SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Buffy Log: BUG Wiki for Autolog

No Horses! Toku has Copper! Bear by the gems! :cry: That's pretty much the trifecta of badness. Do we still press on for Masonry, or is it time for Archery or BW?

How do things look otherwise? Screenshots? :yumyum:
 
The roster order on 02/06

Conquistador63 = waiting
Ronnie1 = waiting
sleepless = waiting
McArine = just played
adrianj = UP NOW
Grifftavian = on deck
mc-red = in the hole
Ozbenno = waiting
da_Vinci = waiting

Better have a look at the save!
 
The bear isn't a huge problem, if we move and settle the same turn, even if the bear is in our borders he will leave the next turn and can't raze the city.

The lack of horses is a different problem all together. We really need to be clear on our tech path going forward IMO.

Interesting mountain range moving to the NW with seemingly no end in sight.
 
Ooo I'm up. Not yet a "got it", since I'm not at the right computer to look at the save. Will do so this evening.

Basic PPP will be something like:

First: Un Pause Game!

Tech: Masonry was original choice. Does this need review?

Build Path:
Delhi = Settler -> Worker. Or do we need more fogbusting warriors before Worker?
Bombay = Worker -> Stonehenge.

Settler: Is Ron's purple dot our preferred location? Or the site on forest between pigs/gems? If the former, then the bear shouldn't be a problem. If the latter, I'll need to be extra careful, preferably killing the bear.

Workers: FW1 to complete road connection. Then build Gem mine. FW2 to pasture sheep

Units: Try to take out gems bear on defense at high odds. Northen warrior to continue north.

Stop Conditions: If we meet another AI. If Toku is WHEOOHRN. Stonehenge BIFAL. Other disappointing things.
 
Purple dot was suggested by sleepless a while back and I used it in some of my testing. The forest square obviously gets the food in play sooner, but it is a weaker production city for sure. Another benefit of the forest, it is coastal for more exploring options.

I have to say I am a bit concerned about the lack of horses, and would not be at all surprised to find no copper either. Iron Working is quite a slog, but Oracle for Feudalism and early Long Bows needs to be considered I think. Safe route seems to be Archery next.

How long we have before Toku declares war is a total crap shoot. It could be 50 turns or 10... :(
 
Ron, could we get a few more screenshots?
* land around Bombay and Osaka/Kyoto, preferably with tile yield turned on,
* inside each of our cities with hover text over production.

Purple dot does have much better production, which I like the sound of :) First build in purple dot = worker? With two workers and a third from city #3 we can afford to let the capital grow to max size while building warriors or wonders. At the moment I think some more warriors are needed to fog bust up around the northern deer/gold site and to garrison inside Delhi.
 
Here you go!
 
Thanks Ron.

I wasn't aware that Delhi had only 3 improved tiles, I thought we had a fourth. I think that producing the worker next is the right move so that we can get some mines built for the city to grow on to. An extra worker for quarries once we get Masonry will also be valuable.

The more I consider the cultural pressure that Osaka is going to put on Bombay, the more I like the idea of building Stonehenge here. The fastest route is most likely to tech Masonry next, followed by BW and chop/whip it to completion. The earlier worker from Delhi would be a bonus here to get the Stone quarried ASAP. Consider the following MM plan for Bombay:
T43-T48: complete worker.
T49-T53: working gold mine while pasture is being built. (SH = 24/120)
T54-T58: working sheep till size 2. Stone quarried ~T58. (SH = 29/120)
T59-T65: working sheep + gold till growth to size 3. (SH = 85/120, could 1pop whip or 1 forest chop if we had BW)
T66-T68: working sheep+gold+gmine till SH complete EOT 68.

Alternative, with no growth.
T43-T48: complete worker.
T49-T58: stick with gold mine, stone not yet connected (SH = 40/120)
T59-T68: stone connected T59. SH completes T68. Same as above but still at size 1...

If SH is built T68, then borders will be expanded T70.

If Delhi starts SH right after the worker build, then it's MM could be:
T43-T46: build worker with 8 overflow.
T47-T51: build SH while growing to size 4. (SH = 40/120)
T52-T58: city at size 4 works gmine. SH completes EOT 58. Before stone even connected. Bombay's borders will expand by T68.

I'm not sure BW would arrive in time to have much influence on the date we complete SH.

Delhi can obviously build SH must quicker than Bombay. We could have Bombay build The Oracle for us instead...
 
Thanks Ron.

I wasn't aware that Delhi had only 3 improved tiles, I thought we had a fourth. I think that producing the worker next is the right move so that we can get some mines built for the city to grow on to. An extra worker for quarries once we get Masonry will also be valuable.

