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SGOTM 14 - Phoenix Rising

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 14 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

    You can find the Game Details in the first post of the Maintenance Thread. If any changes occur in the game settings or rules, I shall post them in that thread, and edit that post.

    Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts in this thread for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

    Good luck, and remember rule #1 - ENJOY THE GAME!
     
  2. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    links to players turnsets.

    T0-12 Lymond Settled 1W teched AH explored around capital.
    T14-20 Gumbolt Explored west and a hub map maybe?? Lots of food resources found.
    T21-28? Gumbolt Explored furter west and continued teching BW.
    T37-39 Vranasm turn log
    T37-39 detailed report VranasmThe moment where we found all the AI and twigged why we only had 4 known AI. The wheel is now complete.
    T40-53 Bobbyboy29(turnlog)
    T40-53 Bobbyboy29 report for turn Barb gate!! A lack of communication here and our warrior that should of spawn busted the pigs/fish site goes exploring. 4-5 turns in a barb city spawns. We tech writing. The stone city was also built.
    T55-72 StugeMasonry in and Stuge has built up 280 or so gold. We built the mids too in our capital and switch to rep. Our capital now has a library and we have built rge sheep city
    T72-T86 jaybone We pop a GE and we have a big debate over GLH vs GE on G lib. The spear near copper city shows up but walks away to attack a scout. (No turn log here)
    T86-91 Gumbolt A Spearman approches our copper city followed by a stack of 2 archers. Even with a axe, warrior and archer we lose the city. Some very unlucky RNG. Even worse a barb city spawns on the copper. To further add to our woes an archer approaches above our undefended gem city! Time to give up? We now have alphabet and traded for Myst/hunting, sailing, IW and other basic techs.
    T91-94 Gumbolt Finally some luck on RNG and both barb archers die as we focus on military as we slowly tech to lit.
    T94-95 Mylene The aftermath of copper gate and we are still fending off axemen and other barbs. We lost an archer. We have teched literature.
    T96-101 Mylene Great library built. Traded for mon and maths. Currency is also completed.
    T101-107 Mylene P2. The barb city near pigs/fish is taken by our Swords army. We have music (Free GA) and a further GS is created. Still can't get open borders!
    T117-125 Jaybone We start our glorious golden age and tech towards nationalism. We get 2 and a bit great scientists. A good debate about great people was had. Also about expanding to a NW city. Overall game is back on track.
    Jaybone T125-134 HE built, religion spread and barracks and forges built or part built. Gunpowder nearly complete.
    Lymond T134-137 Big debate over civics and spreading our religion. In the end sense prevailed and our war strategy was maintained. We need a few old techs from the AI but nearly ready for war.
    Lymond T137-144 MT is in and we are ready for war. Much debate was had over if we should go with stables or not. In the end we compromised with civics to get the units promoted and the war started sooner.
    Bobbyboy29 T 144-150 We are ready for war and 26 curs are on Shaka's border. He has 14 cities!!
    Bobbyboy29 T150-158 part 2. Shaka is gone! 25 curs and some reinforcements took 8 turns wiping him out. Ding dong the witch is dead!! Much celebration was had. Shaka had some pikemen but our curs were all level 2/3. ;)
    Okay Mylene split her turnset up so to get more team involvement.
    MyleneT 158 Peace with mansa for Guilds and a strange barb city has appeared in the fog. Ooooh!!!
    Mylene 158-164Part 1 micro. Did someone mention we need astronomy. We push out 1200 beakers into it. Obviously grabbed engineering too soon. ;)
    Mylene t164-167 part 1 The war goes on and Asoka is as good as broken. Mansa is high on our radar.
    Mylene t167-169 Part 2 More war stuff. We are losing 200 gold a turn!! wow
    Mylene t169-171 part 3. Still fighting 3 AI and the viking capital has fallen.

    Gumbolt part 1 T173-176 Final Indian and Ragnar cities taken. Mansa capital in site and the Ap will soon be razed.
    Gumbolt part 2 T176-178Mansa capital razed and the Ap with it. We have over 30 curs ready to attack the English.
    Gumbolt part 3 T179-T181 Mansa is nearly dead. We take his 2 coastal cities but we take peace for astronomy! He has 1 city in Aztec hub and 1 tucked away coastal city. We started the war with English and a stack of 12-13 curs is ready to take london next turn.

