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SGOTM 15 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession GOTM' started by AlanH, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    Assorted comments:

    . mapscript new guessing: Ice Age (with low sea level) is another possibility (84*36=3024 tiles with some water mixed in). I'd need to generate a few of those to check.

    . as you can notice in the latest screenie, our espionage ratio to Toku is (we)32/(him)45. I believe this is a good hint he hasn't met anyone else, however the fact he's spending more than 4 ept surprised me.

    . settling options: while there are 2 ok coastal sites (pigs/gems & banana/crabs), they are probably safe to be settled later. We should try to settle towards the East.

    . diplomacy and war: I don't think we have a chance to stay in good terms with Toku. Therefore I am all for trying a worker steal and choking him until we can attack his cities.
     
  2. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    I have absolutely no evidence, but as I said before, I am betting against any civs that start with Mysticism. That would rule out.....

    Celts
    India(Asoka)
    HRE
    Inca
    Spain
    Byzantine
    Maya
    Aztec
    Arabia
    Korea

    The normal leaders of these civs can still be around of course. In fact, I would bet on a number of the normal psycho's being in an Aggressive AI game.

    I really like the idea of knee capping Japan early. Early HBR if we have ponies would be a great option IMO.
     
  3. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    Hunting 1st and mining a quarry resource 1st gets a settler walking on T33.
     
  4. mc-red

    mc-red King

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    Mali, and Mongolia are also out.

    @Ronnie
    Also, I want to make sure you guys are ok with me on the team. I signed up for this team as I was a former Chokonuts member, but if you think the team is too big and unweildly or you have a good groove with existing squad I am happy just to lurk for the remainder of the game.
     
  5. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    AG 1st I can't seem to get a settler walking before T34.

    If our next goal is to get a settler out ASAP, then Hunting next is the choice I believe.
     
  6. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    You are totally welcome here mc-red!

    Why are Mongolia and Mali out???they don't start with Mysticism.
     
  7. mc-red

    mc-red King

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    Thanks Ronnie but I would have understood completely if that were the case don't want to be a third wheel.

    Mongolia is hunting+wheel which is out as there will be more soldiers for them on demo screen than the maximum and mali have skirmishers+wheel+mining which also will give too many soldiers.

    On an agressive start makes sense to me given what we know so far. I am worried we may be in danger of being on the wrong end of a religous victory as if Budhism spreads to us and there is a budhist love fest and an early theology bulb (shrine prophet) we would be in trouble. Especially, if it is Capac who has the shrine which for reasons I gave earlier I think is a big possibility.

    Seems to me we have to control AP.
     
  8. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    ^Very good point.
    We will eventually need to capture an AI capital with buddhism, and with no city razing, a window to AP win if it is in hands of an AI is a clear danger.

    One possible goal for us to simulate would be to get Theo from Oracle ASAP.
    Besides basic worker techs (Agri+Hunt), we just need the pre-reqs Masonry and AH (also useful as worker techs) + PH/Writing/Mono.
     
  9. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    Easier said than done! No city razing makes it even harder. Every city we capture is one more chance we end up with Buddhism in our civ. We would have to capture the AP, but even then, we would never be voted as resident given that we only get "1/2" the vote of the full members who are Buddhist. This is a very interesting setup for sure.
     
  10. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    I agree completely...we need to look very closely at building the AP ourselves ASAP.

    The tech tree shows only needing PH > Mono > Masonry > Writing > Theology......no other techs "required"

    So really we only need to research the first 4 and take Theology from the Oracle.
     
  11. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    :agree: Glad to have you on board!

    Agree with this! We will have Marble for seeding up building The Oracle, could build it and take Theology as the free tech. That would mean we need to know Monotheism before The Oracle is completed, which gives us a good chance of founding both Judaism and Christianity, which would help with trying for a Cultural Victory. Would need to start building AP in our best production city as soon as we learn Theology.

    EDIT: X-Post with C63 & R1
     
  12. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    If it is THE HIGHEST priority, we could skip Hunting altogether.

    Tech path from T12(now) would be AG > PH > Monotheism > Writing and we could wait to expand until after the Oracle is completed.
     
  13. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    Good point. I thought we'd need either AH or Pottery as alternative prereqs to Writing, but did not remember PH would serve that purpose as well. I'm not sure how much of a risk would we be facing by inserting it into the tech queue.

