SGOTM 14 - Xteam

[Mad Professor]

Forgot I had that.

The problem will be, with ransom personalities, trying to figure out who is who. I also cannot seem to figure out how much changes, whether it is simply the traits of whether the entire personality is shifted over. Not sure how we are going to tell?

You only need to .zip it. It is attached below.

Ah - yes, that small piece of critical information that I had forgotten... Thanks Leif. I remember now - zipping fixes a heap if problems when it comes to uploading files...!

That spreadsheet that Leif has uploaded has all the info those various files I uploaded has I think, though a couple of them that I uploaded might be arrangements of the information into a different order that some might find useful.

The problem with the random personalities though is that the leader names get shuffled!

 

[leif erikson]

Saves are posted and available HERE.

Seems like consensus is to move the Warrior to the NE? See what he can see and then we can decide where to settle our Capital?

btw, our starting techs include Archery, wondering if there is a good reason why? Best be on the lookout for something mean wondering about, The Wicked Witch of the West?
Will need some Munchkin protection...

Not sure who has time to start, so propose the following roster (please post and we can adjust):

The-Hawk
DJMGator13
-Asterix-
Mad Professor
Cactus Pete
Htadus
leif

 

[The-Hawk]

I'm assuming we will be doing extensive testing after the first warrior move which means the first turnset will be played sometime next week. I will be traveling next week and the following week as well. Might want to bump me down the list.

I agree... warrior NE.

Also agree with your reflection on Archery. Something fishy is going on in Oz.

 

[Mad Professor]

I'm assuming we will be doing extensive testing after the first warrior move which means the first turnset will be played sometime next week. I will be traveling next week and the following week as well. Might want to bump me down the list.

I'm not a good replacement, as next week is looking dicey for me also

I agree... warrior NE.

Yes, let's move him, adjust the test save and do some messing around with it to see what sites are best.

Also agree with your reflection on Archery. Something fishy is going on in Oz.

Yes, very fishy. Surely not an error by our noble game designer, so therefore there's a reason - and therefore it might be worth building an archer sometime early on?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Archery indeed puzzling. Neither AI nor barbs at Emperor level can violate culture until 2000BC in Vanilla. Is that not also true in BtS? Could the game creator alter this?

It does allow for a more durable explorer.

Whoever starts should certainly be someone who has time to fully participate in testing. I do not have as much time as I'd like to do that, but I will do it, if no one else is in good shape to take it.

 

[-Asterix-]

That Archery sure sounds weird... Can't think of any reason why it's there. I don't think there are any nasty "super-barbs" as in some previous XOTMs as there should be a clear reference to that in introduction. Otherwise it would be a not-very-funny game killer for many teams.

What comes to roster, not sure if I can be very helpful during the initial stages of the game. I'll be busy at work for the next two weeks, hoping to have time to finish the ongoing XOTMs in time and do some testing. After three and a half weeks I'll have a conference trip but after that I should have plenty of time to test and play.

 

[The-Hawk]

I don't think there are any nasty "super-barbs"

Wizard of Oz... maybe there are lots of "lions and tigers and bears, oh my".

 

[Htadus]

If needed, I can step in. Regardless of who does it, we need to document the demo screen to see if anything can be learned.

As for random leaders, only 2 are easily identifiable; Toku and Mansa. No OB and trades. Zara is a possibility also due to pleased nature.

I have not open the save but as you say we know Archery: Not raging Barb right? Or isolated to seem like a barb invasion? to need archery.

 

[leif erikson]

If needed, I can step in. Regardless of who does it, we need to document the demo screen to see if anything can be learned.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "the demo screen"?

I have not open the save but as you say we know Archery: Not raging Barb right? Or isolated to seem like a barb invasion? to need archery.

From the game setting section of the game announcement:
Options: No Vassals, No Huts, No Events, Random Personalities. Barbs are at default setting.

Suggest in testing, we try to get an early Archer.

If you wish to lead us off, that would be fine. If so, please open the save and move the Warrior NE, stop, save and take a screen shot and post it.

Then we can build, or modify Hawk's, test save, including Archery. And give this start a test drive...

 

[Cactus Pete]

Sounds good. Interested to see what the warrior sees.

 

[Htadus]

Not sure I understand what you mean by "the demo screen"? Demographic Screen
.......
If you wish to lead us off, that would be fine. If so, please open the save and move the Warrior NE, stop, save and take a screen shot and post it.

Then we can build, or modify Hawk's, test save, including Archery. And give this start a test drive...

As you wished Leif,

The View: Stone

Spoiler :

Demographic: Mansa and someone unusually weak

Spoiler :

Tech Screen: AH placeholder

Spoiler :

VC Screen: 8 AI? but 4 opponants --> 4 teams of 2

Spoiler :

 

[Mad Professor]

The View: Stone

I'm liking 1W as an initial settling spot even better. Put a coastal city up there near the oasis, crab and stone...? Perhaps even on the hill NE of oasis. Depends what's further N and W of there.

Demographic: Mansa and someone unusually weak

This game is far, far from standard.

VC Screen: 8 AI? but 4 opponants --> 4 teams of 2

?? Yikes. Emperor teams of two? Tech pace possibly equivalent to deity?

 

[-Asterix-]

Demographic: Mansa and someone unusually weak

I have never really analyzed those power statistics so just to know if I'm on right tracks:

1) AI starting units on Emperor are 2 x archer (2 x 3k = 6k points) + 2 x scout (0 points), everybody starts with Archery (6k points) -> 12k total.
2) Mansa & Hammurabi are the only civs with archer UU, those give 4k points instead so starting points for Mansa & Hammurabi are 14k from units and Archery.
3) Rest of the points comes from normal starting techs: 2k from Hunting and Mining, 4k from The Wheel. Mansa has Mining + TW so 6k points for him.