    Jaybone part 1 T182-184 English are nearly dead. We finally have seen the Wizard and we are somewhat prepared for him.
    Jaybone part 2 t185-187 We have delcared on the Aztecs and we have landed 9 curs by sea and the Aztec capital is set to fall soon. 5-7 other aztec cities in the map have fallen. We must have 80-100 curs now!!1
    Lymond part 1 T187-191 5 aztec cities taken and a shrine city burned to the ground!! 49% of land and victory is so close now. We are still spamming settlers!
    Lymond part 2 T191-197 We have spammed nearly 20+ settlers and lots of new cities are settled with border pops coming in. Last few Aztec cities are razed and we killed a wizard only needing 7 curs to kill off the city Good going lymond!!
     
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
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    Please read all of these team rules!!

    Summarized Team Rules
    Read the various Rule threads.
    Check your ini files so that autosave is set to every turn.
    No reloads from previous point, ever! If you make a mistake we have to live with it!!
    No reading of other team threads. The best way to resist temptation is
    to use the Subscribed threads tool under quick links! Similarily, do
    not download other team saves.
    When looking at the save, do not perform any irreversible action! You
    can't trade, whip or move units.

    If the game crashes, stop and pm AlanH with details of what happened.
    Wait for instructions.

    Suggested:
    Save often manually
    Do stop if an opportunity becomes available or something goes wrong.
    Pause the game before uploading/examining it.
    When testing the game, make sure you're using the test game! Markers
    will be added here and there to help.

    Let us know when you can't make a deadline or RL becomes busy.

    A few notes of etiquette:

    1. Active participation -- Your contribution to every set is important, even if it's a 'I agree'. Although everyone might have real life issues sometimes, it's courteous to notify the team of you absence.
    Due to size of team players who choose to show up just before and after their turnset may be skipped or marked as ‘assumed away’. You must try to participate in each turnset where possible. This is a team game afterall. This rule is to make sure that the team is not left waiting for a player to show and to reward those that actively take part.
    2. Plan of playing -- The spirit of SG is to play the game following the consensus of the team decision. Therefore the player who is UP should post a clear plan for discussion. Guidelines have been posted for the contents of your plan in the next post. It might be that the team decides to head in a direction you were opposed to, it does not mean you are wrong but rather that the team believes the odds of winning are more likely with the decided approach.

    3. Timing -- In the pre-thread we agreed to use the following as upper bounds for discussing, planning and playing the set. Since the game cannot last forever, it is important to respect these in order not to be rushed to finish the game later on.
    -24 hours for 'got it' and pre-play-plan [0~24] - Make sure you can open the save before saying 'got it'.
    -24 hours for discussion and first plan draft[0~48]
    -24 hours for edits [24~72]
    -24 hours to play [72~96]

    Please keep in mind those are upper bounds, meaning if a consensus is reached before the time is fully elapsed, the set can proceed ahead.
    Once again it would be greatly appreciated if you can warn the team, either in this thread or via pm, of your absences so that we do not have to wait for a consensus or skipping. You will be skipped if you cannot meet the time frame.

    3a. Please include a report when you submit the save. You may submit your report later but it would be preferable to have it before the discussion on the next set starts.

    4. Do not automate workers without first discussing with your team.

    5. Do not use city governors without first discussing with your team. Or at least if you do, check cities every turn and remove the governor at the end of your round.

    6. Do not leave units on goto orders that extend beyond your set of turns. If for some reason this happens, then be sure to inform your team as to what the unit(s) is/are going.

    7. Finish all your discussed turns and upload the game saved at the END of the discussed part.

    8. Respect your team mates, and demand their respect. Take care of your writing style, accept that people whose first language is not English will use English in a different way than you are used to. Disagree by all means, but don't make it personal, and don't take it personally.

    9. SG's are team games. Be a good team member. Post your ideas, argue your corner and encourage and praise your team mates. Don't be afraid to post in your game thread. That is what it's for.

    10. Have fun and remeber a Phoenix always rise from the ashes!!!

    How a set will be played


    There are 7 major parts to every set.
    1. Pre-Play-Plan: see below.
    2. Voting: everyone voices his opinion on the issues raised in 1.
    3. Plan: see below.
    4. Critique of the Plan: once the Plan is posted, players should try/read the plan and look for anything they'd like to change. This is where you must support your arguments!
    5. Final Plan: tries to glue everything together.
    6. Play the Set: see below.
    7. Post the Report: see below

    What is the Pre-Play-Plan?

    The Pre-Play-Plan is to initiate the discussion on the diverging possibilities at the start of a set. This includes, but not limited to, EP focus, general city micro, general worker micro, general techs. Basically, make an idea of what you want to do with your 5-10 turns.

    In the spoiler below are general ideas as to what you can cover with the pre-play-plan. Not everything needs to be discussed, only the obvious decision points.

