol:
     
  8. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

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    While I appreciate the idea completely....;), I'm not sure we can count on it as far as testing goes. We may be semi-isolated and not have that opportunity. But it brings up the point about stopping early(after the 1st worker is built), because we may have met a neighbor(s) and that may change our approach to the second build!
     
  9. adrianj

    adrianj Chieftain

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    I definitely think stopping often is a good idea, especially if the interesting or unexpected happens, like finding horses or meeting an AI.

    I think the sheep is a good tile to improve first, since pastures are faster to build than farms and early :food: more valuable than :hammers:

    I could certainly be swayed toward researching Wheel early to give the worker something to do (move - improve - cancel sort of thing). Possibly even before Mining. How does that work out with timing?
     
  10. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

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    Hmm, if it takes using a citizen on a farm (net +1 food output) to get the next citizen to work a power tile or be a specialist, is it just better to be one smaller and put that farm citizen on the power tile or be the specialist?

    Maybe less so in the cap where maint effect of pop is less, but something to consider farther away?

    I'd like to not be in the first two or three in the rotation, I have a few loose ends (people I'd like to strangle) to wrap up before RL relaxes its grip completely.

    dV
     
  11. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

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    IMO, we don't need wheel early. I have been building 2 of them and they are both busy the whole time without the wheel. Also, with all the forests in the immediate vicinity, they can't move and work anyway.
     
  12. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Chieftain

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    Another benefit of improving the Sheep first is we get the Health benefit immediately, and don't have to worry about connecting the Sheep Pasture to the Capitol with roads. Plus the two :commerce: from the riverside Pasture get converted to two :science: helping our early research.

    We can make a decision on The Wheel after Animal Husbandry is completed. If we have nearby Horses, it may be worth moving up in the research priority list for early Chariots. We'll need it eventually to get to Pottery for riverside Cottages and Granaries.
     
  13. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I think stopping after AH is a good spot to stop first up.

    The worker/warrior/worker at size 2 idea also seems good although as C63 says a nearby witch might agree to donate one which is always better.

    Sheep improved first seems best as well for the extra commerce and then cows for the hammers.
     
  14. adrianj

    adrianj Chieftain

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    We will learn AH before our first worker is complete, correct? I definitely think stop after we learn AH, and then we can plan how we produce the next worker/warrior. This implies that our decision as to what order we improve our resources is also not relevant to this turnset.

    The real question for me is would we ask our opening player to stop on Turn 0 before we settle the city. After moving 1W we will see a few tiles on the other side of the lake, but certainly not far enough to change our mind about if we settle (ie, things can only get better!). For this reason, I don't think there is a need to stop and discuss. This is actually quite different from previous SGOTMs (at least for those I've been part of with GKs) where it's possible that things might change our mind on Turn 0 - we're all pretty well decided that "West is Best"?

    As for stealing workers - Under what conditions would you steal a worker? Would you steal one from Ghandi, but not from Genghis? Keep in mind that for this game we have no idea how an AI will behave if we declare war no them, ie, Ghandi could well be Genghis in disguise.
     
  15. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    It shouldn't really make too much difference, the AI won't be able to wage a war at that early stage and will eventually just accept a cease fire. Gandhi will do earlier than Genghis but both will before they can cause us any problems. We are (probably) aiming for conquest so it gives us an advantage (free worker) and puts them back.

    Should probably check with the team before doing so though, to make sure everyone is comfortable with it.
     
  16. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

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    Great point on the random personality part aj. This also means that Griffs early list of "Good" and "Bad" witches is totally irrelevant. Elizabeth could easily be Montezuma in disguise.

    So are we willing to take an early risk to gather workers?

    Sheep 1st is definitely best as a "7" yield tile. Cows is a "6" and corn a "5", but I rate the corn better because the extra food helps get us to size 3 quicker.

    Worker>worker(partial)>warrior(when sheep ready)>finish worker #2 at size 2>finish warrior.....this seems to be best, I am away from game computer right now, but when I get home, I'll post the relevant statistics to back up the statement.

    As aj said...exact order isn't even relevant for 1st set as the 1st worker won't even be complete when AH is learned.
     
  17. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

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    The names were pulled from the hat.

    The Roster order for the Misfit Gypsy Nuts for SGOTM 14 is.....

    1) Leading off - McArine
    2) on deck - Mighty Dwarf
    3) in the hole - Ronnie1
    4) waiting - Sleepless
    5) waiting - Ozbenno
    6) waiting - da_Vinci
    7) waiting - Jericho Hill
    8) waiting - Grifftavian
    9) waiting - ngraner42

    Advising only as of August 9th

    Adrianj
    Conquistador63
    JonShaw


    The first turnset will be played to the completion of Animal Husbandry.
     
  18. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    Great. Goodplanning all
     
  19. McArine

    McArine Chieftain

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    I'm ok with taking first turnset.
    It also fits nicely with me being more or less awol between the 13th. and the 22nd. this month.

    Besides that I have nothing big on my schedule the next couple of months.

    Turnset plans:
    Turn 0: Move settler 1W, and move warrior 1NE. If nothing truly extraordinary shows up, settle The Yellow Brick Road on 1W.
    Research AH.
    Turn 1-n: Use warrior for scouting counterclockwise around capital.
    Stop when AH is completed.

    I plan to play the turnset sometime tomorrow, when the game is released, unless someone has big issues with the plan.
     
  20. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

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    I would probably move the warrior 1st, continue the warrior counter clockwise after starting NE in stead of the other way. Try to stick to hills and forests after about T6 when animals appear.
     

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