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SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    I got the save! :D

    One important info: our map has 1784 land tiles, and we'd need to grab 60% of that or 1070 tiles to reach the Domination limit. Which mapscripts generate such a high tile count? Unless it is a land-based map as Oasis or Highlands (unlikely given the game's theme and initial storytelling), I suspect it is Terra, and possibly we start in the New World!

    Another intriguing screenshot: Demographics. Although there are 8 rival AIs, this screen says we're #10 in every criteria. :confused: Maybe 2 AI are teamed up?

    Civ4ScreenShot0127.JPG
    I re-read the thread trying to assess each team member's current opinion on initial move for warrior and settling options:

    Ronnie1 = warrior NE; settle stone?
    sleepless = warrior SE; SIP or 1E
    McArine = warrior NE, stone
    adrianj = stone or marble
    Grifftavian = warrior 1NE or 1SW
    mc-red = warrior 1NE
    Ozbenno = ?
    da_Vinci = ?

    While I agree with sleepless' view on SIP for a strong hammer capital, I think it has too little food to work all those mines, assuming we will cottage the grass tiles for the Bureau :commerce: bonus. Therefore I'd like to move warrior 1W to check for more food there. If not, settling 1E to gain the FP's extra :food: or maybe one of the quarry resources would be my preference.
     
  2. adrianj

    adrianj Deity

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    In my earlier post I did forget to consider the resources available for a SIP capital. They are:
    +0:food:,16:hammers: at size 5. Any extra :hammers: beyond that would require more farms. I don't particularly like this option.

    My opinion is still that we choose marble or stone. I think the scouting move should help us rule out if settling 1E, 1S or SIP is good, eg, if these options had an extra corn or other nice resource then I'd certainly change my mind.

    Moving warrior 1W would reveal more tiles for SIP and 1S but doesn't help with 1E. moving warrior east (either NE or SE) would reveal tiles for all the options.

    Also, does it look like there is ice under the fog in the northeast corner? If so, then maybe stone isn't so great.
     
  3. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    I definitely DO NOT see ice in the actual save. It looks like the grey you get from hill overflow IMO. You can see the same thing in the south.

    As I said before, the river is definitely visible in the NE corner of the NE forest running east and N/NW.

    Here is my best guess
     
  4. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    The reason I really like settling either quarry resource is the immediate boost to early worker/settler production. Faster early cities = faster victory in every category!

    EDIT: Decisions....I guess we need to decide where to move that warrior as C63 summarized. If we don't come to some sort of consensus, I am all for letting C63 move it where he wants!
     
  5. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    What are the odds that the Barbarian City is the Buddhist Holy City?
     
  6. McArine

    McArine King

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    Atm. I'm in favor of moving the warrior 1NE.
    This is because I lean toward settling on stone, for early pyramids, and as Ronnie1 points out, faster early cities. And moving 1NE will reveal what other resources are available for the stone city.
     
  7. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    I fired up a random game with 9 AI, 2 teamed up, and the result was same as the real save. 8 rivals, and 10 civs in demographics screen.
    I believe the prebuilt shrine (faster spread of buddhism) is supposed to make the AP victory even harder. If it was put in a barb city I think that religion wouldn't be able to spread.

    edit:
    if after warrior 1NE we find only grass tiles as per Ron's fog gazing, would we still move settler to the stone? If yes, it would make more sense to me to move warrior W to check if we are neglecting some important stuff (as a possible 2nd corn as mentioned by mc-red) in that area.
     
  8. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    I just read this in the maintenance thread. This probably means that there is at least 1 team of 2, making our #10 ranking make more sense "I think".

    EDIT:X-posted with C63.

    As for the warrior move west. I always have a hard time deciding if I should look "for something", or to rule "something out". I will go with consensus or C63 as I already stated. IMO, he is the best "singles" player we have, and I trust his judgement.
     
  9. Sleepless

    Sleepless Deity

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    Though it doesn't matter to much it will also cost us 15 gold by not settling on turn 1. ( for the cap and 6 waiting till our borders pop so we can work a 3f 1g tile whether the fp or corn).

    I suppose my main worry with settling the stone/marble is the fact that unless we are willing to move again we could end up with a pretty bad capital. Without the requirement of founding hindu we could afford a couple of turns if needed to move around but a bit more restrictive with that.

    So I vote move warrior 1NE and see what he shows.
     
  10. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    I followed what seemed to be the consensus and moved warrior 1NE.

    Civ4ScreenShot0128.JPG

    I think we should settle 1E on t0, start building a worker and tech Poly.
     
  11. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    :agree: Deer on a Grass Hill with a Camp would give us a 4 :food:/2 :hammers: tile to work! That should be sufficient to make Hunting the tech to research after Poly, wouldn't it?
     
