1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    7,613
    Location:
    47.48N 117.77W
    Are you saying to switch to Monument in Vijay now?, or build it after the worker is complete?

    What kind of tech path to the Oracle from here? What tech to take from Oracle?
     
  2. adrianj

    adrianj Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,054
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I'm not convinced we need a worker so soon out of Vijay. The earlier we get the monument there (or get lucky and have religion spread) the sooner it will be able to work the powerful Pigs tile.

    Whether we build monument -> whip -> overflow into X Or build X -> whip monument -> continue X makes no difference I don't think. Provided X isn't a worker or settler build, since that would prevent the whip.

    I agree that Bombay can wait a little longer so that it's always working it's 2 most powerful tiles. If we took this idea to the extreme - ie, Bombay doesn't really need a border expansion at all - then we could skip Monument entirely and go direct for something like the Pyramids.

    Or, Bombay could use the monument as a sort of ":hammers: bank" for the Pyramids. Build monument while the stone is unquarried, then whip near the end of the monument build (and quarry built) to get lots of overflow as a head start on the mids.
     
  3. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    7,613
    Location:
    47.48N 117.77W
    Workers???

    We have 2 now right?

    We need roads to connect our cities.
    We need 2 quarries.
    We need to pasture the sheep.
    We need to mine hills at Bombay.
    We need to finish mine at Delhi(only 1 turn).
    We can pre-road to the gold city if it is fog busted.
    We will soon need to improve the new gold city site.

    It seems to me that another worker would be good. How far into that build at Vijay are we????....when will it be done?
     
  4. adrianj

    adrianj Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,054
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    It's 3 turns into the worker build (48/60 @ 4/turn). It still has another 12 turns left.

    We have 2 workers right now, and a 3rd will be born in Bombay next turn. Your list of improvements is a good list. If we elaborate it a little, presenting it in order and the number of turns needed: (I'm not sure how long quarries take, is it 6 turns?)

    • Gem Mine (2 turns)
    • Delhi GMine (1 turn)
    • Sheep Pasture (5 turns)
    • Quarries (16 turns including movement)
    • Road to Bombay (3 turns including movement)
    • GMine for Bombay (5 turns)
    • GMine for Delhi (5 turns)
    • ??? for Vijay

    That's a total of 37 worker turns. Share it amongst 3 workers (12 turns) and all the jobs will be done roughly the same time as Vijay's worker build.

    The worker build is still valuable I think, but it can come in after the monument. If we get lucky and Vijay has Hinduism spread to it, we can still continue with the monument build with an eye to switching back to worker build at size 2 and whipping when possible.
     
  5. adrianj

    adrianj Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,054
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Are Vijay and Delhi even connected by river trade? If not, then we might need to include a road between the two cities, at least until either of them pop borders again.

    Delhi building warriors until size 4 - at it's current rate it will produce 2 warriors and 3 overflow. If we work the floodplain instead of the stone for the first 2 turns then we will produce 1 warrior with 0 overflow, but grow to size 4 1 turn earlier. I suspect this equates to building the subsequent settler 1 turn earlier as well. Something to consider if we feel we have enough of an abundance of warriors.
     
  6. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    7,613
    Location:
    47.48N 117.77W
    I forgot about the worker coming from Bombay, that makes a huge difference! 3 workers is much better than 2 at this point with 3 cities and planning city #4.

    Monument in Vijay seems reasonable now. What about Bombay? Is it worth the hammers there, or just start straight away on the Pyramids?
     
  7. Sleepless

    Sleepless Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    3,513
    Mmm away from the save for a couple of days as well but I had a very quick look at the last save.

    Things we agree on. BW as next tech. Then?? Not keen on IW and would prefer to go for priest or archery. Oracle build in Bombay then would be a good option.

    With SH built an AI might be on the way to Priest but might be doubtful with Med religion still available. So what tech from the Oracle if we can get it.

    Alot depends on whether we still go for cultural or a military one. We now know we have access to 2 AI. Luckily they are not normally to aggressive which I think still gives us a bit of spare time to dcide.
     
  8. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,647
    Location:
    1 SW of Atlanta. GA USA
    PPP: T48/2080 BC until completion of Bronze Working (~8 to 10 turns)
    Questions in Blue
    VERSION 2 Version 2A

    RESEARCH
    finish Masonry (1T)
    Bronze Working (7T + a few more at 0% Science to replenish Treasury)
    Plan to stop after BW; will put Priesthood in as placeholder Tech pending further discussions for next turn set.

