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SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    @C63....good to go by me!
     
  2. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    I started to play. Adrianj is right about all capitals having buddhism. F7 shows buddhist influence in 90% of the world.

    More to follow briefly.
     
  3. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    Save is uploaded.

    Our valiant warrior made a counter-clockwise scouting trip starting from the stone tile.
    He discovered a coastline to our west and south, facing another landmass.

    During this trip he was attacked by a wolf. He had some minor injuries (1.8 out of 2.0 health) and the coastal trip was safe so he haven't stopped to heal yet, can do next turn inside our borders before venturing east.

    Meanwhile, we were met by a scout from Tokugawa of the Japanese - buddhist but not its founder. It came from the east.

    I stopped the turn before we'll found Hindu, so it might cast some shadows in our game progress as adrianj suggested. In this same turn our fast worker will be completed.

    Upload log:
    Spoiler :
    Here is your Session Turn Log from 4000 BC to 3520 BC:

    Turn 0, 4000 BC: Delhi has been founded.

    Turn 4, 3840 BC: The borders of Delhi have expanded!

    Turn 7, 3720 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (1.00) vs Gandhi's Warrior (3.20)
    Turn 7, 3720 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
    Turn 7, 3720 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
    Turn 7, 3720 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
    Turn 7, 3720 BC: Gandhi's Warrior is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
    Turn 7, 3720 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 34 (66/100HP)
    Turn 7, 3720 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 34 (32/100HP)
    Turn 7, 3720 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 34 (0/100HP)
    Turn 7, 3720 BC: Gandhi's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!


    Autolog:
    Spoiler :
    Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
    ------------------------------------------------
    Turn 0/500 (4000 BC) [22-Jan-2012 18:48:51]
    Delhi founded
    Delhi begins: Fast Worker (15 turns)
    Research begun: Polytheism (13 Turns)
    100% Research: 10 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 1/500 (3960 BC) [22-Jan-2012 18:55:33]
    100% Research: 10 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 2/500 (3920 BC) [22-Jan-2012 18:56:59]
    100% Research: 10 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 3/500 (3880 BC) [22-Jan-2012 18:58:04]
    100% Research: 10 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    Player contact made: Tokugawa of Japan

    Turn 4/500 (3840 BC) [22-Jan-2012 19:00:26]
    100% Research: 10 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    After End Turn:
    Delhi's borders expand

    Turn 5/500 (3800 BC) [22-Jan-2012 19:05:00]
    100% Research: 9 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 6/500 (3760 BC) [22-Jan-2012 19:06:45]
    100% Research: 9 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 7/500 (3720 BC) [22-Jan-2012 19:07:32]
    100% Research: 9 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    After End Turn:

    Other Player Actions:
    While defending in the wild, Warrior (1.78/2) defeats Barbarian Wolf (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

    Turn 8/500 (3680 BC) [22-Jan-2012 19:08:53]
    100% Research: 9 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 9/500 (3640 BC) [22-Jan-2012 19:10:16]
    100% Research: 9 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 10/500 (3600 BC) [22-Jan-2012 19:10:49]
    100% Research: 9 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

    Turn 11/500 (3560 BC) [22-Jan-2012 19:11:33]
    100% Research: 9 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank


    Screenshots next post.
     
  4. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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  5. adrianj

    adrianj Deity

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    Good start. We haven't lost the game :dance:

    Would be worthwhile to actually find Toku's borders to confirm the mapmaker didn't just put a lone scout on our otherwise unpopulated landmass. Though the simple explanation is that we aren't alone.

    How many turns to learn hunting as opposed to agri? How much earlier could we build mine+camp compared to mine+farm?
     
  6. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    The roster order is

    Conquistador63 = just played
    Ronnie1 = UP NOW
    sleepless = on deck
    McArine = in the hole
    adrianj = waiting
    Grifftavian = waiting
    mc-red = waiting
    Ozbenno = waiting
    da_Vinci = waiting

    I have the save.

    Ag is 9 turns
    Hunting is 6 turns

    Is that a significant enough difference to go Hunting 1st? That is 3 turns sooner to having 1 improved tile.

    I assume we will go warrior next while working a 3 food tile. Do we want to mine the grass hill for the extra food, or mine the stone for the extra 2 hammers?
     
  7. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Hi, sorry for being out of the loop, had an insane weekend.

    Start looks good, plenty of good sites. My feeling that AP victory would be hard is re-inforced even more by everyone being Buddhist, diplo will be interesting. We may never even get the chance to OB with Tokogawa!

    I think the question aj raises is the right one, what is faster mine/camp or mine farm?
     
  8. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    I am going to do some play testing before I play the next set. Would love to get some other people testing different ideas as well, in hopes of flushing out some options that may otherwise go unnoticed.
     
  9. adrianj

    adrianj Deity

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    I agree with play testing out some options now. We need some specific short term goals so we can make meaningful comparisons, for example, how soon can we get an escorted settler out? An idea of slightly longer term is also good to know, eg, do we tech toward BW, Priesthood (oracle), Masonry (mids), etc.

    A 'typical' tech path, at least for me, would be worker techs like agri and hunting, followed by BW for slavery and chopping. Do we have a desire to deviate from this, or re-order them? If our city gets plenty of production from working high hammer tiles, would we even need the whip?
     
  10. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    Everyone else is Buddhist! :eek: Did I hear somebody say "never trust the map maker"? :mischief:

    Toku of Japan!?!? Game set-up said Unrestricted Leaders, so apparently some have their normal Leaders and some don't?