The more I consider the cultural pressure that Osaka is going to put on Bombay, the more I like the idea of building Stonehenge here. The fastest route is most likely to tech Masonry next, followed by BW and chop/whip it to completion. The earlier worker from Delhi would be a bonus here to get the Stone quarried ASAP. Consider the following MM plan for Bombay:
T43-T48: complete worker.
T49-T53: working gold mine while pasture is being built. (SH = 24/120)
T54-T58: working sheep till size 2. Stone quarried ~T58. (SH = 29/120)
T59-T65: working sheep + gold till growth to size 3. (SH = 85/120, could 1pop whip or 1 forest chop if we had BW)
T66-T68: working sheep+gold+gmine till SH complete EOT 68.

Alternative, with no growth.
T43-T48: complete worker.
T49-T58: stick with gold mine, stone not yet connected (SH = 40/120)
T59-T68: stone connected T59. SH completes T68. Same as above but still at size 1...

If SH is built T68, then borders will be expanded T70.

If Delhi starts SH right after the worker build, then it's MM could be:
T43-T46: build worker with 8 overflow.
T47-T51: build SH while growing to size 4. (SH = 40/120)
T52-T58: city at size 4 works gmine. SH completes EOT 58. Before stone even connected. Bombay's borders will expand by T68.

I'm not sure BW would arrive in time to have much influence on the date we complete SH.

Delhi can obviously build SH must quicker than Bombay. We could have Bombay build The Oracle for us instead...

The grass hill SE of Delhi is 1 turn from having the mine complete.
 
Good news Osaka hasn't got a monument yet and even a possibility Tok doesn't have Myst so perhaps not to much of a hurry for pressure in Bombay. Have to read up on the commments tomorrow.
 
Good news gold in the North has a food tile which helps. With that site and crab/banana we have 2 strong coastal sites so I prefer going for purple dot (non coastal) for the gem city.

Tech path. For me Masonry - BW - Priest - (no bronze archery before priest).

Wonders. I like SH in Delhi finishes much earlier and gives Bombay the chance to grow a bit. It would also be a lot bigger by the time we are ready to build the Oracle.

Oracle tech to take Feud we would have to self tech monarchy which I think is doubtful on our tech path. With enough Archers or Axes we should be safe from Tok. City walls with stone would be easy enough build as well.

So I would prefer to oracle/bulb Theo still. Also still like the culture path to victory.
 
Since we have to tech Mono to open up Theology anyway, just 1 more tech (Monarchy) allows Feudalism and we will still get a Great Prophet to bulb Theo!

Side note, we are 43 turns in and still no one has teched Meditation for the religion. Can we deduce anything about our possible opponents from this lack of religious pursuit?
 
...Tech path. For me Masonry - BW - Priest - (no bronze archery before priest)....
If our rear-term goal is still to get to Theology ASAP and grab The AP before the Buddhists, then I like this research path as well.

...Side note, we are 43 turns in and still no one has teched Meditation for the religion. Can we deduce anything about our possible opponents from this lack of religious pursuit?
I imagine the game designer(s) did some play testing before releasing the game for competition, and probably discovered the "Meditation Issue" themselves. Could it be that all AI Opponents are Civs that do not start with Mysticism, and have been given both Buddhism & Meditation?
 
I imagine the game designer(s) did some play testing before releasing the game for competition, and probably discovered the "Meditation Issue" themselves. Could it be that all AI Opponents are Civs that do not start with Mysticism, and have been given both Buddhism & Meditation?
I think this is probably true, but the "right" AI (think Gandhi) still go after religions. I am thinking that all of the AI in this game value religion very little if it all.
 
I am also in favour of the: Masonry -> BW -> (if no copper, Archery) -> PH.
I think the initial plan from there was: Monotheism -> (GProphet bulb Theology) -> Writing -> (Oracle CoL). Is that still the case? Whatever we choose, it doesn't affect next turnset.

By the way, I Got It.

PPP Questions in Red.

First things first
Unpause game if it's paused.
Post signs for good northern fogbusting locations.
Dotmap Deer/Gold city - how does 1SW of gold sound?

Tech
Masonry (5 turns) -> BW (8-10 turns).
I'll go 100% research on Masonry and likely drop it to 40% or so on the last turn in order to complete it before cash runs out. BW I'll play it by ear a bit more, 0% for a few turns till we have enough cash to complete it at 100%.

Scope
I'll plan to play for 8 turns or so. This is a little longer than Masonry, but not all the way in to BW. Or would you guys prefer I proper paused after Masonry? No need to pause.

Delhi
Worker -> Stonehenge. Working Deer+Corn+Stone while size 3, add GMine at size 4.

Bombay
Worker -> Warriors for fogbusting. Would we build a barracks or walls here? Worker -> Warrior -> (Barracks not in turnset)

New City
Warriors? Worker? Barracks? Worker
I can't recall what the city gets named. If it's any more than 2 syllables I'll truncate it :)

Workers
FW1: completes road -> Gem mine -> Stone quarry.
FW2: born in Bombay -> Pasture Sheep -> part GMine 2W of Bombay -> Bombay-Delhi road -> part farm S of Bombay -> GMine SE of Bombay.
FW3: born in Delhi -> part farm SW of Delhi -> GMine 2S of Delhi -> Stone quarry -> Marble quarry.
Generally I'm trying not to waste any movement, hence the part builds.