    CITY BUILDS
    Delhi
    Warriors until Size 4 (~2 Warriors) (4T)
    Settler @ Size 4 (~7T)

    Bombay
    finish Fast Worker (1T)
    Monument (~8T) Whip @ Size 2!!
    start Pyramids (?T)

    Vijay
    Chg build to Monument (15T) moving citizen to Gem Mine when completed in 2T. Whip @ Size 2!!
    finish FW (12T)

    FAST WORKER ACTION PLAN
    FW1: finish Gem Mine (2t); partial build roads back to Delhi via Corn Farm while moving to build Stone Quarry
    FW2: Mine GHill 2S of Delhi; Marble Quarry
    FW3: (built in Bombay in 1T) Sheep Pasture; road on GHill 1S of Deer Camp to connect Bombay to Delhi; GHill mines for Bombay
    FW4: (to be built in Vijay in 12T) Pig Pasture if borders of Vijay have popped, otherwise Farm 1S of Vijay NOTE: FW4 may not be completed this turn set.

    UNIT MOVES
    Warrior: move to 1NE of Vijay & lookout for Barb Archer; continue N to fogbust for future Deer/Gold city site if Barb Archer not spotted.
    Warrior 1: Explore around Babylonian territory
    Warrior 2: Sentry/Fortify in Vijay
    Warrior 3: Sentry/Fortify in Delhi
    Warrior 4: (to be built in Delhi) Sentry/Fortify in Bombay
    Warrior 5: (to be built in Delhi) Garrison for future Deer/Gold city #4.

    THE OTHER STUFF
    No Civics changes planned
    Religion change not allowed
    Resource & Tech trading currently unavailable
    Be nice to the neighbors

    REASONS TO PAUSE
    Meeting a new AI Civ
    Pesky Barbarian encrochment
    Anything unusual happens

    I can play anytime between now and this coming Thursday with PPP concurrance.

    My Goddaughter is getting married next Saturday and I'll be unable to play this coming weekend until perhaps late next Sunday, so if it takes longer than that to concur on a PPP, then I'll be happy to swap positions with someone else.
     
  9. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    7,613
    Location:
    47.48N 117.77W
    Everything looks good except we won't have 4 workers, so those actions will have to get worked in somewhere else.

    Since the barb archer turned around, do we want to send the warrior closest to Bombay back that direction since Delhi is building 2 more?

    I think the roads connecting the cities needs to be a reasonably high priority. With our worker ability to move 2 and still do something, it should be easy to get those roads up.
     
  10. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Gypsy King

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,212
    Location:
    Brazil
    Agree with Ronnie's above post.

    We don't need to road the sheep pasture nor the deer camp to connect these resourcers, they are/will be connected by the rivers. What we DO need is to road the grass hill 1S of the deer, as the road already built 1W of gold does NOT connect to the river which flows N/NW of Delhi. The roaded tile isn't even a fresh water tile, although it is deceitfully diagonal to river fountainhead. Roading the deer camp would serve the same purpose but as it is a forested hill it would use up all 3 movement points of our fast worker, whereas moving onto the unforested grass will use 2mp - it can start the road in the same turn.

    EDIT: for clarity's sake, we can connect cities by rivers without sailing if both cities and the river flowing through those are inside contiguous borders - same applies to riverside resources.
     
  11. adrianj

    adrianj Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,054
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Revised PPP looks good to me, except for one thing - the warrior fog busters.

    We can't just ignore the barb archer. I suggest we send 3 warriors towards it, and try to either kill it on defense or attack it on offense. In both cases aim for high odds, ie, defend from hills/forest, attack on flat/clear. Surviving warriors (hopefully 2/3 survive, 3/3 is a bonus) continue toward northern fog busting positions. I consider this more important than garrison duty.

    I also agree with C63's point about roading the deer tile. Do the grass hill instead.
     
  12. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,647
    Location:
    1 SW of Atlanta. GA USA
    That was my intention, but it may have been unclear the way I worded it. On the current turn, he moves via the road through Delhi to 1S of the Stone Hill. Next 2 turns he moves NW onto the hills, ending up 1NE of Vijay. If he doesn't spot the Barb Archer, he can proceed N on the hills toward City site #4. If he does spot the Barb Archer, I'll do what I can to keep the Warrior safe while keeping an eye on the Archer.

    EDIT: X-post with aj
     
  13. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,647
    Location:
    1 SW of Atlanta. GA USA
    OK, no roads on the Deer & Sheep; road on GHill 1s of Deer to connect Bombay to Delhi.

    If I understand C63's comment correctly, Vijay will be connected to Delhi via the river once Vijay's borders pop and it encompasses the bend in the river 2S of Vijay. That being the case, do we need roads between Vijay & Delhi right away? I could have FW1 partially build roads while moving to the Stone hill; would get the Stone Quarry up a few turns sooner.