    We're apparently not isolated in the New World, but I suppose it could still be a Terra Map, and we've washed up on a smaller continent with one or more AI Civs. What are the chances we've washed up on a smaller continent has has the two teamed-up AI Civs? And what are the chances that one of those two is the Buddhist Founder?

    My Test 2 game doesn't have everyone Buddhist. Easy to change that, but it doesn't have Toku/Japan either, that would take a little more work to correct. It could still be used for testing out the next few turns without too much deviation from actual, because I believe everything in Delhi's BFC is correct. Lots of changes to make with the new territory revealed, so it may be best to start on a new test game. Got a second best guess on the map script if you don't still think it is Terra?

    I haven't downloaded the new actual save to check, but wouldn't the Warrior(s) be completed in fewer turns by working the 2F/2H Deer Hill? I know it will slow growth a little bit vs. working a 3F tile, but with Buddhist Toku nearby and Aggressive AI as a game option, we may want/need to have a few extra Warriors on hand just in case.

    With the negative different religion attitude modifier beginning next turn, and the Aggressive AI option set, it won't be too long before Toku hates us. Anyone know the game mechanics well enough to determine how likely Toku is to DOW on us?
     
  11. adrianj

    adrianj Deity

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    I think the AI needs to be able to build at least two offensive units before considering war. Check the post by DanF linked in my signature. It is very likely we will end up as everyone's worst enemy in this game, unless we spread our religion diligently.

    Toku isn't in a team, or we would have contact with his partner.
     
  12. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    Thanks for the efforts on the test games Griff...unfortunately they are both on Monarch level, I couldn't figure out why I was having trouble sinking up with the real save at T12.

    I am working on another currently.

    EDIT: I am having trouble setting up a 2 AI team...I know I have done it before, but can't seem to figure it out now. :(
    Can anyone help?
     
  13. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    Oops! Sorry about the difficulty level :blush: easy enough to correct. I've been working on some minor changes to my second test game (everyone Buddhist and adding Toku/Japan to our continent). I'll change the difficulty level and have it up shortly!

    Team games are not valid for HOF submissions, so the BUFFY-3.19.003 Mod will not let you create them. You have to create a Custom Game with unmodified BTS (which will let you make teams), make any terrain changes with WorldBuilder, and create a WorldBuilder save before exiting WorldBuilder. Then start BTS with the BUFFY Mod, select Play a Scenario, and select the WorldBuilder save you just created. Save it right away to create a 4000 BC starting save that requires BUFFY.
     
  14. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    OK, attached is an updated Test 2A game with everyone Buddhist, and Toku on our continent and nearby! And it's at Emperor Difficulty level. However, the terrain has not been modified from the Test 2 game to correspond with the additional terrain revealed by C63 during his turn set. That will have to wait until tomorrow.

    {DELETED}
     
  15. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    A tech path of Hunting > AG next can gets us a settler walking with an escort on T34, assuming our starting warrior is still alive, we would have 2 warriors at that point. Builds were warrior > settler after the worker.

    Improvements were riverside grass hill mine > camp > partial mine on Stone > Corn farm
     
  16. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    Just realized that since my test games were originally created at Monarch Difficulty, all the AIs have Monarch level units (2 Archers or Archer/Scout if they started with Hunting; Settler was removed since all Capitols pre-founded). So need to figure out what their Emperor level allotment of units should be and add those in. :cry:
     
  17. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    AG > Hunting also gets a settler walking on T34...with an extra improvement(mine) completed.
     
  18. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    2 Archers + 2 Scouts
     
  19. mc-red

    mc-red King

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    Ronnie and Grifftavian
    I can do some testing tonight when i get home so let me know if there is a specific scenario you want done.

    EDIT:
    Soliders
    I think that 5 CIVs with 24,000 soldiers and 4 civs with 20,000 is consistent with Japan being in game and the starting demographics screen -- 5 civs with 24,000 and 4 with 20,000.=> 5 with (mining + hunting, wheel + agri, Fishing+wheel), 4 with none of mining/hunting/wheel.
    Also, I assume that starting techs have not been altered by map maker. If not then civs like Arabia and Byzantines are out (wheel+myst)
    Charismatics
    Also, I think no Charismatic civs in this game either and if someone popped borders early (they will all have the +1 from budhism and one will have +5 with shrine) then that would indicate how many creatives we have.
    Early Theology
    The civ with shrine will immediately be accumulating GPP as well for an early Great Prophet. So we may have a very early Theology bulb.

    Edit2:
    Just played with numbers and it seems one more civ with 24,000 than those with 20,000 will always work as long as the remaining civs have 22,000 soldiers ie starting with one of mining and hunting (there would have to be an even number of such civs).
     
  20. mc-red

    mc-red King

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    Just looking at the starting demographics again the civ with the shrine has 37 GNP which is 18 more than the lowest AI. IF it gets 4 more culture from shrine and 9 gold from shrine. It is still getting 5 GNP more than the lowest AI. Assuming the bottom AI in GNP has only one commerce from the City center. This AI is getting 5 extra commerce from it's city center and one tile. Even if settled on say wine I think this means it is a financial civ. Maybe Pacal/Capac?

    EDIT: Coastal Starts for 2 or 3 CIVS?
    Just noticed only two AI's have a coastal start. One possibly is Toku (japan starts with fishing) and so we might not see many early workboats for contact and early trade networks for religion spread. (Assuming following starting land tile counts: 6*9, 2*6, 1*8, last being a lake rather than one coast tile)
    Also shrine civ could be creative (although I doubt it, as this needs too many things to be true for it to be the likely case, which we can infer from border pops anyway)
     

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