Units
Northern scout warrior keep heading north. We need to make contact with another AI before Toku will let us know if he is WHEOOHRN.
W2 hang around the bear gems until city #3 founded, then head toward northern gold to fogbust.
Bombay warrior... not much to do. Garrison in Bombay? Head north to fogbust?

Civic/Religion
Definitely no religion change!
No civic changes.

Diplomacy
Not really any trading we can do, since Toku hates us so much. I don't think he would demand anything off us, except maybe a religion change but I'd certainly say no to that.
Can anybody think of any reason to contact him? Nope

Stop Conditions
I reach T51.
Stonehenge built by AI.
Oracle built by AI.
Contact made
Judaism or CoL founded by AI
Toku WHEOOHRN or stack appears.
Other terrible things happen.

I can probably play on Saturday morning/afternoon NZ time (Friday afternoon/evening EST). Failing that, then Sunday. Playing during the week is more difficult.


Edit1: Changed worker actions.
Edit2: Questions answered in Blue
 
I know the existing worker skipped a tile on the road to Bombay, you probably want to get that finished for better movement and the coin from the trade route.

I like worker 1st in the new city as well.

I see no reason to really take a chance with the bear if we are going to settle the purple dot(I like this site).

Initial warrior I like garrison in Bombay, no reason to tempt fate even more.
 
Good point about the road to Bombay being incomplete. I had hoped that the road NW of the gold would have connected to the river, but it seems this isn't the case. I guess it comes down to priorities, we have six things we want done in the short term:
  • Mine gems (FW1)
  • Pasture Sheep (FW2)
  • Delhi GMine (FW3)
  • Road to Bombay (FW2)
  • Quarry stone (FW1+FW3)
  • Quarry Marble (FW1+FW3)
I've listed them there in the order I think they can get done, and by who. I'm suggesting the Delhi GMine can be completed sooner than the stone quarry since it has only 1 turn remaining, though that 1 turn is probably more like 3 considering turns to move there and back.

I won't attempt to fight the bear, just keep an eye on it. If it moves onto the purple dot site I guess settling the city will just have to be delayed until it moves off again.

Garrison in Bombay - how are we tempting fate there? Do you think the AI sees an undefended city and gets an itchy trigger finger? Fog busting north of the city might be more valuable to prevent human barbs spawning.
 
Just call me paranoid...but yes, I think an undefended city draws attention.
 
Scope
I'll plan to play for 8 turns or so. This is a little longer than Masonry, but not all the way in to BW. Or would you guys prefer I proper paused after Masonry?
OK by me if you play through learning BW if you would like.

Bombay
Worker -> Warriors for fogbusting. Would we build a barracks or walls here?
Could build 3.1 Warriors for the cost of the Barracks, and a Combat I Warrior wouldn't fare that much better against Axes/Spears/Archers if Toku does come at us soon. I'd hold off on the Barracks unit we have better units to build. Walls con probably wait until Stone is hooked up, unless an emergency situation arises! :run:

New City
Warriors? Worker? Barracks?
I can't recall what the city gets named. If it's any more than 2 syllables I'll truncate it
IMO initial build = Fast Worker. Not sure on subsequent builds. Perhaps Warrior or two if we need them for MP duties. IIRC, the name of the next Indian City is Vijaysomethingorother. If it was just me, I'd go with Bejeweled Pig for this city. :mischief:

Bombay warrior... not much to do. Garrison in Bombay? Head north to fogbust?
With Toku to the east and SE, and Mountain Peaks to the north, not too much fogbusting to do here. This Warrior has the Woodsman I promo; perhaps move him 1NW into the forest 1N of Bombay. I think he could fogbust to the north there and still be able to move into Bombay for CG duties if needed.

Diplomacy
Not really any trading we can do, since Toku hates us so much. I don't think he would demand anything off us, except maybe a religion change but I'd certainly say no to that.
Can anybody think of any reason to contact him?
Not until its time to say "You have settled on lands that rightfully belong to us." :assimilate:

Stop Conditions
I reach T51.
Stonehenge built by AI.
Oracle built by AI.
Contact made?
Judaism or CoL founded by AI?

Toku WHEOOHRN or stack appears.
Other terrible things happen.
Concur.

I can probably play on Saturday morning/afternoon NZ time (Friday afternoon/evening EST). Failing that, then Sunday. Playing during the week is more difficult.
Good luck!
 
PPP sounds good to me.

No probs with going a few turns into BW. We need to look to expand again shortly as the gold/deer site is a good spot and if it does the same as Bombay and builds a fw off the gold mine won't cost much.

City builds? With all the mountains it doesn't seem as we have a lot to fogbust. Of course trouble is we don't have alot to build atm. So I would go fw -warrior - barracks in Bombay (unless I'm missing space to fogbust). Don't want to end up paying for military if we can help it. New city FW.

Everything else seems fine. Good Luck AJ.
 
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