    ALSO: regarding the black dot map for city #4, is that where we want it? I know it has the Deer & Gold in the first ring of the city's borders, but it will include 6 unworkable Mountain Peaks when the borders expand to the BFC. Would it not be better to place City #4 1SW, on the GHill with the "Bear T25" label? Replaces unworkable Mountain Peaks with mostly coastal tiles, but gives us a coastal city if we want to get some exploring Work Boats out in the near future.
     
  14. adrianj

    adrianj Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,054
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    The black dot maps aren't for cities - they are positions for fog busters. I should have made that clearer I guess. I suspect our site for city #4 will in fact be 1S of the black fog bust location, or as you suggest. I think this is outside the scope of the turnset, but I suppose now is as good a time as any to discuss it.

    Waiting until Vijay's borders expand could be quite some time. Part building the roads while moving to stone sounds good, and then complete the job later on.
     
  15. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    7,613
    Location:
    47.48N 117.77W
    I agree with this post completely. IMO, you are ready to play Griff.
     
  16. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,647
    Location:
    1 SW of Atlanta. GA USA
    Updated PPP with Version 2A changes in Purple.

    I'll start turn set in ~1 hour from this post!
     
  17. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    7,613
    Location:
    47.48N 117.77W
    Good luck!
     
  18. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,647
    Location:
    1 SW of Atlanta. GA USA
    >>>> BREAKING NEWS <<<<

    Prices for Copper Futures dropped shapely in worldwide markets this evening when Indian Prime Minister Gandhi announced that his nation had discovered a rare source of Copper in the catacombs of Delhi. In making the announcement, an obviously happy Gandhi said "Soon we too will have Axes to Grind like our neighbors!" Meanwhile in Kyoto, Japanese Emperor Tokugawa responded with a terse "No Comment" when asked about the Indian discovery.

    I have played my turn and up loaded the save to the P&R page, or you can get it here...

    http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm15/Misfit_Gypsy_Nuts_SG015_BC1720_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

    Masonry & Bronze Working have been learned. I've put Priesthood as the next tech to research, but there are no :science: invested in it.

    Marble Quarry & Stone Quarry have been completed; neither has a road, but doesn't look like they will need one since they are both riverside.

    Sheep Pasture built near Bombay, and Bombay has been connected to Delhi via roads.

    Gem Mine built near Vijay; Vijay can be connected to Delhi via roads in 1 turn.

    Judaism was founded and The Great Wall build in distant lands during this turn set.

    The Barb Archer is dead, killed by Warrior 5 after the Barb Archer attacked and killed our initial Warrior. Warrior 5 is due a battlefield promotion on the next turn! The Bear may be lurking somewhere nearby, haven't seen him since early in my turn set.

    The good news is we have one source of Copper; the sort of bad news is that it is in the Delhi city square, we founded right on top of it.

    Spotted several Babylonian units: 1 Axeman, 1 Scout & 2 Workers; locations marked on the map.

    I did not revolt to Slavery, but that option is available now!

    EDIT: Babylon founded 3rd city IBT T49/T50 and... we are the worst enemy of Hammurgawa!

    Here is your Session Turn Log from 2080 BC to 1720 BC:

    Spoiler :
    Turn 48, 2080 BC: You have discovered Masonry!

    Turn 53, 1880 BC: Judaism has been founded in a distant land!

    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Bombay will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: You have discovered Bronze Working!
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: You have discovered a source of Copper near Delhi!
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land!
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Gandhi's Warrior 0 (3.90)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Combat Odds: 27.9%
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: (Feature Defense: +20%)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 0 is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 0 is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 0 is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 0 is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 0 is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 0 is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Gandhi's Warrior 0!
    Turn 56, 1760 BC: While defending, your Warrior 0 was destroyed by a Barbarian Archer!

    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Bombay has grown to size 2.
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 5 (Delhi) (2.00) vs Barbarian's Archer (1.53)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Combat Odds: 82.6%
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 5 (Delhi) is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 16 (18/100HP)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 5 (Delhi) is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 16 (2/100HP)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 5 (Delhi) is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 5 (Delhi) is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 5 (Delhi) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
    Turn 57, 1720 BC: Your Warrior 5 (Delhi) has destroyed a Archer!


    Turn Set Autolog...