Conclusions:

- This gives Mansa 20k points. Where does that extra 2k come from?
- This gives every AI the minimum of 12k points. How can somebody have 13k? Maybe one AI (Wizard of OZ???) is settled already and gets 1k points from 1 pop?
- How about warriors? Does some AI get warrior(s) (1k points/piece) in the beginning?

VC Screen: 8 AI? but 4 opponants --> 4 teams of 2

This sounds extraordinary! To be sure, has anybody checked how victory screen looks if you start a game with 4 teams of 2 AIs? Does it look like the one we have here? On the other hand, this would kind of suggest that the Wizard of Oz is a barb unit somewhere as I don't think it would be a civ teamed with some other civ...

How confusing!

 

[-Asterix-]

The View: Stone

Some ideas:

Why not move also our settler 1W to see more surroundings? Would we lose something in the process? I guess we want both corn and sheep to our capital's bfc so we could use the second movement point to either settle there (1W) or move to one of the forests around. We won't be settling our capital further east, right?

Isn't that the border of the map in east? That would suggest heading west with our next cities to claim land. Maybe we won't be needing an exploring workboat so soon?

How about next movements for warrior? 1NW to oasis and then 1NE to hill?

For me, the plains tiles 1W from settler and 1E from oasis look like very potential tiles to have a hidden resource in them. That's why I would avoid settling those tiles unless it would give some nice benefits.

Does that stone (with plenty of forests around) give anybody goose bumps and increasing interest to build Mids for abusing specialist economy with philo leader?

 

[Mad Professor]

Isn't that the border of the map in east?

Yes! I missed that. But it is definitely the edge of the map.

For me, the plains tiles 1W from settler and 1E from oasis look like very potential tiles to have a hidden resource in them. That's why I would avoid settling those tiles unless it would give some nice benefits.

Hmm - the possibility of resource in the tile 1W of the settler is something on the negative side for settling there. Otherwise...

Does that stone (with plenty of forests around) give anybody goose bumps and increasing interest to build Mids for abusing specialist economy with philo leader?

Absolutely! Early representation from the pyramids is a real bonus with a philo leader, especially when combined with caste system. Having stone, hills and forests there certainly is like the map holding up a big sign: "Build the pyramids!" Of course, that adds masonry to the list of early tech priorities... And fairly prompt CoL for caste might get us really cooking...

 

[leif erikson]

Here is the article on how to read the demographics screen from the War Academy. As you will see, the "soldiers" formula is quite complicated. A civ with no units, but extra techs, rates higher. Also, wouldn't this rating be affected by teams, two civs combined?

Agree on not settling on resources, but I just do not see how 1 west is not where we want to go?
If this is the consensus, then Htadus should move the settler and post again so we can make the "final" decision.

If the map edge is east, workboats are not a real priority...

edit -
Just created a random game, including 4 teams of two civs each. Two of the teams included Mansa with another civ and Hammy with another civ. Here is the resulting demo screen:

 

[-Asterix-]

Here is the article on how to read the demographics screen from the War Academy. As you will see, the "soldiers" formula is quite complicated. A civ with no units, but extra techs, rates higher. Also, wouldn't this rating be affected by teams, two civs combined?

Yup, that's the article I read earlier for the information I wrote above. I don't think teams affect this as I started a random game with Mansa and the leader there had 22k points in power graph. Of course there may be something cooked here so this all is just speculation.

Agree on not settling on resources, but I just do not see how 1 west is not where we want to go?

From what we see atm, the difference between settling 1W and for example 1N is the trade-off between cows and oasis. SIP would give both but lose sheep and I think we need the sheep for food here. Dunno how different options would play out so we should test different openings with an updated test save.

Just created a random game, including 4 teams of two civs each. Two of the teams included Mansa with another civ and Hammy with another civ.

How does the victory screen look like? Does it have "4 rivals left" despite there are 8 AI civs as in the screen Htadus posted from the game?

 

[leif erikson]

Yup, that's the article I read earlier for the information I wrote above. I don't think teams affect this as I started a random game with Mansa and the leader there had 22k points in power graph. Of course there may be something cooked here so this all is just speculation.

I guess we'll find out, the hard way...

From what we see atm, the difference between settling 1W and for example 1N is the trade-off between cows and oasis. SIP would give both but lose sheep and I think we need the sheep for food here. Dunno how different options would play out so we should test different openings with an updated test save.

How do we make the test save?
With a resource on the 1 W tile, or not?

How does the victory screen look like? Does it have "4 rivals left" despite there are 8 AI civs as in the screen Htadus posted from the game?

Looks much the same.
edit - I did not load this save into buffy, so you may see minor discrepancies between the screens.
Looks like we are facing 4 - teams of 2 - civs each. Should be interesting...

 

[The-Hawk]

VC Screen: 8 AI? but 4 opponants --> 4 teams of 2

Nice catch.

Dunno how different options would play out so we should test different openings with an updated test save.

I assume we should build a test with teams as opponents. Don't think I can modify my existing test to do so. We will need a new one. Question is, do we wait until the settler moves west for a new screenie.

Risk of moving west for a new screenie... if SIP is out best option, we lose a turn. My gut feel says SIP is not as good as 1W or 1N, but it may be worth some testing.

 

[The-Hawk]

Crossed posts...

How do we make the test save?
With a resource on the 1 W tile, or not?

I would say without. Once we make the settling decision, if we got this wrong, we can pause and retest. However, I don't see how we can guess at what might be on that tile.