    Spoiler :


    What your plan should cover:

    The plan must contain 2 detailed parts:

    1. What you will check for every turn (EP, trades available, GPT available etc.) [this is easy]

    2. Turn-by-turn worker moves, city micromanagement, unit movement and or general guidelines as to what we can't control via test game. [this is the hard part]
    The team might at one point decide to slack on #2 once the game becomes well in hand.

    How your set should go:
    • Play according to the plan
    • If something unexpected (or an opportunity) comes up, STOP AND CHECK WITH THE TEAM.
    • If you have to adapt, do so!
    • You can add markers in game during and at the end of your set. It's a lot easier on team members to figure where units are going.
    • If something unexpected comes up, you can (and possibly should) stop and make a short report to the team so we can decide how to move ahead

    ~~~~

    What your set report should cover:
    • WHEOOHRN alerts and possible/likely targets
    • GGs in distant lands and Great Engineers
    • When to renegotiate trades
    • What you were planning for the future
    • How the plan worked out/didn't
    • Anything unexpected
     
  4. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    I will nab this too just in case. :)

    Probably use this for an early plan and ideas if need be. let's see how we go!

    All those new to the game need to make sure they understand the rules of the SGOTM.

    Okay actions required next!

    For now everyone needs to check in.

    We need to vote on a captain to do all the admin stuff

    We need to make sure we have fun over the next 4 months but play a decent game. Having fun should be the key thing. ;)
     
  5. bobbyboy29

    bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns...

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    Location:
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    Checking in woohoo!!! :woohoo: Looking forward to a great game, hope that our phoenix continues to rise and rise. Welcome back to all our returning members, and a big welcome to the new blood in Stevoh and Mylene. Very much looking forward to the help that you guys can give our team.

    Probably just a formality but Gumbolt gets my vote for captain! (not sure if anyone else even wants it ;) )
     
  6. Jaybone

    Jaybone Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
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    checking in, i also vote GB for captain.

    Always remember, this is just a game
     
  7. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    have ton of ideas for early game... but for now it looks like "subscribing" should suffice as first post...
     
  8. Mylene

    Mylene Chieftain

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    Hi guys ;)
    Captain...iam fine with everyone who wants to ofc, looks like Gumi? ~~
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    In da hizzee!!!

    GB...keep it rockin


    Very happy to have you on board, My!
     
  10. stuge

    stuge Chieftain

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    Location:
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    I'm going to be a man after our captain's heart. Although anyone's will do, really.
     
  11. Mylene

    Mylene Chieftain

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    Thanks Bobby and Lymo :)
    I was just thinking, PHI could make this very interesting.
    Reminds me of Absolute Zero's videos, complicated bulbing strategies :D
     
  12. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Okay 7 reported in. Cripps, kadazzle and Stevoh missing. I'll email them. (Action to do) I think most seem happy for me to do the admin and sort out the rota stuff.

    Welcome to Mylene and Stevoh. Good to have you on board.

    We need to set up a test game. Is this something Lymond would welcome as a challenge?? Not sure how to change the Ai personalities in world builder.

    What does random personalities mean?? Looking at the PDF for leaders I am guessing stuff like war probability, unit probability, will they trade techs etc. Any thoughts here would be welcome!

    We have 6 days before the live save becomes available. It seems that a 600ad-1000ad win should be possible based on SGOTM 11/13. I would guess diplomatic or conquest will be quickest. Philosophical trait should make diplomatic interesting.

    Scouting out the map and exploring the sea will be crucial early on. Let's learn from our mistakes here last game. Firstly to get trade routes, secondly to find the AI and finally to find and kill the super barb unit.

    Anyway lots to discuss but I think it best we break it down to basic expectations of the game and what method will win the game fastest. We can talk about starting locations, short/long term objectives later before getting a basic plan together.
     
  13. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    imo the starting 25 turns are crucial to get the best idea we could have about the continent we're on.

    Of course it's super important to know if we need Astronomy or not.

    Some basic idea about Wonders too. At this point I am thinking only about 2 - Oracle and GLH.

    From my testing in S&T it did look like going with Oracle->CoL was wasteful, since with library and 2 scientists the GS's come so quick you have no idea what to do with them.

    One possible thing came a bit out and that is bulbing math without chopping forests before. Since we can have some super early GS (if we go with ah->TW->wtg (mining?)) it could be interesting boost for all those forests around.
     