    Spoiler :
    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 48/500 (2080 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:03:54]
    Delhi begins: Warrior (2 turns)
    Player Comment Start Turn Set...
    Vijayanagara begins: Monument (15 turns)
    Player Comment Chg Vijay build to Monument (15T); growth in 11T
    A Mine was built near Delhi
    100% Research: 21 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -6 per turn, 10 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Tech research finished: Masonry
    Bombay finishes: Fast Worker

    Turn 49/500 (2040 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:06:37]
    Research begun: Bronze Working (10 Turns)
    Bombay begins: Monument (30 turns)
    A Mine was built near Vijayanagara
    Player Comment Spotted Barb Archer 2NE+1N of Vijay
    100% Research: 28 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -6 per turn, 4 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Delhi finishes: Warrior

    Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:09:57]
    Delhi begins: Warrior (2 turns)
    Player Comment T50: Barb Archer & Bear 2N+1NE of Vijay
    Player Comment T50: Babylon Axe spotted near his territory
    Player Comment IBT T49/T50 Babylon founds 3rd City.
    0% Research: 0 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 22 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:15:50]
    Player Comment T51: Bear Moves E; Barb Archer moved out of sight.
    Player Comment T51: Warrior moves to 2N of Vijay, spots Barb Archer 3N+1NE of Vijay, near Gold
    0% Research: 0 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 22 per turn, 22 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Delhi grows to size 4
    Delhi finishes: Warrior

    Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:23:07]
    Delhi begins: Settler (7 turns)
    A Pasture was built near Osaka
    Player Comment T52: Barb Archer moves toward Warrior, Warrior moves back to GHill 1NE of Vijay
    100% Research: 23 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -6 per turn, 44 in the bank

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Attitude Change: Hammuragawa (Babylon) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:25:10]
    Player Comment Barb Archer moves E, does not approach Vijay; Warrior hold ground 1NE of Vijay
    100% Research: 23 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -6 per turn, 38 in the bank

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Judaism founded in a distant land

    Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:29:02]
    Player Comment IBT T53/54: Judaism founded in a distant land
    A Quarry was built near Delhi
    Player Comment T54: Barb Archer moved NE away from Vijay
    Player Comment IBT T53/T54: We are the worst enemy of Hammurgawa!
    100% Research: 23 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -6 per turn, 32 in the bank

    Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:34:00]
    Player Comment Warrior moves onto Forested Grass Hill 2N+1NE of Vijay. Barb Archer across river on another forested GHill. Our Warrior has Woodsman I, hope it helps.
    100% Research: 23 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -6 per turn, 26 in the bank

    Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:39:46]
    Player Comment T56: Barb Warrior doesn't attack across river. He moves 1W to forested grass tile. Initial Warrior w/Woodsman I (renamed Warrior 0) fortifies on Forested GHill. He is joined on that tile by Warrior 5 from Babylon.
    Player Comment Moving Warrior 3 out of Vijay towards Warriors 0 & 5 in case he is needed for mop-up attack against wounded Barb Archer.
    100% Research: 25 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: -6 per turn, 20 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Tech research finished: Bronze Working
    Bombay grows to size 2

    Other Player Actions:
    While defending in the wild near Vijayanagara, Warrior 0 loses to Barbarian Archer (1.02/3) (Prob Victory: 72.1%)

    Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [13-Feb-2012 21:49:03]
    Research begun: Priesthood (2 Turns)
    Player Comment IBT T56/57: Great Wall built in a distant land (not Toku or Hammie).
    Player Comment IBT T56/T57: Barb Archer kills Warrior 0!
    While attacking in the wild near Vijayanagara, Warrior 5 (Delhi) (0.08/2) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 82.6%)
    Player Comment T57: Warrior 5 kills Barb Archer @ 82.66% odds!
    Player Comment T57: Warrior 2 moves back to Vijay.
    A Quarry was built near Delhi


    Some screen shots attached.
     
  19. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    7,613
    Location:
    47.48N 117.77W
    The roster order on 02/13

    Conquistador63 = waiting
    Ronnie1 = waiting
    sleepless = waiting
    McArine = waiting
    adrianj = waiting
    Grifftavian = just played
    mc-red = UP NOW
    Ozbenno = on deck
    da_Vinci = in the hole

    Let's have a look see!

    I fear we will be worst enemy of everyone(all Buddhist Toku's) soon after we meet them. We may get lucky if the religion founder switches religions. This may actually be a reason to try and build the Hindu shrine. We may get enough spread to actually have an AI convert to Hinduism. Doubtful, but possible.
     
  20. adrianj

    adrianj Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,054
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Thank goodness for Copper :) I'll give you full credit for finding it Griff :cool:

    What to do with it? Continue the peaceful play up to Theology + CoL, safe in the knowledge we have decent units if we are attacked? Or plan a preemptive strike on one of our enemies?

    It is possible that the founding of Judaism was actually someone discovering Meditation, rather than Monotheism. Does the save indicate which of Medi or Mono still give a religion?
     

Share This Page