    What is a safe date for Oracle in Emperor/9AI? In a recent Emperor BOTM I played one AI built it around 1900BC! :eek:

    Without AH: a faster Oracle
    With AH: we might locate horses in BFC or in a possible 2nd city site, also will need it soon for pigs/gems city. The Wheel would also be required to actually build chariots, though.

    Edit: The wheel would help if we want to build Oracle with marble connected.
    Edit: the above is wrong, marble will be autoconnected by the river :blush:
     
  14. adrianj

    adrianj Deity

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    Great discussion going on. Nice work with the demographics mc-red. My Internet connection has been handicapped, only have smart phone for reading/writing on forum so can't open demo screenshots.
     
  15. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    The more I think about it, the more it seems we really need to make building the AP a VERY HIGH priority. We may not even have time to get a settler out before starting the Oracle. The reason I think this is because of the need to fog bust for barbs. We will need 5-6 warriors I would think at the minimum if we want to bust effectively. Alternatively, a city helps bust as well, but then needs to be protected also.

    Ideally we could get a settler out and all the warriors we need.
     
  16. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    An alternative to be considered/tested is to build SH, and possibly a (cheap - we're SPI) hindu temple so we can hire a priest, to get a fast GProphet (we're PHI) to bulb Theo.

    We can start SH anytime we want now, so it might make up for the time required to complete the GPP for the GP.

    Also, it would be interesting and faithful to real history if buddhist founder/spreader was Asoka - see wikipedia. :)
     
  17. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

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    I am "ready" to play anytime.

    I think we have MUCH to consider before I do play however. I think we need to explore a lot of options at this point and be very sure about our short term goals.

    How long running a single Priest does it take to generate a GProhet. 100/6 = 17 turns
    Add in 2 GPP from SH (doubled to 4 for Philo) and it gets much quicker.

    Do we go Mono after Ag to try and dissuade the AI even going for Theology?

    With SH and Oracle in Delhi, would we consider going CoL from Oracle and using the GProphet on Theology or does getting CoL open CS for the GP?
     
  18. adrianj

    adrianj Deity

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    I think hold off on the playing for a while longer Ron.

    Regarding turn 0 demographics. Mcred, where do you get your numbers for the power ratings?

    Best GNP could be Buddhist founder with shrine. This could generate 4:espionage:, 9:gold:, 11:culture:, 10:science:. The science gets one added, and possibly researching tier two tech for total science of 13. 4+9+11+13=37. Also possible they are CRE researching a tier 1 tech.

    Worst GNP could be the minimum of 4:espionage:, 3:culture:, 9:science: researching tier 2 tech for total 4+3+12=19. Or a CRE civ researching tier 1 tech.

    What turns did we see border expansions? This might show us if we have SPI or CRE civs. Do emperor level AI experience revolt when changing religion?
     
  19. Grifftavian

    Grifftavian Emperor

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    I think that may be a good possibility. Toku is in the game; I looked him up in the Civilopedia, and noticed his Favorite Religion was Buddhism. A quick check of the Civilopedia shows the following Leaders have Buddhism as their Favorite Religion...
    1. Asoka (Spiritual/Organized)
    2. Kublai Khan (Aggressive/Creative)
    3. Suryavarman II (Expansive/Creative)
    4. Tokugawa (Aggressive/Protective)
    I'm thinking all four will be in our game.

    BTW, F8 Settings screen says we have a Tropical Climate, so Ice Age Map Script can't be it, since it doesn't have an option to set the Climate. I generated a test map with all the map scripts that allowed setting the Climate to Tropcial, and Terra was the only one that came in anywhere close to 1784 land tiles (could actually generate maps with 1800+ land tiles). So unless they added a significant amount of land with WorldBuilder, Terra is probably the map script that was used for SGOTM 15.
     
  20. Conquistador 63

    Conquistador 63 Deity

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    Just to clarify, when I said we could start building SH anytime I meant instead of building a warrior for instance after the worker, not that we were ready to continue. :)

    @adrianj: t1 we had an AI with 21 land (border pop), but that would happen regardless of him being CRE (5 reli + 4shrine + 2palace).
    Rival AVG/MAX/MIN land:
    t0 8222/9k/6k
    t1 9555/21k/6k
    t2 9555/21k/6k
    t3 11888/21k/6k
    t4 18111/21k/13k

    Unless SPI (or pre-set at start:crazyeye:) they do enter into revolt to change religion.
     

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