  12. Sleepless

    Sleepless Deity

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    Agreed though we need to pop hunting into the tech plan somewhere as well. Also everyone remember not to chop the forest on the deer tile.. ;)

    Edit for the extra food/coin Agr should be in front of hunt imho.
     
  13. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    When the deer is camped, it will provide a coin also. I still like Ag 1st as a 6 food tile is better than a 4 food tile early in the game.

    I agree 1E looks really great now!
     
  14. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    The Camp will not remove the Forest on the Deer Hill, so I don't believe we will get the :commerce: for being riverside.

    Since we're researching Poly first, our Fast Worker will be built before our second tech is learned. All he'll be able to do initially is build mines, so IMO he should mine the riverside GH 1E of the Marble first. That being the case, researching Agriculture as the second tech would allow our Fast Worker to move & improve the Corn on the same turn, if we learned Ag by the time the FW was finished building the Mine. The FW could move from the riverside GH Mine to the Deer Hill in 1 turn, but couldn't start building a Camp until the following turn.

    At the start, it costs ~30 :science: less to research Hunting vs. Agriculture, but that may change if there are AI Civs who do not start will Hunting or Agriculture, but research either while we are researching Poly. However, having the 6 :food: Corn Farm would be a big help in building Settlers faster, so Agriculture second is the better choice.

    So I'll amend my earlier question to "Where should we work Hunting into the tech path?"
     
  15. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    Why not mine the marble or stone instead? That will be a better tile until we get a chance to learn Masonry.

    You are right about the camp not providing a riverside coin. :(
    I always thought any riverside improvement gave the coin, bummer.
     
  16. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    Never occured to me to mine one of the Quarry resources. :blush: Old habit of not wanting to improve a tile twice if I don't have to, I guess.

    So, a 5 :hammers:/1 :commerce: tile vs. a 1 :food:/3 :hammers:/1 :commerce: tile. We'll have enough food to work both an unimproved Corn/Flood Plain and a Mined Quarry resource at size 2, so mining one of the Quarry resources is a better choice. I don't guess it matters which one we mine; I'd vote for mining the Marble since the Warrior can move onto the Stone next to defog northern tiles, and the Fast Worker would defog southern tiles my mining the Marble.

    The only reason I can think of to mine the riverside grass hill is the small chance of discovering Gems/Gold/Silver from the mine. I'm not sure how many turns the mine has to be in place before the game mechanics might try and determine that small chance.
     
  17. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    I've created a new Test Game (attached).

    This is a Terra map Script with Tropical Climate & Low Sea Level. It has 1784 land tiles. We were washed up in the New World, so an isolated start. 9 AI Civs with two teamed, so we have 8 rivals; all foreign capitols founded, so we're 10th in all demographics. One AI Civ Capitol is the Buddhist Holy City, and has the Buddhist Shrine. The evil Vikings who ship wrecked us in the New World are led by Napoleon (I picked the Vikings as an opponent, but left all leaders Random, and that's who the Vikings were stuck with). Starting area is correct, and I've added what the Warrior moving 1NE revealed, but the Warrior hasn't been moved in the attached Test Game, so he should be moved 1 NE if you decide to use this game for testing.
     
  18. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    After I get the green light to play, I think a good end of turnset is after we found Hindu. By then hopefully enough surroundings are revealed to choose the best next tech.
     
  19. adrianj

    adrianj Deity

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    I'm on board with settling 1E, the deer tile looks great :)

    Isn't Hunting a cheaper tech than Agriculture? So if we took Hunting as #2 tech we might get the deer tile up and running faster, not to mention the camp improvement is also cheaper in terms of worker turns than a farm.

    What's better for the worker to do in the meantime? A 0:food:,5:hammers:,1:commerce: tile is pretty nice, but would we work it in favour of a 1:food:,3:hammers:,1:commerce: tile like a riverside grass mine? If we choose to mine the stone or marble, make it the stone, as then the worker can reach the deer one turn earlier after the mine is complete. (Unless we choose Agri first of course, in which case it doesn't matter which).

    None of this affects the turnset up until Poly, so I'm happy for C63 to continue.

    Do we care about meddling with the Results page graphs by uploading on some other turn? I don't think it matters at all, since the turn we learn poly can be figured out from the culture graph in any case.
     
  20. adrianj

    adrianj Deity

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    Nice work with the test game Griff.

    If we truly are isolated, another good reason to go for the cultural game. I think we should try quite hard to found our own religions, possibly at the expense of early development. Maybe even Masonry->Monotheism before BW?

    Regarding the Buddhist shrine already built, and the AI capitals also built... what if ALL of the AIs already have Buddhism added to their cities? Demographics should help us see if they are earning extra culture.

    @C63 - don't forget to take demographics screenshots each turn.
     

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