  14. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

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    I'm here checking in
     
  15. Mylene

    Mylene Chieftain

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    @Vran
    Oracle --> CoL is often strong cos you don't need the library, not being Creative it is a big hammer investment in the early rounds. Lots of stuffs to build.
    And you can breeze through the early GP generation, with getting back to building earlier :)
    Not to be underestimated is also a GM for bulbing currency, if there are AIs to trade with available this is the best economy boost you can possibly get.
     
  16. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    In terms of map expectations.

    @ V - I don't expect a simple Pangea map. Otherwise the top teams will finish this pre 500ad with a conquest win. I suspect the map maker will want to avoid that to make diplomatic win more interesting.

    In terms of wonders we learned last game at times it is easier to capture a wonder than build them. In terms of GLH we need to determine the map type and how we plan to win the game.

    The maths/ chopping idea. You are kind of sacrificing early war hammers for a boost later on. We tried that in SGOTM 13 and found we lost early growth. It is what you gain later vs what you lose early on. Early writing would make that more interesting. Is a 450 science bulb for maths a good use of a GS?

    Mylene - I think GP generation will be very important this game but it should back up our main strategy too. The same applies to oracle. An early GM is interesting if we chose a GLH approach.

    Do you have a ny like to AZ bulbing strategies?

    Other strategies to consider:

    Choking rival Ai to steal workers and limit their growth.
    E-W workboat gambit. Yes i think this will be possible early on.
    Bulbing GS to UN if we chose that. It is possible.
    Some form of Oracle strategy.
    Finding early copper/horse and early rush to grab wonders.

    Overall we neeed to quickly decide what will be quickest way to win this game. Then back this up with the right strategy. If we go diplomatic we want to feed all the Ai techs to help speed up the tech race.

    If we go conquest we want to slow down the Ai tech rate and take out the financial Ai soon to make conquest easier.

    Lots to think about and we should keep all options open and cover the game basics.
     
  17. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Guys AlanH has made the following post in the maintenance post! Please can you all abide by this!! It is probably not wise to discuss this matter here.


     
  18. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    the quickest type is strongly tied to map type Gum, so we can't look that far before T50 even maybe later (except if someone uses the flying camera to determine the layout...)

    As for the AZ bulbs, we have fishing so we can't use GS's for MC+Machinery for example.

    @My
    those 90H are pain... depends on surrounding area.

    We have fishing, we can work lake and on the other side clams+oasis for early commerce, so the writing is not so clear cut.

    The best tech path would be tied to city position, but I think it would be tough to beat 1W (to get 6F sheep) with 2nd city on the coast with oasis and clams.

    Btw I wanted to reiterate something we discucssed with koss in our thread SGOTM 13 and it's imo crucial thing.

    On Emperor it's not about city 2, but about city 4... if we optimize city times, we should look that far. We beat PD with city 2, but they beat us with city 3+4 by few hundreds years... it costed us production queues and commerce.

    That's why i would like to start 1W with AH->TW->min->writing, size 3 (or 4 since there is the PH unforested) settler and road towards the coast.
    This early city could be our work boat gambit...

    I want to playtest this of course first :). But it's my lay out for early game.

    Btw the 6F sheep with 5F corn and to lesser extent plains cow and charismatic should lead us to slavery... which a bit conflicts with my view of Writing before BW... it's something I have to think through.

    edit:
    xpost... without flying... well it should be more important the correct scouting in early game! we should make short turnsets!!
     
  19. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    V - I think you cross posted on my previous post about flying camera!

    Flying camera is not permitted this game!

    Slavery vs caste is a debate to be had. A war game will mainly use slavery i suspect. Diplomatic maybe caste.

    City 2/3/4 - We slowed our growth to grab oracle and TC. We could of expanded much faster really if we had chopped the forest early on. Again early scouting will be key this game. Barb galleys pre T100. Early rush pre T150 by naval assault.

    As for starting location. we should choose a capital that we judge will best match the strategy we think we need to win the game. As ever they have given us a plains hill to maybe settle on. Every time PD have done this!!
     
  20. Mylene

    Mylene Chieftain

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    Early rush or not is a difficult topic with PHI from my experience.
    On Emperor, it should be possible to bulb to units that can really wind up AIs quick, the question here is what is faster: older units that have a chance to die and are most likely slower, or better units at a later starting date with just rolling over the AIs ;)

    First plan should be to test out into every little detail the bulbing possibilities.
    Especially towards Astro. I'll to this tonight ~~
    If there are AIs reachable by land, it gets more tricky.
    There we would have to find a good balance between using them as tech partners for a while, or taking them over with something as early as HAs.
    As Gumi says, scouting is the key :)
     

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